Rebuild has hit a snag

[maxta]

I was happy to buy into a rebuild the past 2 years and in fact, at times, felt the team could match the best after some odd performances.
2018 I feel a decline, key players have not stepped up and the squad seems to have a few players who would struggle to get a gig elsewhere, yet we are having salary cap issues.
Plenty of excuses about injuries, refs and the weather, but the fact is - this does not seem a team on the rise at this time.
The motivation is low and the team lacks leadership and cohesion.
Is this really a rebuild, as a positive bloke who loves an underdog story, are we simply expecting too much with the squad and coaching staff we have?
Is this part of the rebuild or are we still on the decline?

 

[BOZO]

You touched on two major points in leadership and cohesion . No team can lay any winning foundations without those two points no matter how strong a playing roster they have .

 

[highlandeagle]

You touched on two major points in leadership and cohesion . No team can lay any winning foundations without those two points no matter how strong a playing roster they have .

Penn,Barrett ,Cartwright and DCE are not leaders and are all unrespectable.

 

[Harvies elbow]

What concerns me is we are not maturing as a team.
We are still making school boy mistakes along with poor discipline.
I keep comparing our roster with the tigpies and the injury riddled riff because there is not much difference in alleged quality.
But we are making the same blues we did 2 years ago and our patterns sometimes appear clueless, especially in the oppositions zone, we haven't moved on.
Sadly in addition, other than against the bonkos and scum, we don't seem motivated.
I'm losing patience.

 

[Budgie]

I'm just not sure how the rebuild would ever have worked. The architect, Bozo, seemed to work independently of the coach and yet, interfered to the point that Siebold walked away. The architect may well have been a little careless with the NRL salary cap rules. The architect recruited a hack who is now traveling the world on our salary cap. The architect then walked away, leaving the rookie builder with no plans.
Not really a rebuild.

 

[jbb/james]

My suspicion watching " the decline" is 3 fold
The first being we got a bit lucky last year.the team was pumped, stewart had gone, the place was settled and we gad some good moments. Blake green had a brain and got us posssion and built pressure. He is the on field difference

But my main area of concern is barret, cherry and the team.

Ive played many team sports and had many jobs. What i know for certain is that nothing is worse in a group or an organisation is someone who is frivilous with someone elses hard yakka. It causes dissent. Cherry gifts the opposition field position that the forwards work for. Ive read some comments that the forwards are not doing the job which is rubbish. All forwards only have so much gas, and our forwards use theres defending and retreating due to the worst kicking game in 25 years.. It is the playmakers role to get these forward to use there skills for good , not just defence.

Cherry has one gear, attack. When the team has plenty of ball which we have to rely on the refs giving us as we do nothing to earn extra ball.

Barret constantly talks up cherry aand i dont see this being relatively healthy. Just like brett stewats last season which reeked of poor attitude and preffered to throw the ball into touch than take a tackle. I would have put him in reggies just like i would put cherry there

No one is ever aboove being dropped due to past experiences. . I honestly just dont get why this guy just doesnt understand what it takes to win footy games. He just does not get it.

I know there are plenty who believe different. Good for you. I don't

May as well pay ben barba 500k to be the halfback. Apart from defence you get the same outcome

Something to consider. The games we look good in , really good always go like this

We get a few early penalties, gifts us field position. We score, get the ball vack, attack attack attack, score again, get the ball back. But hiw many of us are truly comfortable when this team gets a 20 point lead. We all know deep down unkees we score 50 this game will be close as soon as they get a swing because we have absolutely nothing in the arsenel to fight back with

I like barret, think he will be a good coach, not after his head but i reckon he will become a better coach when he leaves manly. He looks to be a bit to matey matey with the guys which makes the tough calls difficult. I expect he will learn from taht and distance himself somewhat if he gets another gig

Its obvious that brown, winterstein and perret are getting less and less game time so when he has options he gets it but............. I beleive he is probably inadverantly causing the team harm by trying to continually pump up cherrys tyres as just like us he knows everyting is on his shoulders. And cherry obviously wanted it that way. No one thinks they can negotiate a contract of his size to play second fiddle to someone on a quater of his wage.

Its lunacy and if he still has that attitude put him on the wing.

 

[manly al]

Think that the recruitment outcomes and in particular the improvement in guys like A F B , Lane , Kelly, and Paseka has been really good and the addition of Thompson , Suli and Tanga should also provide ongoing benefits. . However apart from the injury issues and quite a few inconsistent team efforts , you just can not have your main play maker [ and highest paid player ] and some poorly structured game plans being so inconsistent and unsuited in so many games this year . After D C E :s over all top shelf season last year , he should certainly be able to do better , game plans can of course be improved and surely it is not beyond the capacities of some of the other established players to reach and maintain a better level of consistency . So no doubt the team has generally gone backwards this season but the present playing personal is more then capable of turning this around , just need the leadership and smarter coaching input and a better run with injuries to also play it"s part . Also admittedly some of the lower ranked sides from previous seasons have stepped up and improved this season which has made it a bit more competitive but that is still no excuse for this present Manly side to have gone into many matches this season down 10 or 15 per cent with their on field attitude and lack of leadership and some average coaching game plans . And no i do not think that it time for Barrett to go but just some more committed and improved outlook all round and then the side can continue to show some dividends on this recent rebuild .[ and until the salary cap can resolve itself , i would still go for a back line of halves , D C E and, Walker , and centres Kelly and Suli ]

 

[highlandeagle]

My suspicion watching " the decline" is 3 fold
The first being we got a bit lucky last year.the team was pumped, stewart had gone, the place was settled and we gad some good moments. Blake green had a brain and got us posssion and built pressure. He is the on field difference

But my main area of concern is barret, cherry and the team.

Ive played many team sports and had many jobs. What i know for certain is that nothing is worse in a group or an organisation is someone who is frivilous with someone elses hard yakka. It causes dissent. Cherry gifts the opposition field position that the forwards work for. Ive read some comments that the forwards are not doing the job which is rubbish. All forwards only have so much gas, and our forwards use theres defending and retreating due to the worst kicking game in 25 years.. It is the playmakers role to get these forward to use there skills for good , not just defence.

Cherry has one gear, attack. When the team has plenty of ball which we have to rely on the refs giving us as we do nothing to earn extra ball.

Barret constantly talks up cherry aand i dont see this being relatively healthy. Just like brett stewats last season which reeked of poor attitude and preffered to throw the ball into touch than take a tackle. I would have put him in reggies just like i would put cherry there

No one is ever aboove being dropped due to past experiences. . I honestly just dont get why this guy just doesnt understand what it takes to win footy games. He just does not get it.

I know there are plenty who believe different. Good for you. I don't

May as well pay ben barba 500k to be the halfback. Apart from defence you get the same outcome

Something to consider. The games we look good in , really good always go like this

We get a few early penalties, gifts us field position. We score, get the ball vack, attack attack attack, score again, get the ball back. But hiw many of us are truly comfortable when this team gets a 20 point lead. We all know deep down unkees we score 50 this game will be close as soon as they get a swing because we have absolutely nothing in the arsenel to fight back with

I like barret, think he will be a good coach, not after his head but i reckon he will become a better coach when he leaves manly. He looks to be a bit to matey matey with the guys which makes the tough calls difficult. I expect he will learn from taht and distance himself somewhat if he gets another gig

Its obvious that brown, winterstein and perret are getting less and less game time so when he has options he gets it but............. I beleive he is probably inadverantly causing the team harm by trying to continually pump up cherrys tyres as just like us he knows everyting is on his shoulders. And cherry obviously wanted it that way. No one thinks they can negotiate a contract of his size to play second fiddle to someone on a quater of his wage.

Its lunacy and if he still has that attitude put him on the wing.

Loved what you said up till the Barrett will be a good coach bit.

 

[sheridanstand78]

the injury toll from hell that the team has experienced this year is a major reason for teams lack of progress, I also think a major factor is that some players are in a comfort zone, knowing that they will not be dropped and that our depth that is under so much pressure is not up to it!!

I think its crazy that the team that won the Holden cup last year is not developing, we do not see their progress because Blacktown is not near our fan base and how are these kids going to improve until they play games at Brooky!!!

The reluctance to use certain players and signing players well passed their used by dates and relying on has beens is stunting the growth of the team and the coaching right now is conservative and the lack of creativity in the current team is really poor, one thing that Manly in their history have done is produce creative play, the fact is right now, we do not score from any kick and we continue not to deal with kicks and we inevitable concede points.

Last year Manly played without fear and had a real go, what I see far too often is sterile and anaemic performances and horrible consistent indiscipline!!!

 

[Ron E. Gibbs]

The worst thing that happened to us this year is flogging the eels by 50. Everyone thought how good (and easy) is this. We were superstars who just had to throw it around to put teams to the sword. You need to build a premiership campaign from the ground up, doing the dirty stuff that no one else notices, playing as a team, defending as a team through the tough times, then playing expansive once you have earned that right. After that game, I think everyone thought we were already at the summit, when in reality we had not even reached base camp.

I was also fearful when Cherry and others were interviewed after the win against the Donkeys and they all spoke about how the season was back on track, they'd turned it around, etc. I get that a lot of it was sheer relief, but I kept thinking to myself, "It's one win. You haven't turned anything around yet." Sure enough, three weeks and another two losses later, we manage to look worse than ever. The whole "flick a switch" idea, that what was bad can suddenly become good and stay that way, annoys the hell out of me. You have to keep working, you have to keep wanting to win, you have to get better. I don't see any of that happening with this team.

 

[Terry Zarsoff]

My suspicion watching " the decline" is 3 fold
The first being we got a bit lucky last year.the team was pumped, stewart had gone, the place was settled and we gad some good moments. Blake green had a brain and got us posssion and built pressure. He is the on field difference

But my main area of concern is barret, cherry and the team.

Ive played many team sports and had many jobs. What i know for certain is that nothing is worse in a group or an organisation is someone who is frivilous with someone elses hard yakka. It causes dissent. Cherry gifts the opposition field position that the forwards work for. Ive read some comments that the forwards are not doing the job which is rubbish. All forwards only have so much gas, and our forwards use theres defending and retreating due to the worst kicking game in 25 years.. It is the playmakers role to get these forward to use there skills for good , not just defence.

Cherry has one gear, attack. When the team has plenty of ball which we have to rely on the refs giving us as we do nothing to earn extra ball.

Barret constantly talks up cherry aand i dont see this being relatively healthy. Just like brett stewats last season which reeked of poor attitude and preffered to throw the ball into touch than take a tackle. I would have put him in reggies just like i would put cherry there

No one is ever aboove being dropped due to past experiences. . I honestly just dont get why this guy just doesnt understand what it takes to win footy games. He just does not get it.

I know there are plenty who believe different. Good for you. I don't

May as well pay ben barba 500k to be the halfback. Apart from defence you get the same outcome

Something to consider. The games we look good in , really good always go like this

We get a few early penalties, gifts us field position. We score, get the ball vack, attack attack attack, score again, get the ball back. But hiw many of us are truly comfortable when this team gets a 20 point lead. We all know deep down unkees we score 50 this game will be close as soon as they get a swing because we have absolutely nothing in the arsenel to fight back with

I like barret, think he will be a good coach, not after his head but i reckon he will become a better coach when he leaves manly. He looks to be a bit to matey matey with the guys which makes the tough calls difficult. I expect he will learn from taht and distance himself somewhat if he gets another gig

Its obvious that brown, winterstein and perret are getting less and less game time so when he has options he gets it but............. I beleive he is probably inadverantly causing the team harm by trying to continually pump up cherrys tyres as just like us he knows everyting is on his shoulders. And cherry obviously wanted it that way. No one thinks they can negotiate a contract of his size to play second fiddle to someone on a quater of his wage.

Its lunacy and if he still has that attitude put him on the wing.

Yes, since I read the article by Andrew Webster a few weeks back, I have a sense that Daly Two-Dads (DTD) is the de facto ruler. To placate him we signed Old Mate Nyles. Personally I think DTD is a terrific player, when surrounded by other good players, playing as a team.

There is not one onfield (apart from DTD himself) member of the club’s last great era involved in the footballing set up now, Menzies role notwithstanding.* Why?

*And apparently he isn’t being asked to help out with the team.

 

[brad]

Its like we need a 15 massive cleanout all over again , but as its proved its not always the best option. We need a face slapping hard arse coach to install the passion back into these blokes , and show pride in the jumper.

 

[BOZO]

Its like we meed a 15 massive cleanout all over again , but as its proved its not always the best option. We need a face slapping hard arse coach to install the passion back into these blokes , and show pride in the jumper.

We don't have the "D's" feathered friend , WTF am I talking about ? Please keep reading .......
We do have a roster with capable players who have the ability to perform better and to put in better efforts on a consistent basis
What we don't have is coaching staff to motivate them and inspire them with Direction and Drive .

 

[Chip and Chase]

At full strength I think the squad isn't too bad. We've been nailed by injuries this year which hasn't helped obviously. Anyway we have a few off contract this year and are hopefully in the market to recruit some hole fillers, salary cap "dramas" notwithstanding. I think we need the following to round out the squad

5/8 - goes without saying

Young winger / fullback - we need a big fast body to replace Uate. We also need depth to cover Tommy as M Wright tries hard but isn't the answer. I know people will try and shoe horn Great Wright Hope into this role, but I don't see it myself. I like Anderson and another year or two of development and I can see him being useful hopefully, I just think he is a little on the slight side physically to make an impact at NRL level. Wingers need to earn their money in hit ups and kick returns. Someone like Isaako is what I'm thinking

Impact backrower - a young dynamic backrower who can bend / break the line, if he has an offload even better. A middle third player that can get us over the ad line and get sets on a roll when we need a lift. I think our prop depth is looking Ok, but we our down on backrow cover.

The only other area we need to look at is bench utility, but I'm hoping Fainu keeps developing and gets a shot at that next year.

But the elephant in the room is the leadership issue - how do we solve that ?? DCE clearly isn't a leader. I don't know who in the current squad is to be honest - if I had to take a punt on someone I'd say Thompson - but with no real confidence, which ironically is probably our issue, no real confidence to dig deep and fight for games. We got spoilt in that decade of dominance because right across the park you had a wonderful mix of experience, calmness, toughness and passion. Anyone of 6 players could lift that side and lead the way, we struggle to find one these days. Maybe that's what we concentrate on for recruitment - a captain and a leader ?

 

[BOZO]

At full strength I think the squad isn't too bad. We've been nailed by injuries this year which hasn't helped obviously. Anyway we have a few off contract this year and are hopefully in the market to recruit some hole fillers, salary cap "dramas" notwithstanding. I think we need the following to round out the squad

5/8 - goes without saying

Young winger / fullback - we need a big fast body to replace Uate. We also need depth to cover Tommy as M Wright tries hard but isn't the answer. I know people will try and shoe horn Great Wright Hope into this role, but I don't see it myself. I like Anderson and another year or two of development and I can see him being useful hopefully, I just think he is a little on the slight side physically to make an impact at NRL level. Wingers need to earn their money in hit ups and kick returns. Someone like Isaako is what I'm thinking

Impact backrower - a young dynamic backrower who can bend / break the line, if he has an offload even better. A middle third player that can get us over the ad line and get sets on a roll when we need a lift. I think our prop depth is looking Ok, but we our down on backrow cover.

The only other area we need to look at is bench utility, but I'm hoping Fainu keeps developing and gets a shot at that next year.

But the elephant in the room is the leadership issue - how do we solve that ?? DCE clearly isn't a leader. I don't know who in the current squad is to be honest - if I had to take a punt on someone I'd say Thompson - but with no real confidence, which ironically is probably our issue, no real confidence to dig deep and fight for games. We got spoilt in that decade of dominance because right across the park you had a wonderful mix of experience, calmness, toughness and passion. Anyone of 6 players could lift that side and lead the way, we struggle to find one these days. Maybe that's what we concentrate on for recruitment - a captain and a leader ?

You have a valid point to question DCEs leadership . I also put a question mark on Trent's leadership as a coach has accountability as well in what direction a team is heading

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Penriths 5 year plan became about an 8 year plan and finally looks to be coming good.

I think one of the biggest problems that many of the Silvertailers have is that they became so used to success in the period 2007-2013 that many cant stomach a down period.

Do I like it myself, naturally I don’t but having been a supporter now for over 50 years there are many highs and many lows and I think I’m just more resilient than some others.

The **** times make the great times even greater.

 

[BOZO]

Penriths 5 year plan became about an 8 year plan and finally looks to be coming good.

I think one of the biggest problems that many of the Silvertailers have is that they became so used to success in the period 2007-2013 that many cant stomach a down period.

Do I like it myself, naturally I don’t but having been a supporter now for over 50 years there are many highs and many lows and I think I’m just more resilient than some others.

The **** times make the great times even greater.

I know what your saying but to put things in perspective if you go to the Panthers forum or any other teams forum and their team goes on a losing streak the fans go off !!!. Just because passionate fans express them selves passionately it does not mean they cant handle the highs and lows and they give up on their club . No one can question a passionate fans resilience feathered friend . Sorry I disagree because I am one of those fans that goes on a emotional roller coaster at every game and it takes me one week to recover after each loss but I bounce up again in time for our next match .

 

[pjayz]

I have always been a Barrett supporter; however, he is going to have to find something over the second half of the season otherwise he might be in a bit of bother.

 

[The mule]

S
A
C
K
B
A
R
R
E
T
T

That is all

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

S
A
C
K
B
A
R
R
E
T
T

That is all

Sack Barret and you’ll get Cartwright.

Not sure if that’s a great move