Preacher 'prepares' Costello

[Dan]

Preacher 'prepares' Costello

My Bachelor degree is proof that I spent three years snorkeling the pristine beaches of Magnetic Island.

I'm amused that Dan brings up the worst case scenario (rape/abuse) to justify his stance on abortion.

I'm personally not heated up about the issue - it would be very interesting to know if there are statistics on the demographic of women who avail themselves of the service. I suspect you'll find a lot of white collar professionals who see it as an expensive form of contraception.

I brought up many examples actually matas, you just took one of them.

I guess you don't know a whole lot about abortion matabele, but anyone who sees it in the liht in which you suggested above, is clearly not fit to have and raise children.

Someone I know had an abortion, she jsut wasnt ready for the child, the time wasn't right because of her age, she wasnt financial secure, she wasnt ature enough and on top of that the father was abusive.

Best option for all was to abort

 

[Matabele]

Preacher 'prepares' Costello

Someone I know had an abortion, she jsut wasnt ready for the child, the time wasn't right because of her age, she wasnt financial secure, she wasnt ature enough and on top of that the father was abusive.

Best option for all was to abort

Yeah, it does sound like she needs to get a bit smarter and less selfish before she has another person depending on her.

 

[Dan]

Preacher 'prepares' Costello

yeah true, exactly right so denying her the right to an abortion would help?

 

[Matabele]

Preacher 'prepares' Costello

I think both "sides" of the argument have strengths and weaknesses.

Though I somehow doubt that all of the supposed 100,000 abortions performed in Australia each year are unavoidable.

 

[Dan]

Preacher 'prepares' Costello

Ummm all abortions are unnavoidable, but there are in nearly all cases justifiable reasons

 

[Matabele]

Preacher 'prepares' Costello

Ummm all abortions are unnavoidable,

When did they become compulsory?

 

[Dan]

Preacher 'prepares' Costello

I meant aren't i.e. avoidable

 

[Matabele]

Preacher 'prepares' Costello

So an abortion that takes place to save the life of a mother is avoidable?

 

[The Gronk]

Preacher 'prepares' Costello

I dont think there are 100000 abortions a year. Sure that might e the number that goes through medicare, but tons of those would be miscarriages, stillborns etc. I am pretty sure when I heard Tony Abbott bleating on about 100000 abortions the AMA picked him up and said all of these things are included under the same medicare code.

 

[Narcissus]

Preacher 'prepares' Costello

Best option for all was to abort

Really? As far as I see it, in reality, the BEST option for her would have been to find a couple that was willing to pay for the baby. I'm just putting it out there... then she wouldn't have had to abort, another couple would have had the child they wanted and she would have had a WAD of cash under her belt.

 

[fLIP]

Preacher 'prepares' Costello

There are so many preventative options for pregnancy Dan. For you friend to say her best option was to kill her child because she had no money is a cop out.

 

[Matabele]

Preacher 'prepares' Costello

Maybe she had no money for pills and condoms too.

 

[Dan]

Preacher 'prepares' Costello

There are so many preventative options for pregnancy Dan. For you friend to say her best option was to kill her child because she had no money is a cop out.

No one said it was because of no money it was ONE of the factors.

She didnt "Kill her child" she stopped the process of cells multiplying!

Sure there are preventitive measures, but none are 100% effective, you should know that fLIP, one of nephews was conceived even though a condom was worn and she was on the pill. So it is more than naive to say the above

 

[Dan]

Preacher 'prepares' Costello

So an abortion that takes place to save the life of a mother is avoidable?

Yes its avoidable, you just choose not to have it and run the gauntlet.

You arguing for the sake of arguing now, that tends to say you are for abortions now, rather than against them as before.

Stay on track

 

[Narcissus]

Preacher 'prepares' Costello

She didnt \"Kill her child\" she stopped the process of cells multiplying!

Just out of curiosity Daniel: at what point, then, does a 'child' stop just being 'the process of cells multiplying'?

 

[Matabele]

Preacher 'prepares' Costello

Where did I say I was against them?

 

[fLIP]

Preacher 'prepares' Costello

Just out of curiosity Daniel: at what point, then, does a 'child' stop just being 'the process of cells multiplying'?

Exactly. The process of cell multiplication for growth doesn't stop until we die.

Dan, would you have liked to be aborted because of your parents situation? If you were born into a struggling family wouldn't you much rather have been not born at all?

 

[Matabele]

Preacher 'prepares' Costello

Exactly. The process of cell multiplication for growth doesn't stop until we die.

It's a fairly subjective point though - at what point are you "killing" something?

Some people say "conception" becuase there is then potential for life. This would include embryos that are used in research etc.

Others say a certain point in the gestation (eg when the heartbeat appears).

Others say not until it has left the womb and is therefore independant on the mother for breath.

Seems the majority of the medical profession has settled somewhere around 20 weeks of gestation, this being close to the point where a foetus has an outside chance of survival if it is born.

But then I know of some doctors that refuse to prescribe the morning after pill because it has the potential to abort a two cell embryo.

And my sister who was a midwife was involved in several occasions where a full-term baby was born with some kind of deformity and the doctors strangled it before presenting it to the mother as stillborn.

There's a fair range there for debate I would think.

 

[Dan]

Preacher 'prepares' Costello

Sure fLIP it doesnt stop until you die, but at the point to which i am referring, there is no brain, there are no lungs, there is nothing but a bunch of multiplying cells, nothing more and nothing less!

As for whether I would have liked to have been aborted, the obvious answer is no, but I have perspective, i have reasoning I have a brain and I have life.

An aborted fetus has none of those and does not even have a consciousness, it wouldnt know it was aborted and it would never have hindsight or foresight in the matter.

When you eat an egg, do you feel like you are killing a chicken?

Sure an egg is unfertilised but I hope you can read enough into it get my point

 

[fLIP]

Preacher 'prepares' Costello

Sure fLIP it doesnt stop until you die, but at the point to which i am referring, there is no brain, there are no lungs, there is nothing but a bunch of multiplying cells, nothing more and nothing less!

First of all, science cannot prove that the brain contains the conscience. At that stage the lungs are not needed, it has what it needs to survive at that point in time. As an evolutionist you will understand that.

As for whether I would have liked to have been aborted, the obvious answer is no, but I have perspective, i have reasoning I have a brain and I have life.

But according to you, you didn't have all those once either. Tell me, what was your first memory like when your heart started beating or your lungs fully developed. How about your first day at home, what was that like?

An aborted fetus has none of those and does not even have a consciousness, it wouldnt know it was aborted and it would never have hindsight or foresight in the matter.

Do you think you would know you were being murdered when you were a week old?

With regards to my previous point, until it can be proven where the conscience resides and originates from you cannot use that as a excuse for terminating a pregnancy.

You are defining consciousness by an organisms ability to live outside the womb when in every hosptial over the planet there a people in comas hooked up too life support who have no brain activity yet can still listen to converstations and have memory of them upon waking. Does that sound like a person who should die?

When you eat an egg, do you feel like you are killing a chicken?

Sure an egg is unfertilised but I hope you can read enough into it get my point

Thats a terrible comparison. As you pointed out an egg isn't fertilised and thus I wouldn't be killing anything. And no, I don't eat chicken fetus.