[Resurrected] Poll: Would you support a Full Time Move to Rat Park?

[The Who]

Jeeze. Easts don't get decent crowds to the SFS for most games.
If I'm a typical Manly supporter (I don;t live on the peninsula) our crowds at the SFS would be down 60%. I attend virtually all Brookvale matches, but would only go to 3-4 matches if we were playing at the SFS.

 

[Loobs]

What do y'all read into Joe Kelly's email about the game on Saturday and specifically:

"We anticipate Saturday’s event will be the start of a positive and fruitful relationship at the venue for all organisations over the years to come..."

 

[Ramrod]

Still prefer Brookie.
If it ever move away from the Northern Beaches, TV will be the permanent option and Allianz or whatever they want to call it will be fairly empty. Don't need to be a rocket scientist to work out that would never be accepted by majority of Manly fans.

 

[Shoe1]

What do y'all read into Joe Kelly's email about the game on Saturday and specifically:

"We anticipate Saturday’s event will be the start of a positive and fruitful relationship at the venue for all organisations over the years to come..."

I think he means we will play a trial there every feb for the next 5 years, while brookie gets resurfaced.

 

[Shoe1]

Jeeze. Easts don't get decent crowds to the SFS for most games.
If I'm a typical Manly supporter (I don;t live on the peninsula) our crowds at the SFS would be down 60%. I attend virtually all Brookvale matches, but would only go to 3-4 matches if we were playing at the SFS.

I note that easts have had at least 2 games per season for past 3 seasons with less than 10k supporters.

 

[Matabele]

One of the worst things you can do to a football club is strip it of it's rightful home;

Yes, because that's turned out so badly for Souths and the Bulldogs then, hasn't it?

 

[Technical Coach]

True we get about 2/3 at SFS for one off big games compared to brookie but they are finals games, which we essentially sell out brookie and the NRL have already moved.

That would be the best you could ask for as SFS, we would be fodder for the NRL with an average crowd of less than 10 thousand and no local home base.

Best case scenario following a move to the SFS would see us moving to Perth, worst case and most likely is to follow the bears

Big games will attract bigger crowds than at Brookie and the average games will start off smaller as people hate the change and eventually be the same in a few years.

Same thing happened in Victoria with AFL teams, same thing happened with Dogs and Souths.

The big games will more than compensate for the very low turn-outs eventually and attract a more broad demographic increasing Membership levels.

Obviously poor performing seasons crowds will be less than Brookie so don't have poor seasons lol.(Which Manly are not really known to do)

Either way the guaranteed return the big stadiums offer really means crowd numbers are not as big an issue as say at Brookie where it pays the rent of the ground it is more about increasing membership numbers.

In a perfect world we would all love to stay at Brookie but me personally not all that fussed as long as it is the SFS.

 

[Fluffy]

Why do people keep using the Vic AFL model, it is just stupidity.

Essendon and St Kilda are the 2 furthest away from the grounds. They are 6km away. The fans have always travelled to pretty clsoe anyway.

If we bring back Newtown, Annandale, Syd Uni, Glebe and Balmain as a stand alone it would be similar but we do not have that structure.

The SFS would not see and increase in Manly fans for big games, just other teams fans as we are playing at their home ground, im betting less than big games at Brookie. Goodbye home ground advantag.

 

[The Who]

Why do people keep using the Vic AFL model, it is just stupidity.

Essendon and St Kilda are the 2 furthest away from the grounds. They are 6km away. The fans have always travelled to pretty clsoe anyway.

If we bring back Newtown, Annandale, Syd Uni, Glebe and Balmain as a stand alone it would be similar but we do not have that structure.

The SFS would not see and increase in Manly fans for big games, just other teams fans as we are playing at their home ground, im betting less than big games at Brookie. Goodbye home ground advantag.

Very true. And when the AFL built its own stadium miles from the CBD it was a dismal failure, and sold off to make a housing estate. Sure, take our blockbuster matches to the SFS or SCG occasionally, but rarely is Brookie ever at capacity and, in my opinion, provides an atmosphere like no other ground.

 

[ManlyArmy]

If you think about it, us and Easts are the only teams that don't have access to a train service.

So if Easts can't get decent crowds, how does the NRL expect us to get decent ones at the SFS

 

[Snake]

Yes, because that's turned out so badly for Souths and the Bulldogs then, hasn't it?

If I was a Souths or Dogs supporter I would yearn for the glory days of Redfern and Belmore and be tickle pink with any notion of an upgrade to facilities at these venues.

Sure, it's not terminal to success, but it certainly impacts on club culture which is just as important IMO. If football operations were the only important facet of supporting a club, I'd just wait till October and follow the team that wins the premiership every year.

 

[Technical Coach]

Why do people keep using the Vic AFL model, it is just stupidity.

Essendon and St Kilda are the 2 furthest away from the grounds. They are 6km away. The fans have always travelled to pretty clsoe anyway.

If we bring back Newtown, Annandale, Syd Uni, Glebe and Balmain as a stand alone it would be similar but we do not have that structure.

The SFS would not see and increase in Manly fans for big games, just other teams fans as we are playing at their home ground, im betting less than big games at Brookie. Goodbye home ground advantag.

Well basically what you are saying is Manly fans don't travel and that we are not worth keeping in the competition.

I've seen many regular season games where Manly fans travel in numbers all over Sydney including Gosford over the last 2 decades to suggest this crap about "having to stay at Brookie or Manly fans wont turn up" is just that.

Yes obviously going through The Spit can have it's issues and yes the train station is not right at the front of the SFS compared to Homebush but distance wise Redfern to Homebush is the same.

I would even suggest that there is more scope for Manly to increase crowds considering 40% of the home crowd base is from outside the area. The local Manly demographic "family size" wise is probably smaller---wealthy singles/wealthy couples with small family sizes along with educated people who have more entertainment options to take up their time.

What holds Manly crowds back is the location and lacking a train station right next to Brookie---small stadium with a lack of facilities also.

Population growth wise Manly is not going to explode in numbers like other areas of Sydney so we should be trying to catch fans in "all" growing areas and making it easier for them to attend games. The beauty of Manly's fan base is it is spread all over the place due to the class nature of supporting a team that is not a "Bogan Team"

Personally speaking I think Brookie can work and SFS or a combination of the two.

I also recall reading somewhere many years ago that the yield was better at Brookie compared against BlueTongue (not sure if this is still the case or if it was some "pro Manly false fact bias") obviously due to the better average disposable income of the area which is an advantage for Brookie.

 

[mickqld]

..........
In a way Manly is more a class team that smarter individuals from all areas in Sydney gravitate to as their chosen team to differentiate themselves from the boring masses. ..............
\.

I just love that quote. It sums us up perfectly. We are a club that stands for everything against the moron tall poppy syndrome masses. Should of heard the toothless braindead Souffs dicks ringing up the radio this arvo over the Sutton Burgess thing claiming it's the tall poppy syndrome trying to bring down the great Souffs team. Hypocrite morons who then throw in an I hate Manly comment because of Burgess.

 

[Fluffy]

Well basically what you are saying is Manly fans don't travel and that we are not worth keeping in the competition.

I've seen many regular season games where Manly fans travel in numbers all over Sydney including Gosford over the last 2 decades to suggest this crap about "having to stay at Brookie or Manly fans wont turn up" is just that.

Yes obviously going through The Spit can have it's issues and yes the train station is not right at the front of the SFS compared to Homebush but distance wise Redfern to Homebush is the same.

I would even suggest that there is more scope for Manly to increase crowds considering 40% of the home crowd base is from outside the area. The local Manly demographic "family size" wise is probably smaller---wealthy singles/wealthy couples with small family sizes along with educated people who have more entertainment options to take up their time.

What holds Manly crowds back is the location and lacking a train station right next to Brookie---small stadium with a lack of facilities also.

Population growth wise Manly is not going to explode in numbers like other areas of Sydney so we should be trying to catch fans in "all" growing areas and making it easier for them to attend games. The beauty of Manly's fan base is it is spread all over the place due to the class nature of supporting a team that is not a "Bogan Team"

Personally speaking I think Brookie can work and SFS or a combination of the two.

I also recall reading somewhere many years ago that the yield was better at Brookie compared against BlueTongue (not sure if this is still the case or if it was some "pro Manly false fact bias") obviously due to the better average disposable income of the area which is an advantage for Brookie.

I call BS

Manly fans don't travel in huge numbers. We are usually lucky to get 3K to an away game in Sydney, trust me I am there. I recall in 2008 at shark park where we had close to 3K we outvoiced the 9K sharks supporters, GT's and that was one of our better turn outs for a regular game.

In saying that Opposition fans don't travel and are worse than Manly fans. Most Brookie games we are lucky to get 1K of their fans. This is offset by the larger number of Manly fans that turn up locally.

So as I said before all you will achieve for fan numbers is decreasing the Manly fan % and increasing opposition %.

Games against the panthers or wests will probably have a crowd under 10K with a 50/50 split of supporters. That will be a great atmosphere in a cavernous craphole.

Even our biggest potential crowd for a finals game at the SFS against souffs only made it to 25K, about 10K we manly fans. That game would have barely sold out Brookie and in doing so gave the home ground advantage to the 2/3 souths crowd. This for a one off, one would only hope to get half of that for a boring regular season game.

5 thousand manly fans week in week out will be the death of us, Stupid idea that has no place in any manly fans mind

 

[Technical Coach]

I call BS

Manly fans don't travel in huge numbers. We are usually lucky to get 3K to an away game in Sydney, trust me I am there. I recall in 2008 at shark park where we had close to 3K we outvoiced the 9K sharks supporters, GT's and that was one of our better turn outs for a regular game.

In saying that Opposition fans don't travel and are worse than Manly fans. Most Brookie games we are lucky to get 1K of their fans. This is offset by the larger number of Manly fans that turn up locally.

So as I said before all you will achieve for fan numbers is decreasing the Manly fan % and increasing opposition %.

Games against the panthers or wests will probably have a crowd under 10K with a 50/50 split of supporters. That will be a great atmosphere in a cavernous craphole.

Even our biggest potential crowd for a finals game at the SFS against souffs only made it to 25K, about 10K we manly fans. That game would have barely sold out Brookie and in doing so gave the home ground advantage to the 2/3 souths crowd. This for a one off, one would only hope to get half of that for a boring regular season game.

5 thousand manly fans week in week out will be the death of us, Stupid idea that has no place in any manly fans mind

If opposition fans don't travel and you say Manly fans don't travel does that not mean we are no different to any other supporter base.

The "usual" split in big games is a (70/30--- 65/35) mix and I see that often with Manly at Parra Stadium when it is close to or over the 20,000 mark and even as far west as Penrith Stadium. I think for a small period at the time it was a record crowd for Penrith in 2003 the 30-29 game just under 20,000.

Your stat on the biggest potential crowd for finals games is way off, against Nth Qld who hardly had any supporters at the game I think we had 32,000 in 07 or 08 not sure.

It is all about the interest in the game with all supporter bases----how it is promoted and the cycle the team is currently in "on the rise" after a long poor period with new players starting to shine support grows and as the success matures and becomes a constant it dips.

During the 90's and the big promotion of the initial Monday Night Football between Easts and Manly was almost a full house at the SFS for a regular season game---it is all about the occasion and general level of interest.

Shark Park is another hard to get to ground and if you are saying the split was 9000 locals and 3000 Manly supporters that is a standard home ground mix for "most" Sydney clubs with reasonable expectations to make the semis and still in the hunt.

This crap about Manly fans don't travel is more about having a go at the posh well to do location and how they would never dare drive through Blacktown and transferred to the supporter base with no real statistical evidence to back it up. Manly fans travel when the interest is on the rise like most Sydney clubs----yes when Manly are performing badly then yes I agree we don't tend to travel and a big drop off takes place.

Like I mentioned in a previous post Manly fans are spread all over Sydney not so much reliant on local support as was shownb by the home ground poll I read in the 90's about the Manly fan base.

Too manly people are prepared to love Brookie to the death of Manly, if the home ground infrastructure does not improve and public transport options also what choice do we have.

 

[Fluffy]

If opposition fans don't travel and you say Manly fans don't travel does that not mean we are no different to any other supporter base.

Exactly, Keep it within 10km or so and you will be ok, move it too far and you are boned.

So a few games in the last 7 years where we would have come out ahead will not offset the 80%+ where we struggle

 

[Dan]

My personal suggestion, and I think it is a winner, is to move the homeground to Amsterdam ArenA.

Let's look at the benefits of such a move
- Large stadium Style Arena
- Main city Stadium
- Great transport to and from the location. Easy from the airport, centraal station or more importantly only a few stops on the metro from my house (15 mins or so), really easy from anywhere in or outside the city
- World class teams play out of there
- One of the worlds most successful clubs play from there
- world class food and drink locations around there (slight sarcasm here)
- Great view from anywhere in the stadium
- Fast entry and exit of the stadium
- The top closes in inclement weather

To me it just ticks about every box.

 

[Technical Coach]

Exactly, Keep it within 10km or so and you will be ok, move it too far and you are boned.

So a few games in the last 7 years where we would have come out ahead will not offset the 80%+ where we struggle

80% nowhere near that when you compare Sydney team for Sydney team and the difference between night and day matches.

We can play Melb at Brookie and outdraw a big game between two Sydney teams at Brookie or we can play Melb and be lucky to draw 10,000 each game is different.

Sunday afternoon at Parra Stadium with the game being a blockbuster and you get great crowds with a huge Manly turnout, Friday and Saturday night and just an average game with no blockbuster appeal and you get your 12-13,000 be it Brookie or Parra Stadium.

I guarantee you there are more Sydney Manly fans that have never been to Brookie than any other club supporter not visiting their own home ground.

Kids and Teens are not going to travel to Brookie if they live out west it is just way too much effort to do so. Stop at Wynyard then catch a long haul bus drive to Brookie why bother especially for night games.

I know several supporters who only watch Manly at SFS,Homebush, Parra Stadium and Penrith, games at Kogarah, Shark Park same boat as Brookie too much effort.

 

[globaleagle]

My personal suggestion, and I think it is a winner, is to move the homeground to Amsterdam ArenA.

To me it just ticks about every box.

If that's close to Vancouver, then I'm in!

 

[Dan]

If that's close to Vancouver, then I'm in!

about 10 hours way I think. So no different from a commute cross Sydney