Oshay on the move?

[jbb/james]

It’s all just a matter of opinion but I actually think Jake’s lack of leg speed means we can’t afford to play him at prop. We need leg speed over the ad line to get us forward during our yardage sets and Jake is not great at this. When he plays lock, he can play 80 and tackle anything that moves in the middle of the field. When we’ve got the ball, we can use his clever passing game (which means less of his ineffective running game) to push the ball from the middles to the halves on either side. It worked well in the Raiders demolition in Canberra this year.

The less of those slow lumbering runs the better. The longer he is on the field keeping the middle tight, the better.

for manly jakes best position may be 13. The problem is, we are all scarred from him playing first receiver when the 13 jesrsey is on his back. His lack of leg speed has never been as evident as then. he essentially held the defence up long enough to read numbers before passing as his running game just wasnt a threat. The whole link man role was a dismal failure

When jake came on to the scene he had ball skills that have been utilised poorly. he was much more in the artie beetson style of popping balls in traffic to players on the fly. This worked well and if he continued on that course i feel he would have been more effective as an attacker. His own game has suffered from being a team man

history has shown he is not an 80 minute prop but his defence is needed for 80 minutes. 13 makes some sense if he can play jakes game and not have to half run the attack as well

 

[manly al]

Have to be careful to not lose another good or likely prospect in Navale after the situation with Sam Fainu .
Obviously have to balance out short term needs versus long term considerations and the money factor with Sam was obviously another matter .
Only natural to seek out ready made type of more top line forwards especially if Alioia leaves but again the also serious consideration of trying to further develop and retain the up and comers just not quite ready yet and on present indications of being able to very likely get to the next level .

 

[joshcooper123]

If I was a neutral supporter has only watched a few games I would rate Nathan Brown and Josh Aloiai as on the same salary. Both of them can change a game through naturally aggressive forwards, both lack consistency with miss tackles and penalties, both can play front row and fill in at lock if needed. If we let Aloiai go for around 500k to England and sign Brown for 300k deal for 1 season that's an easy 200k gain there.

With this money we are then looking at the new 2025 players off contract who we can now sign. I would be looking at strengthening our pack with either May, or Whyte from the Roosters for like a 4 year deal for 500k and 400k respectively or finefeiaki from the cowboys on a 2 year deal for 300k.

Unfortunately there isn't too many front rowers out there that we cans sign so investing in young talent will be the way forward. As well as lets say James and Navale shine through and we our pack had a great year a smart singing with the extra 200k would be turava from the panthers.

We need a yardage winging for play 2 or 3 getting us out of own backfield and that will be Tuipilotu's or Vaega job this season but if we want the complete winger who is also a great finisher and safe with the high ball he could be a great signing for 500k. This deal may have to wait depending on if Luai gets resigned and also Manly will probably need to wait because if either Tuipilotu or Vaega have a stand out year it's a waste of 200k for someone who can now play that role.

​

 

[Disco]

I find a lot of the chat around 'a modern lock' interesting.

Like people think every club is running some smaller, dynamic, ball playing, explosive, fast lock.

Not sure that is the case.

Sure you have your Cam Murray, Cotter and to a point Radley but there are plenty of either prop like middles in Josh King, Corey Horsburgh, De Belin, Tohu Harris or Alex Twal and a bunch of workers with a bit of this and that like Adam Elliott, Hopgood, McInnes.

Even your creme of the crop in Carrigan and Yeo are more middles but very good ones.

For Manly, IMO it is not a matter of weather Jake is a better prop or lock because hot tip, whatever number is on Jakes back he is essentially playing the same game. It is a quesion of our team playing style and if we need more attacking energy in the middle if the field.

Personally I'm not sure attacking output is our issue. We have players in Tommy, DCE, Brooks, Koula, Schuster (when he wants) Olakau'atu, Garrick, Paseka and even Burbo who can be very effective attacking in there own way.

What we do lack at times is attitude and defensive fortitude. So with the current makeup of our team I lean towards Jake at 13.

 

[Peter C]

This should have happened after July 2022. It's time for the other Polynesian boys to step into the leadership role that Aloiai played within the MWSE squad. It could really be the making of Haumole, as he would lead the other boys through actions and not just words. It's a great call for the club if it's

I like the idea of Matterson in a football sense and for team balance.

But he is a mercenary who only cares about himself. Not paying that 4k fine and taking the suspension at the start of last year was one of the weirder and more selfish things I have seen in the game.

Matterson not paying that fine and opting to sit out three games was blown out all proportions, he was initially so pi$$Ed off at the charge for his suspension that he said that he wasn't going to pay the fine due to being so angry at the bull**** charge, but shortly after when things cooled down he elected to pay the fine but the NRL said that penalty can't be reversed as he firstly elected the suspension.

 

[Ryan]

I find a lot of the chat around 'a modern lock' interesting.

Like people think every club is running some smaller, dynamic, ball playing, explosive, fast lock.

Not sure that is the case.

Sure you have your Cam Murray, Cotter and to a point Radley but there are plenty of either prop like middles in Josh King, Corey Horsburgh, De Belin, Tohu Harris or Alex Twal and a bunch of workers with a bit of this and that like Adam Elliott, Hopgood, McInnes.

Even your creme of the crop in Carrigan and Yeo are more middles but very good ones.

For Manly, IMO it is not a matter of weather Jake is a better prop or lock because hot tip, whatever number is on Jakes back he is essentially playing the same game. It is a quesion of our team playing style and if we need more attacking energy in the middle if the field.

Personally I'm not sure attacking output is our issue. We have players in Tommy, DCE, Brooks, Koula, Schuster (when he wants) Olakau'atu, Garrick, Paseka and even Burbo who can be very effective attacking in there own way.

What we do lack at times is attitude and defensive fortitude. So with the current makeup of our team I lean towards Jake at 13.

We came 10th in attack in 2023
We came 10th in attack in 2022

I'd put that down to three things:
1. Pretty poor / slow distribution from dummy half;
2. Terrible play-the-ball and ruck speed;
3. An awfully slow, ineffective and immobile pack, that lack any x-factor.

We don't hit the line at speed. Therefore, if you assume we are power (rather than speed) type team, here are our stats last season:

15th overall in all run metres
14th overall in average run metres
16th overall in all runs
15th overall in average runs
16th overall in both kick return metres (both all and average)
12th overall in post contact metres
17th overall on line engagements

I mean, not exactly glowing stats for our team (and especially forwards).

 

[Disco]

We came 10th in attack in 2023
We came 10th in attack in 2022

I'd put that down to three things:
1. Pretty poor / slow distribution from dummy half;
2. Terrible play-the-ball and ruck speed;
3. An awfully slow, ineffective and immobile pack, that lack any x-factor.

We don't hit the line at speed. Therefore, if you assume we are power (rather than speed) type team, here are our stats last season:

15th overall in all run metres
14th overall in average run metres
16th overall in all runs
15th overall in average runs
16th overall in both kick return metres (both all and average)
12th overall in post contact metres
17th overall on line engagements

I mean, not exactly glowing stats for our team (and especially forwards).

And Jack at prop as opposed to lock fixes all that?

Absolutely agreed we need to improve line speed, play the ball speed and our all round work within the run.

100% but they are coaching, structure, across the team improvements we have to make.

 

[The Wheel]

Could it be?

 

[Ryan]

Could it be?View attachment 25448

Heaven - would literally return all types of faith in the club.

 

[Pete W]

We came 10th in attack in 2023
We came 10th in attack in 2022

I'd put that down to three things:
1. Pretty poor / slow distribution from dummy half;
2. Terrible play-the-ball and ruck speed;
3. An awfully slow, ineffective and immobile pack, that lack any x-factor.

We don't hit the line at speed. Therefore, if you assume we are power (rather than speed) type team, here are our stats last season:

15th overall in all run metres
14th overall in average run metres
16th overall in all runs
15th overall in average runs
16th overall in both kick return metres (both all and average)
12th overall in post contact metres
17th overall on line engagements

I mean, not exactly glowing stats for our team (and especially forwards).

Very concerning stats indeed, and your reasons for such poor attack certainly ring true to me too - I would also add to the fact we have poor distribution from dummy half, that also we have been missing a genuine fullback for almost 70% of games during that period.

Re our poor run metres, I think it's important to point out that the major reason (in addition to poor ruck speed in general), is more to do with the lack of decent yardage from our back 5 to start our sets (the only reason I would be persisting with Tuipulotu for a little longer)

 

[Disco]

OMG Imagine

Keppie and Oshay out. AFB back.

Sign me up

8.AFB
9.Croker
10.Paseka
11.Olakuatu
12.B Trbojevic/Schuster
13.J Trbojevic.


One can dream

 

[Will on the hill]

We came 10th in attack in 2023
We came 10th in attack in 2022

I'd put that down to three things:
1. Pretty poor / slow distribution from dummy half;
2. Terrible play-the-ball and ruck speed;
3. An awfully slow, ineffective and immobile pack, that lack any x-factor.

We don't hit the line at speed. Therefore, if you assume we are power (rather than speed) type team, here are our stats last season:

15th overall in all run metres
14th overall in average run metres
16th overall in all runs
15th overall in average runs
16th overall in both kick return metres (both all and average)
12th overall in post contact metres
17th overall on line engagements

I mean, not exactly glowing stats for our team (and especially forwards).

Pretty bleak stats for sure but all runs and average runs are possession based stats that speak more to handling errors and conceding penalties than ruck speed.

If we have less runs it also skews all the other stats.

I'm not saying these aren't horrible stats, just offering other contributing factors.

 

[MW66]

OMG Imagine

Keppie and Oshay out. AFB back.

Sign me up

8.AFB
9.Croker
10.Paseka
11.Olakuatu
12.B Trbojevic/Schuster
13.J Trbojevic.


One can dream

I can't see how we have the cap. More likely to be Dogs, Chooks. STI and Tigers have cap but could not imagine AFB going to a club not in contention.

Also if I was the Warriors I would not be letting him go without a significant player swap/compensation.

 

[Disco]

I can't see how we have the cap. More likely to be Dogs, Chooks. STI and Tigers have cap but could not imagine AFB going to a club not in contention.

Also if I was the Warriors I would not be letting him go without a significant player swap/compensation.

Possibly but if Keppie was on 500k and Wadell 200k and is Aloiai is on 600 plus...

 

[Ryan]

Possibly but if Keppie was on 500k and Wadell 200k and is Aloiai is on 600 plus...

This is arousing me in all sorts of inappropriate ways BUT, being me, this won't happen, because it might bring me a glimmer of happiness, and the world can't / won't allow that haha. I laugh, but I'd be crying in other case.

 

[Terry Zarsoff]

Could it be?View attachment 25448

Are some of his old associates now breathing down his neck across the Tasman?

 

[Will on the hill]

Are some of his old associates now breathing down his neck across the Tasman?

Maybe a case of delayed Stockholm syndrome and now he really misses them.

 

[Rocky]

Matterson not paying that fine and opting to sit out three games was blown out all proportions, he was initially so pi$$Ed off at the charge for his suspension that he said that he wasn't going to pay the fine due to being so angry at the bull**** charge, but shortly after when things cooled down he elected to pay the fine but the NRL said that penalty can't be reversed as he firstly elected the suspension.

Is that you Ryan?

If at any stage his logic was, I'm on 600k, and yet I won't cop a 4k fine to not miss a few games that's a massive red flag.

 

[47MVEagle]

Get it done

 

[Peter C]

Possibly but if Keppie was on 500k and Wadell 200k and is Aloiai is on 600 plus...

Wadell left years ago