Orford to win the Clive Churchill this year

[clontaago]

Rhino you can isolate a halfback because he does an isolated job. Second rowers/lock work as a group within the team. You have to take their roles within that group into account.

 

[Ryan]

True, true Douggie..but on the flipside, I think Choc / Menzies / G Stewart have to over compensate for that missing factor. Same as in my opinion Kite did for King (in previous years).

I think we were one hot backrower last year away from a premiership. We were CLOSE, but just that little tweak might have done it for us IMO.

Also guys, as I have said above, remember the club were going to release Willow to Catalans for this year (but they decided on going for Carlaw instead). The club have also told Willow that if he can get a better contract, he is free to go.

Therefore, I kind of reckon the coaching staff are feeling the same way as me to some degree.

Look, I like Willow in the team as he seems like a great bloke, who's given a lot for the club. The problem is evolution means we need to go to that NEXT level.

I think, and I think the club thinks a very similar way in this one instance...as dissapointing as that is for the Willow fans, and Willow himself.

 

[Ryan]

PPS: And people say all I ever do is agree with Mata - hehehehe.

 

[Garts]

At the moment Willo is the number one choice for lock due to his workrate.  No one has really stood up and demanded to be picked over him, hopefully it will change this year as our players seem to be continually developing every year and someone might stand up, however until I see someone demand to be picked over him I think Des has it right with him in the side.

 

[Ryan]

Garts - if he's the #1 choice at the moment, what is your take about the club suggesting he sign elsewhere should a decent contract present itself?

 

[clontaago]

Maybe they are doing he right thing by him mate, seeing as though he has done the right thing by them for a long time now. Giving him the chance to find another opportunity in the event that someone does stand up this year and take the lock position away from him.

 

[Garts]

Could be a number of factors like they did not believe what they were offering him was really fair or they have plans and expectations for someone to step up and take his place, they obviously have more inside info than you and me. We were all worried about BK leaving but Manly knew we had the players to step up and fill his shoes, that may very well be the case here.  However since I am not privy to all this information I can not really comment, however as I am aying from what I have seen from the current players Willow seems to have the edge.  If someone else forces him from the side we will be better off as it means they are a better option. All I know is Willow either starts or he is in reserve grade, he is of no benefit of the bench imo.

 

[ManlyBacker]

How many people were riding on OJs back? Not everyone is a gun strike player and the ones that tie the back 3 with a high tackle count are just as integral to a team's success. The other issue is you can only sign who becomes available and there up to another 15 clubs putting in bids if they need to strengthen an area. Having someone like Willo on low bucks and doing the job is all part of the balance of managing the cap. I think our recruitment has been near the top of what is possible and I won't be surprised for a succession plan based on who we already have.

 

[clontaago]

And lets face it, there was only one side better than us last year and regardless of whether we had Willow or someone else, I still dont think that would have made any difference as Melbourne were IMO streets ahead of everyone else.

 

[Ryan]

It's a tough one guys. Someone told me that the club expects Hargreaves to be in 1st grade from about mid season (forget who mentioned it). Don't know how truthful that is as well. I'd hate to see another handbag Harris, but TBH, again, I rated him a lot higher than most. He could at least break the line and offload.

If we want REAL value for Willow, I reckon having him in PL (even Captain) showing Mauro, Wells, Halden & co. what work is to be done to play in the big time, will be fantastic for our club.

One thing I CAN say about Willow, is he always plays to the best of his ability, and busts his gut.

I just don't think I can waiver on this one though guys.

I personally believe Hall (with more fitness) and minutes can add more in that backrow spot. Hall can also play prop if required.

There was also an article about Afamasaga from Peter Peters in The Daily suggesting this will be his 1st full off season, and to expect great things from him.

I certainly hope that's right.

There were glimpses (very small and infrequent) where Afamsaga did some pretty attractive football in 07.

 

[Matabele]

You're a clown Ryan.  "You can't waiver".  Utter BS.

It's been fairly comprehensively shown that Willo makes a valid contribution in the holistic totality of the side.  Yet the best you can now come up with is "you've heard" that an unproven rookie *maY8 break into the side by mid-season.

So what does Des do in the meantime (assuming your drunken conversations with club leeches hold any water at all)?  Run out with 16 men?????

 

[Garts]

I think it was Clon who commented on Hargreaves and the club expecting or hoping for him to be in first by half way through the season.  However the fact still remains all of the people you have mentioned above as Willow replacements are really unproven at NRL level, until the are you would be foolish to cut players who have proven they can contribute to the team at the highest level.

 

[Matabele]

exactly.

 

[Fro]

Willo is ****.

Just thought I'd add some completely emotive, unsubstantiated by dubious stats post in there.

 

[kingyfan]

Willo is one dimentional rubbish and should have been let go a couple of years ago.

So what if he makes a few tackles each game.  He does nothing in attack and usually drops the ball at least once a game.

OJ had a good running game in attack as well as being a strong tackler who hit runners hard in a tackle.  Willo is a podwerpuff tackler and would be lucky to knock the wind out of Rose.

Rumour has it that the forwards in premier league have broken into Willo's unit and stolen the photos of Des.  If that it true the Willo lovers will need to go to ground early to watch him play this year

 

[Ryan]

exactly.

 

[Garts]

Willow is one dimensional, I am not going to argue that.  I just did not see anyone stand out last year and demand to be picked over him.  If that happens this year I will be very happy, however he is not completely useless and worth booting out the door.

 

[Ryan]

You're a clown Ryan.  \"You can't waiver\".  Utter BS.

It's been fairly comprehensively shown that Willo makes a valid contribution in the holistic totality of the side.  Yet the best you can now come up with is \"you've heard\" that an unproven rookie *maY8 break into the side by mid-season.

So what does Des do in the meantime (assuming your drunken conversations with club leeches hold any water at all)?  Run out with 16 men?????

1st of all, and before you suggest I am having drunken conversations with club leeches - (edited) this paragraph. Twas not I that admitted to a drinking problem. That is all that is to be said here.

2nd, and I don't know how many times I have to repeat.....I believe Hall offers more. I think Afamsaga will offer more, and based on written information, Hargreaves will offer more in the mid to long term. Wells looks ok (not as good as you make him out), but ok.

Read the digits Mata. Willow doesn't perform in attack, and I've noted a fair percentage of fellow Silvertails patrons feeling likewise. Jatz quoted the stats. For one who suggests that mediocrity shouldn't be tolerated, you cartainly are very flexible here. Maybe Willow is an advocate & sponsors benefit of The Penns?

Heheheheh...I'll put the kevlar vest on shall I?

 

[Ryan]

Willow is one dimensional, I am not going to argue that.  I just did not see anyone stand out last year and demand to be picked over him.  If that happens this year I will be very happy, however he is not completely useless and worth booting out the door.

Garts - Willow is a top bloke - no doubt about that. I don't want him "booted out" or anything. I just want us to maximise our impact, and take that next step. That's all mate.

Would Willow ever "step up" to Crocker when he hit Stewart like he did?
Does he had dimensions in attack like Afamasaga / Hall do? I remember Hall scoring tries against The Roosters and co, Afamsaga long range one's against The Knights....Willow - a try against Nth Qld in a major semi no dount...but this was gifted to him by Bani's great play.

Too many minuses, and not enough counter acting pluses....that's all.

Value for money, Hall does it every time IMO guys.

 

[Garts]

If Hall took Willows place in the starting side we would be farked, defence around the ruck would be no where near as tight and he is not good for enough minutes, he would be blowing after 20 minutes.

Someone like Wells or Mauro needs to step up to take Willows spot, definately not Hall.  Afamasaga if he has had a good off season and trimmed down a little but he does not look that mobile in defence and we need a worker in defence if we replace Willow.