Oi - sitting on da fence is indefensible

[SeaEagleRock8]

Is there anyone who does not think defence is the area Manly most needs to improve? Great I'll assume that's unanimous.

Heaps of footy watching and playing experience here on ST, so ... what is needed to significantly improve the team's defence, within budget/salary cap?

? select different players - Ok we can't buy Yeo Martin Crichton etc but should Manly remodel the pack to include more superfit tackle machines and fewer giants? Make more use of players like Waddell, Navale, maybe Arthur. James? Where can we get another Alec MacDonald there must be one lying around somewhere

? Improve individual's defence - this should always happen each off season, and Manly has a no. of players who are still capable of improvement (reuben!)

? employ a different style of defence - some clubs seems better at the rushing man 3 man tackle, can our players not do that? can they learn to do that? Is there a reason not to do that?

? improve the attack - put more pressure on the opposition which in turn takes pressure off our defence. Croker at dummy half seems the popular target for a quick boost to our attack

? Better carry from our back 5 - leaving more energy for the forwards to focus on defence? Except none of our back players look like getting traded out (or do they?)

? Better wrestling/dancing/judo coaches - is this the problem?

? coach to become more angry/scary (Ok that was only semi-serious but some might consider it relevant!)

? none of the above? Or a bit of all? (Is that too wishy-washy??)

State your coaching strategy please! and give me some hope for a better 2025

 

[The Who]

Work on getting an even share of possession.
How did we lose the penalty count to Easts, the most ill-disciplined team in the comp? With 40% of the ball it's no wonder we were soundly beaten. Surely with all the technological help a club has these days it is possible to analyse who/why/where we give away penalties. Legitimate penalties that is; not much we can do about referee bias against us. It would be interesting to do a review of faux penalties, wouldn't it?
Penalties are kryptonite for us; we far to often let in a try after a penalty.
I think reducing our penalty count would be easier than buying a pack of better tacklers.

 

[manly al]

Not too sure on the stats of other sides but sure seems to be a problem area for Manly allowing a high number of off loads in certain matches,
Inevitable then to add just more pressure on the defensive line in that movement or the next .
Would think a more co ordinated tackling approach issue and something that should be able to improve on .
Losing a quite reliable defender in Lawton as well and a couple of Manly forwards can get a bit wayward defensively mainly through recovery or endurance problems particularly around the middle .
Pleasing that Saab adopted a more effective tackling approach this season , most of the backs rate O K and not such a bad outcome the way D C E was handling the Rooster"s attack directed at him on Saturday .
Obviously still always room for some improvement for the backs when the missed tackle count is working against the side in general in some matches .
Really hope that just not for attack but also defensively , Turbo can largely be injury free going forward as his last line of defence had been a not insignificant problem when struggling with injury
More in that recovery , numbering up and aiming up sufficiently against the faster paced and ball movement sides which is not uncommon these days .
Big test for any side in the faster paced style of the modern game but only way to stay competitive or better , is to adapt and try and get on top of any apparent weaknesses and definitely applies to the current squad .
Above average attack on a net aggregate rating but defensively, a lot to work on if any prospect of joining the serious frontrunners

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Work on getting an even share of possession.
How did we lose the penalty count to Easts, the most ill-disciplined team in the comp? With 40% of the ball it's no wonder we were soundly beaten. Surely with all the technological help a club has these days it is possible to analyse who/why/where we give away penalties. Legitimate penalties that is; not much we can do about referee bias against us. It would be interesting to do a review of faux penalties, wouldn't it?
Penalties are kryptonite for us; we far to often let in a try after a penalty.
I think reducing our penalty count would be easier than buying a pack of better tacklers.

Not sure where Manly ranked for penalties and 6-agains, but overall possession wasn't too bad.
(And 2 of the clubs with slightly better possession had far worse defence!)

Teams

Teams

www.nrl.com

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Not too sure on the stats of other sides but sure seems to be a problem area for Manly allowing a high number of off loads in certain matches,

Yes very noticeable and it's something that definitely gets me yelling at them.
Is it poor initial contact? or to do with getting insufficient numbers in tackles? or just because the defender is already back-pedalling or can't set for a strong tackle because something else had already gone wrong?

 

[manly al]

Work on getting an even share of possession.
How did we lose the penalty count to Easts, the most ill-disciplined team in the comp? With 40% of the ball it's no wonder we were soundly beaten. Surely with all the technological help a club has these days it is possible to analyse who/why/where we give away penalties. Legitimate penalties that is; not much we can do about referee bias against us. It would be interesting to do a review of faux penalties, wouldn't it?
Penalties are kryptonite for us; we far to often let in a try after a penalty.
I think reducing our penalty count would be easier than buying a pack of better tacklers.

Certainly a questionable call on Garrick holding down early on when the Roosters were blatantly doing the same thing or similar previously .
Seemed a really unnecessary penalty that Brown conceded and in a semi final situation, sure can be costly .
Roosters were only under limited pressure for the bulk of the match so proportionally at least, would expect less likely to concede penalties
Would not have altered the final result that much , got away with limited possession in the i st half against the Bulldogs to go on with it but just down in so many key areas for most of the game against the better rated Roosters

 

[manly al]

Yes very noticeable and it's something that definitely gets me yelling at them.
Is it poor initial contact? or to do with getting insufficient numbers in tackles? or just because the defender is already back-pedalling or can't set for a strong tackle because something else had already gone wrong?

Think it is more effort and technique related, wrapping up the ball should not be not that much of a problem for most of the Manly squad .
Some big strong lads mostly on offer and that extra effort to lock the ball up should not be too big an ask

 

[IQofalimabean]

Working it off the ten meter line and keeping the opposition pinned in their own 40 they can do it at training against an opposing team.

 

[maxta]

The fact with an even amount of possession and a "healthy" team, points will ALWAYS come for Manly....thats not the MAIN issue, though there's a heap of room to improve here also.
I feel we were tricked into feeling competitive at times in 2024 after racking up big scores, or even toppling those top teams.
Fact is, once the seasonal games finished and we hit finals mode - the intensity is raised in a BIG way and teams rely on gaining an advantage over the opposition by winning the defence and of course picking apart a few key area's of weakness and exposing them as ALL of the remaining finalists would have done also if we made it further.

The Key defensive issues apart from defending in poor field position after an error, 6 again, penalty, or having limited penetration after they pin us inside our 30m line are -

Line Speed
Contact
Control in tackle
Tempo control (slowing the attack legally)
Communication ( often after they again win a quick play ball)
Execution ( some really poor misses - Oka and Jake need to train them 1 on 1)

I feel we lost in every 1 of these departments against Roosters and even the Dogs beat us up for the majority of the game a week earlier, only lacked the quality Roosters have to put us to bed.

I could rant all day on "why", but put simply we have a fairly slow and cumbersome pack who struggle to keep up with high intensity opposition attack, that kicks down our front door in the middle and helps expose some poor defensive execution out wide....though I will say often times we blame the outside backs, the rot has started through the middle who avoid the critisism because the point are scored out wide.
I mean old broken down Browny is our leader in line speed and at times the next defender is 4-5 metres back !!
We need some Cam Murray type lock (sorry Jake) but he is a prop forward who should be used for early defence and quick play balls....Croker is their simply for defence (which is not good enough) as EVERY attacking set the focal player who determines EVERY player is the 9, does it effect defence = YES.....because it limits our field position and helps the opposition Win field position and when you talk contact, his slow service has the opposition defenders zeroing in to put on shots and win the contacts leading to dropped balls, fatigue as players struggle on backs and 'slow" play balls for a repeat next tackle.

Another key needed is our big men learning to offload....2nd faze play creates disruption to ANY defence as you can't train for it so the Storm/penrith teams so well structured suddenly become human and beatable, offloads and 2nd faze play along with your X factor players will decide the 2024 decider, so Manly need this.

Anyways could go on but it's very real that attack and defence coincide and the energy gained on both sides of the coin help the other....

Great thread btw SER8 and need to jump off before I write a book

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Defence

Our Achilles heel.

Number 1 priority to fix

 

[EagleGT]

Not sure where Manly ranked for penalties and 6-agains, but overall possession wasn't too bad.
(And 2 of the clubs with slightly better possession had far worse defence!)

Teams

Teams

www.nrl.com

According to this site Rugby League Tables / Penalty Counts Manly received the lowest number of penalties in the competition (109 up to end of round 27). Our against penalties are 3rd highest (148). This left us with a differential of -39 which was way more than any other team. The next highest differential was Souths on -19. We won the penalty count only 7 times which is equal second lowest.

Ironically, the Roosters are the most penalised team (164 against). Until they play Manly that is.

 

[globaleagle]

Accoring to this site Rugby League Tables / Penalty Counts Manly received the lowest number of penalties in the competition (109 up to end of round 24). Our against penalties are 3rd highest (148). This left us with a differential of -39 which was way more than any other team. The next highest differential was Souths on -19. We won the penalty count only 7 times which is equal second lowest.

Ironically, the Roosters are the most penalised team (164 against). Until they play Manly that is.

Just more of that totally unbiased refereeing we hear so much about.

thanks for posting that.

 

[Ryan]

Points conceded, we actually came 7th best in the entire NRL defensively. (5th best attack, thank you very much !). Not too shabby.

 

[Tragic Eagle]

According to this site Rugby League Tables / Penalty Counts Manly received the lowest number of penalties in the competition (109 up to end of round 27). Our against penalties are 3rd highest (148). This left us with a differential of -39 which was way more than any other team. The next highest differential was Souths on -19. We won the penalty count only 7 times which is equal second lowest.

Ironically, the Roosters are the most penalised team (164 against). Until they play Manly that is.

That says it all! It is frustrating seeing sides lie all over us and we are caned instantly.

 

[jbb/james]

I like watching Manly defend but they tackle too frequently instead of defending

These days you tackle when desperate or stretched but defend , dance and lower to enjoy ruck dominance

Jake chops people down…..no coincidence he gets pinged a bit, as does frog, the lawman, oku
All copy book at times.

We just play too nice a game of footy and its very effecient in the ruck

And the rush of bloods
Captain shooting star and Mr ankle tappy tap( he seems to have become ) has really shone a light on where teams should aim the attack at manly . He has become the where’s waldo of saloon passages. I think a few intercepts really got his blood running and by seasons end he spent more time in opposition backline than ours in defence . His reads were costing us a couple of tries a week. We all know it

 

[The Who]

Not sure where Manly ranked for penalties and 6-agains, but overall possession wasn't too bad.
(And 2 of the clubs with slightly better possession had far worse defence!)

Teams

Teams

www.nrl.com

Thanks for those stats.
I find them very hard to believe. It would appear we have a perfect sport where all teams get an even share of possession, or very close to it.

 

[Waz13]

Points conceded, we actually came 7th best in the entire NRL defensively. (5th best attack, thank you very much !). Not too shabby.

And we eventually finished 6th overall once all said and done. Stats don’t always tell the full story but seems been pretty accurate in our case this season.

 

[Waz13]

According to this site Rugby League Tables / Penalty Counts Manly received the lowest number of penalties in the competition (109 up to end of round 27). Our against penalties are 3rd highest (148). This left us with a differential of -39 which was way more than any other team. The next highest differential was Souths on -19. We won the penalty count only 7 times which is equal second lowest.

Ironically, the Roosters are the most penalised team (164 against). Until they play Manly that is.

Sadly this does not surprise me at all. No wonder our resilience levels come into question.

 

[Dion Johnson]

Defence: Put some sting back in the tackles, one way to stop the opposing team running hard is give it to them, Guaca was the most consistent in this area, as a collective group they should watch the tape from round 1 & 2 games where they were hitting with sting, they dominated the Rorters in this area in round 2. This faded as the season went on.

Middles: There are a few aging players in the squad who faded as the season went on, may need to look at rotating them where possible, Jake is an example of this, played way to many minutes which effected his overall game.

Positions That Need More Depth: Backrow is very light on, if the squad get a couple of injuries in this area it looks the Achilles heel of the squad, you could also say hooker though Simpkin deserves a decent run here. Front row need an enforcer if Lodge is done.

Players that become better in 2025: Guaca, Tent, Koula, Hoppa, Navale, Simpkin, Bully and Ben T who fatigued early in some games playing in the backrow, for me I think centre is his best position at this stage of his game.

Hard Decisions: Need to shop a player or two to make room for a couple of backrowers, the three quarter line is strong and a player from here on decent coin would be a start.

Players to look at, that would fit in the cap.

• Ethan Roberts (backrow)
• Lela Halasima (backrow)
• Dylan Egan (backrow)
• Xavier Willison ( Frontrow)
• Noah Martin (backrow)

 

[Rocky]

I think our biggest issue is controlling the ruck.

We need a more engaging dummy half. The fact that we looked better with Simpkin, who is still young, but no way close to the top echelon of dummy halves, is telling.

We need more guys with punch on attack. Again, Jake at lock and on the edge Lawton/Ben T didn't offer much here.

And in defence we need to find a way to slow things down without having penalties and 6 agains blown endlessly.