NSW Cup 2025

[SeaEagleRock8]

Bollocks. There is plenty of benefit, both to the individual as well as the team! 19 is more than old enough if you're good enough, as evidenced by the countless 19yr old forwards that have historically debuted.

Having the majority of your pack at 19 years of age is a different story obviously, but there is absolutely no issue with any NRL team having one or two 19 yr old forwards who are good enough to compete athletically. Remember, they don't necessarily have to be the best on the park

Yeah but did you see post #475 above - even the best young forwards might only play a handful of games in their debut year. Martin was a bit older and could manage more games. Coincidence?

 

[manlyfan76]

 

[Pete W]

It isn't just about ability... There would be an element of 'duty of care' that needs to be considered as well.

As a forward they have to be physically and mentally ready to run into 300+ kilograms of hardened NRL footballers over 10 times a match, and tackle 100+ kg ball runners, 25+ weekends a year. It would surely be better for him to have a full NRL pre-season under his belt, after which he will still be 19 years old, before giving him a debut.

Who is calling for 25+ weekends in a year? We're talking about a debut. Real game experience that should be offered gradually - if they're good enough. 19 year olds go to war. It's really not that big of a deal for a 25yr old to run at a 19yr old

 

[Pete W]

Yeah but did you see post #475 above - even the best young forwards might only play a handful of games in their debut year. Martin was a bit older and could manage more games. Coincidence?

Why is it all or nothing? Who cares if they only play a handful of games in their debut year? That in itself is the duty of care shown by the club. It's supposed to be a gradual process. But the point is that they get the opportunity to debut as young as possible if they're good enough

 

[Scorpio]

Who is calling for 25+ weekends in a year? We're talking about a debut. Real game experience that should be offered gradually - if they're good enough. 19 year olds go to war. It's really not that big of a deal for a 25yr old to run at a 19yr old

To be clear I'm not saying he shouldn't debut as a 19 year old... I'm saying that it doesn't seem smart to debut him this season.

He will still be 19 years and 6 months old when the 2026 season starts, except with an NRL pre-season under his belt. I'm sure the club is planning on giving him starts next year.

He looks promising and I want him to have a long career here... but there will be nothing learned or gained if he goes out in the last 2 games of this year while we are still a slim chance of finals football, and then gets seriously injured or concussed. Which of course is always a risk when playing NRL, but it doesn't seem like one that is wise for the club to take at this point.

 

[TheSoaringEagle2023]

Why is it all or nothing? Who cares if they only play a handful of games in their debut year? That in itself is the duty of care shown by the club. It's supposed to be a gradual process. But the point is that they get the opportunity to debut as young as possible if they're good enough

You've been around long enough to know how the club works...they will likely sign Klemmer who will get a start and then the young fella either stays in reserve grade until he's 30 and then hes given a run or he does a runner like Kaeo.

 

[349]

Think we will see a few new blokes come thru and the 30 year old cheaper signing won’t need to happen now that DCE and the Turbo’s contracts are off the books or reduced. Oka and Bully got upgraded and you would think Hoppa will get an upgrade but should be some cap free for 2027.

 

[lsz]

Just checked a few

Liam Martin, debut age 22y 0m, 16 games in 1st season
Hudson Young, 20y 9m, 12 games
Cam Murray, 19y 3m, 9 games
J Nanai, 18y 1m, 4 games
A Crichton, 20y 5m, 8 games
Jayden Su'a, 18y 7m, 4 games (plus only 4 the following year also)


None of this will surprise anyone, shows if you're good enough you're old enough but also shows if back-rowers debut young they'll probably only get a few games anyway (and all these are top shelf players)

To be fair I do think you would need to look at how many players of a similar age have “made it” to see how tough this may or may not be

 

[TheSoaringEagle2023]

I get amused by the same posters that shut down any talk of fast tracking young players into 1st grade (when they show a bit of promise) saying they need a few years in NSW cup first....then when those same young players go to another club, their response is...oh well we can't keep them all. lol. It's almost like they prefer the 30 plus journeyman who has amassed like 20 games over a 8 year career.

 

[eaglebuzz]

If he's not better than Waddel, Jazz or Lodge then what's all the fuss about him?

If he's better than Waddell we should play him this week.

 

[Tragic Eagle]

A first grade debut is important. At this stage of the season it sets the bar for the level of fitness and performance they need to achieve and provides a real incentive during the pre season for next season. You’ve gotta give the talented youngsters a taste!

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

I get amused by the same posters that shut down any talk of fast tracking young players into 1st grade (when they show a bit of promise) saying they need a few years in NSW cup first....then when those same young players go to another club, their response is...oh well we can't keep them all. lol.

Doesn't matter how many years they spend in NSW Cup, if they aren't up to it. Eg matterson, James...

FYI since 2022 Manly has tried young players with a bit of promise, Bull, Samuela, Fulton, Tuilagi, Burbo Condon, James, next year maybe Bryan, Patolo, Mia, Simione, Hart?
So far only Bull and Samuela cut the mustard (and lack of talent wasn't why we let samuela walk). Burbo and Tuilagi still might show something

I think it's an urban myth that you can turn any promising young kid into a first grader simply by putting them in first grade and 'coaching them properly'.

It's almost like they prefer the 30 plus journeyman who has amassed like 20 games over a 8 year career.

Not sure who you mean! the over-30s Manly have signed in the same period are Woods, Brown and TKO, all have played a lot of NRL.

*by the way, re Woods (frequently cited as evidence of Manly relying on old players) - he filled in a grand total of 17 times out of 50 possible games, all bar once from the bench.
I think Woods at Manly has also become a bit of an urban myth!

 

[TheSoaringEagle2023]

Doesn't matter how many years they spend in NSW Cup, if they aren't up to it. Eg matterson, James...

FYI since 2022 Manly has tried young players with a bit of promise, Bull, Samuela, Fulton, Tuilagi, Burbo Condon, James, next year maybe Bryan, Patolo, Mia, Simione, Hart?
So far only Bull and Samuela cut the mustard (and lack of talent wasn't why we let samuela walk). Burbo and Tuilagi still might show something

I think it's an urban myth that you can turn any promising young kid into a first grader simply by putting them in first grade and 'coaching them properly'.


Not sure who you mean! the over-30s Manly have signed in the same period are Woods, Brown and TKO, all have played a lot of NRL.

*by the way, re Woods (frequently cited as evidence of Manly relying on old players) - he filled in a grand total of 17 times out of 50 possible games, all bar once from the bench.
I think Woods at Manly has also become a bit of an urban myth!

The problem is we don't give them enough games to prove themselves. We make an assessment after 3 games or so games whether they are worth keeping or not and then shove them back into reserve grade. We then give the guys over 30 or the journeymen who aren't local juniors the bulk of the games and most of the time they are past their best. Look at Navale, showed real promise as a junior and he's only played 7 games at 22, he should have been put in a few years ago over someone like Woods who was about 10 years past his best. Then the classic example is Weekes who was played out of position for a few games then he was done and dusted. He was even unfairly scapegoated for some of those losses. Sure theres a chance he may not have turned out like he did at the Raiders, but he would not have been expensive to keep.
The other problem is by giving them a few games to shine, they would have to put in a man of the match performance and how can you do that when DCE , Turbo, Brooks demands the ball since theyre the senior players.
Its not just coaching them properly, its gaining experience.

 

[TheSoaringEagle2023]

Why is it all or nothing? Who cares if they only play a handful of games in their debut year? That in itself is the duty of care shown by the club. It's supposed to be a gradual process. But the point is that they get the opportunity to debut as young as possible if they're good enough

Its the chicken and the egg scenario. They don't have enough experience in first grade yet by playing more games in 1st grade that's the only way you improve. Then you put forward the case that they've been playing well in reserve grade and the same posters will say 1st grade is a big step up. lol