Matt Orford, David Williams and Michael Robertson Just About Resigned - Seven Ne

[Normie]

His pay should correlate to the distance of his dropouts! If last Sunday was any indication, he would end up owing money.......

 

[Dan]

What Volley said, did not make sense.

The argument he is arguing against amounts to

We won last year despite Ox, this year he is a big part of us not going as well.

That makes perfect sense, and I can't see how you can call that "Having it both ways"

 

[DVS Matt]

Orford played a big hand in getting us the premiership....however....he has really let his team mates down this year.

Would sign him for 1 additional year and then see what is on the market/form of other halves in the club

 

[OneEyedEagle]

I have no issue with all three being signed up again. I just hope that they haven't got Orford on a 3 year deal. It should be either a 2 year or 1 year with 1 year extension option.

Only reason is that Ox is getting on in years and would love to see some fresh young player being developed in the role as Ox would make a great mentor.

 

[Volley]

What Volley said, did not make sense.

The argument he is arguing against amounts to

We won last year despite Ox, this year he is a big part of us not going as well.

That makes perfect sense, and I can't see how you can call that \"Having it both ways\"

Are you full tard or only half tard?

 

[Dan]

[quote author=Dan link=topic=181572.msg239700#msg239700 date=1252038648]
What Volley said, did not make sense.

The argument he is arguing against amounts to

We won last year despite Ox, this year he is a big part of us not going as well.

That makes perfect sense, and I can't see how you can call that \"Having it both ways\"

Are you full tard or only half tard?


[/quote]

Direct quote from you

"The haters say he had nothing to do with winning the comp last year, but is the major reason we're struggling this year. I don't get it. Can't have it both ways mofos. If he had nothing to do with winning last year, how can he blamed for the sides poor form this year? Doesn't make sense."

paraphrased, we won despite him but he is a bigger problem this year.....thats no having it both ways having it both ways would be saying

"Last year Ox won us the title, this year he is the reason we aren't"

Even that isnt having it both ways, its just someone's observation. Did you miss out on an education?

For the record, I am neither her nor there with Orford, I would prefer to keep him, but not for 3 years, and on the caveat that he helps transition another player AND we have someone cement the 5/8 spot

 

[Kiwi Eagle]

[quote author=KaZa link=topic=181572.msg239660#msg239660 date=1252023470]
Stop living in the past people.. Orford has done nothing this year.. (even though some think he did something last year...)

He is past it... i wouldnt even re sign him let alone 3 bloodyy years!

Thats madness.. as some have mentioned.. how bad will he be in a few years!

Applause....but wait a while you will get howled down by Kiwi etc who tell you because we won last year, we will win forever more with this team.

anyway applause from me
[/quote]

Love you too Dan

When have I said that last years team will win every game for eternity ?

I don't mind Orford re-signing, as I see him as the best 7 on our books at this stage, haven't seen Hodkinson at all to assess him

I think Des and Tooves, 2 former international halves, should know a bit about halfbacks and where they were at. They were howled down for thier opinion of Groom, but it seems to have been spot on

Orford was crap last week, as were the forwards and the hooker passing him the ball. Previous 2 weeks to that, forwards went well, Ballin had a blinder v Storm, and Orford plays well in both wins

Form is a funny thing, it can come and go. The 2 most extreme examples from last year to this year would be Kite and Hayne.

Players like Kite and Orford have shown us enough over the years, that a few months bad form should not be a reason to send them packing.

Kite in particular for me, there is the old saying that props peak around 30, and he is only 28ish I think

 

[Dan]

[quote author=Dan link=topic=181572.msg239661#msg239661 date=1252023651]
[quote author=KaZa link=topic=181572.msg239660#msg239660 date=1252023470]
Stop living in the past people.. Orford has done nothing this year.. (even though some think he did something last year...)

He is past it... i wouldnt even re sign him let alone 3 bloodyy years!

Thats madness.. as some have mentioned.. how bad will he be in a few years!

Applause....but wait a while you will get howled down by Kiwi etc who tell you because we won last year, we will win forever more with this team.

anyway applause from me
[/quote]

Love you too Dan

When have I said that last years team will win every game for eternity ?

I don't mind Orford re-signing, as I see him as the best 7 on our books at this stage, haven't seen Hodkinson at all to assess him

I think Des and Tooves, 2 former international halves, should know a bit about halfbacks and where they were at. They were howled down for thier opinion of Groom, but it seems to have been spot on

Orford was crap last week, as were the forwards and the hooker passing him the ball. Previous 2 weeks to that, forwards went well, Ballin had a blinder v Storm, and Orford plays well in both wins

Form is a funny thing, it can come and go. The 2 most extreme examples from last year to this year would be Kite and Hayne.

Players like Kite and Orford have shown us enough over the years, that a few months bad form should not be a reason to send them packing.

Kite in particular for me, there is the old saying that props peak around 30, and he is only 28ish I think
[/quote]

The other week you howled me down for saying stop living in the past...same thing!

I am more of a current form person. If you are playing ****, you get a few games, cause you could be having a bad run, but when you continually dish up rubbish you should be dropped.

There doesn't seem to be any real accountability, i fyou play crap you get a dressing down from des then you go and play again next week.

I just dont see that as a motivating factor. Turn up, run around, get paid. Tony Williams had that attitude and look how long it took to finally drop him. the first one to suffer that fate in a long time.

Cuthbo has always been a fringe player so you cant really use him as another example either

 

[Kiwi Eagle]

Did I howl you down ?

I am fine with current form for a week to week selection, but personally feel that when evaluating whether to axe a player from the squad entirely, you need to look at more factors

My main thing though, is that if we make a change and drop a player, it needs to be to improve the side

Tony Williams out,  Siniula in, I would have been fine with that, the side could be better off

Orford out, Cherry Evans in, the side will not be as good imo

If we look at 2 current examples, Matai and Kite

If Matai makes way for a Lyon, Farrar, Foran situation, I can live with that. If Matai made way for say Neumann, no way

Kite. I don't think we can drop him and improve the side, even at 50% I think he offers the side more than JWH and Cuthbo. JWHs defence worries me majorly

 

[Dan]

I wouldnt mind seeing how JWH goes this week and then make a judgment call on that one!

Also I may be a sucker for punishment, but I want to see Seinfield get a run in the centres, Des obviously sees something in him and it certainly is not a star winger!

 

[DSM5]

Can't see why we should keep Orford for one year.  Just prolongs the agony (or the extasy for those masochists amongst us). 

Nobody is talking of dropping Kite for Cuthb or JWH.  Where did that come from Kiwi?  Both Cuthbo and JWH are crap in my opinion and Mauro should replace King this week.  But back to Orford,  Hodgkinson shows far more promise than Orford does for the future.

 

[Kiwi Eagle]

LOL, you just want your whipping boy back Dan. Last season, round 26, Des wanted to bring Lyon off the bench in his comeback, so used Neumann for the 20 min softening up period, and he actually played pretty well, so I had some hopes for him this season, but he had that shocker and it probably destroyed his head

DSM, plenty have been talking of dropping Kite for a while now, if he was dropped, then those other 2 are the obvious replacements for him

 

[Dan]

LOL, you just want your whipping boy back Dan. Last season, round 26, Des wanted to bring Lyon off the bench in his comeback, so used Neumann for the 20 min softening up period, and he actually played pretty well, so I had some hopes for him this season, but he had that shocker and it probably destroyed his head

DSM, plenty have been talking of dropping Kite for a while now, if he was dropped, then those other 2 are the obvious replacements for him

I have always had a soft spot for Nuemann however ont he wing he is hopeless. As a centre only he seems to be ok.

I dont need a new whipping boy with Matai playing the way he is

 

[KaZa]

Lyon ran the show last year in the finals.. he was phenomenal at 5/8.. did most the kicking.. most the attacking..Orford PLAYED his part.. for sure.. he didnt do much though and i think if we had any decent half we would have had the same result.

Although this year Lyon hasnt been 5/8 with Bailey there most the year.. Orford didnt step up.. he OVERPLAYS the game and tries to control too much.. and wants the ball too often.. which is breaking down our attack. With other attacking influences not seeing enough ball. ie last week.. how many times did Foran have the ball in the 4th/5th tackles. When Lyon plays 5/8 he is the dominant one.. Orford should just play what he sees fit and concentrate on his kicking.. which is what he did in the finals last season.

 

[kingyfan]

The only problem with the Orford debates that grind my gears is thus.

The haters say he had nothing to do with winning the comp last year, but is the major reason we're struggling this year. I don't get it. Can't have it both ways mofos. If he had nothing to do with winning last year, how can he blamed for the sides poor form this year? Doesn't make sense.

Anyway, 3 years is pretty ridiculous. I'm happy with 1, 2 max.

We really kicked on after the souths loss last year and that was purely because Lyon starting hittign his straps as a 5/8. 

In the semis it was Lyon's kicking game and talent that one us those games plus the grand final.  orford was a passenger along for the ride.  One year extension maximum then hodkinson/Cherry evans to step up and tale over.