Manly players back under-pressure Barrett

[Smokin Joe]

Add to that.Teams are not chock full of champions like the players you mentioned,teams are lucky to have more than 1 or 2 at any given time,we were blessed to have a few for a number of years,the rarity of them is what makes them champions above others.

 

[maxta]

They are not "accountable" to us as fans or the media no matter how much we would like them to be(yes we pay their wages and we want to be informed,but as far as I care they can keep their dirty laundry behind closed doors,I prefer a unified/united front to stop the media crucifying the players/coach and creating division and questions amongst the playing group but isn't that is part of the siege mentality? Fxxx what others think?).To say that all champion players wear their heart on their sleeve is wrong,Cronk,Cam Smith,Lockyer,Buderus,O'Connor,Lyon,Lyons were all the more reserved type of personality and were/are still champions.You don't have to let others be able to read and know what you are thinking/feeling all the time to be a champion,sometimes keeping your cards close to your chest is a good option.

They don't seem accountable to themselves, in fact why would they be....always an excuse as to why the intensity is poor....expect little and it's easy pleased right??
The players above would have been poor poker players who gave away their hand....not throw the mouth guard or break lockers, but all can't hide their disappointment....certainly not laughing away looking THAT easy with a loss....even young Jake who is quietly spoken shows passion that can't be hidden.
Did you see Cronk after getting belted 40-0 in THAT GF??
Absolute gentleman and great sportsmanship but was torn and it was very evident....I don't expect tears or fists of fury...but the body language is poor imo - pure and simple.

 

[maxta]

Add to that.Teams are not chock full of champions like the players you mentioned,teams are lucky to have more than 1 or 2 at any given time,we were blessed to have a few for a number of years,the rarity of them is what makes them champions above others.

Half of the players at Melbourne - are discards and borderline NSW Cup players....as in Chase Blair who was below par winger at Manly...now a solid top grade centre....it's pretty black and white really.
Yes they have stars Smith, Cronk... but individually as players I think it's very obvious they go up a few notches and are expected to, instead of having them think as replacement type players we expect nothing from them...and usually get just that.

 

[Smokin Joe]

They don't seem accountable to themselves, in fact why would they be....always an excuse as to why the intensity is poor....expect little and it's easy pleased right??
The players above would have been poor poker players who gave away their hand....not throw the mouth guard or break lockers, but all can't hide their disappointment....certainly not laughing away looking THAT easy with a loss....even young Jake who is quietly spoken shows passion that can't be hidden.
Did you see Cronk after getting belted 40-0 in THAT GF??
Absolute gentleman and great sportsmanship but was torn and it was very evident....I don't expect tears or fists of fury...but the body language is poor imo - pure and simple.

Getting belted 40-0 is a little bit different,that is getting hammered as the second best team in the comp,not losing your marbles after a poor showing in round 2.I don't see poor body language on the field.The intensity was there in game one and poor bench selection caused them to be buggered in the second and there was no giving in that I saw.You have your view Maxta and I have mine,I will wait and see after a few more rounds with this group and I will give my judgement on where this team truly is.People say excuses,others say reasons,no one is right apart from what they believe in their own mind.

 

[Smokin Joe]

Half of the players at Melbourne - are discards and borderline NSW Cup players....as in Chase Blair who was below par winger at Manly...now a solid top grade centre....it's pretty black and white really.
Yes they have stars Smith, Cronk... but individually as players I think it's very obvious they go up a few notches and are expected to, instead of having them think as replacement type players we expect nothing from them...and usually get just that.

Yeah and if all coaches were as good as Bellamy it would be an easy job wouldn't it?Half the players in most clubs are discards or hopefuls.Blair was there under Tooveys reign not Barrett's.

 

[Smokin Joe]

Do you honestly,truly think that the coach expects nothing from his players?That is insulting......

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Blair was there under Tooveys reign not Barrett's.

Facts get blurred when agendas are on the line!

 

[maxta]

Do you honestly,truly think that the coach expects nothing from his players?That is insulting......

No ..... and that's a poor observation.

I do think ANY coach who wants the best out of their players needs a bar of expectation....continually finding excuses is not 1 of them.

 

[Bearfax]

Jake is the only one who appears to care. Maybe Lawrence is another. The rest - including our captain - just seem to take losses in their stride. No biggee right? And when you get right down to it - why should they care? They're not local juniors for the most part, so "Manly" just equals "My employer", they're still getting paid big bucks (or mega bucks for some), the journeymen are just looking to get some decent coin to fund their retirements, the coach displays zero passion or intimidation factor (nothing to be scared of there), its not like they are going to get dropped, the playing group is a mish-mash with little apparent team spirit or bonding, the captain is more likely to drown you in media cliches than give you a bollocking, etc etc.

Agree I think in part Terry.

But I think the players have a go but some of them are just not up to the task. We have the core of a good side with Tom T, Walker and Kelly, DCE. Jake. Taupau, Lawrence, AFB, Lussick. But they are surrounded by reserve graders or top grade players past their prime. And then of course there are the injuries and suspensions which so far are a continuance of last year it seems with Taupau, AFB, Lussick, Lane, Parker absent just as the season commences.

And in my opinion DCE is trying his heart out and probably overdoing it, leading to errors. He's become tentative in some respects, a consequence of lack of support around him. I saw him a couple of times look around to pass the ball and no one was there. A few of his passes were well off the mark suggesting panic. He's trying, he's just playing behind a weak forward pack at present.

Green needs to step up big time and Barrett needs to rethink his forward pack again until the props are available. Perhaps Amone, certainly Bainbridge for more than 17 minutes, and even someone big and bulky in the reserves who can make ground up the middle. Forget these light weight forwards who should be offering the type of play we had from Buhrer. How we can retain Brown, Winterstein and pick up Kennedy and let go Buhrer just leaves me dumbfounded

 

[maxta]

Facts get blurred when agendas are on the line!

What's your agenda?
Who said anything about Blairs coach at Manly....simply the obvious improvement once he went to Melbourne....do you not see it?

 

[court83]

i think its really pretty simple....

this team is simply not a good team... and it happens.. thats ok... we have some really talented individuals, and they will likely go off over the next few seasons and some will have success elsewhere for sure, but right now, this team, these coaches, these owners, NOTHING about any of this screams this team is good....

because they arnt good...

they will avoid the spoon by the skin of their teeth, and i dare say it will come down to injuries .. eg: rabbits lose reynolds they are f*&ked, eels lose norman they are f*$ked, knights lose hodkinson they are f&%ked etc etc

We are rebuilding, we will be a poor team for the next few years, then the sun will shine again and we will come good... the turbos and cherry will lead this team to a gf again im sure of it, but it wont be with this team of average players in key position (im looking at you green and api) and it wont be with a a puppet head coach and an old man pulling the strings

 

[Smokin Joe]

No ..... and that's a poor observation.

I do think ANY coach who wants the best out of their players needs a bar of expectation....continually finding excuses is not 1 of them.

What is poor about it,you said that they are treated as if nothing is expected of them?And so they act that way on the field.You are saying that Barrett expects nothing from them?

 

[maxta]

What is poor about it,you said that they are treated as if nothing is expected of them?And so they act that way on the field.You are saying that Barrett expects nothing from them?

Wrong again - I don't have a clue how Barrett - "Treats them".
I do however, think he uses rehashed cliches after every loss and personally.....think this creates a feeling that the performances that appear often very poor to myself and many others on here - are acceptable.
Would prefer more fire, not due to the losses - in 2 games we were favoured to win - at home......more the way Manly lost the games.
If you don't agree with the point I'm making and accept these losses as acceptable - good for you.

 

[Smokin Joe]

Wrong again - I don't have a clue how Barrett - "Treats them".
I do however, think he uses rehashed cliches after every loss and personally.....think this creates a feeling that the performances that appear often very poor to myself and many others on here - are acceptable.
Would prefer more fire, not due to the losses - in 2 games we were favoured to win - at home......more the way Manly lost the games.
If you don't agree with the point I'm making and accept these losses as acceptable - good for you.

Not wrong mate,read your post at 12:59 that is exactly what you said,that they are treated as replacement players and expected to perform like that.I don't agree that the losses are acceptable I just don't think the sky is falling...You were also not just talking about players improvement at the storm,you were talking about Barrett's lack of ability to get the best out of players and the storm can, re:Blair. Or are you suggesting that the problem was there before Barrett and that the emotional,heart on the sleeve coach did not get the best out of all his players?Barrett was coach when he got the best out of Vave when Toovey,Flanagan and Bellamy failed to,he also oversaw the return to career best form of Lussick, and AFB turning his life around and looking like a real top prop,he also is coach with Uate looking like rediscovering the fountain of youth,coach when B.Kelly has made the transition smoothly to NRL centre,coach during the Trbojevic bros.time establishing themselves as the best jrs ever,coach when Parker and Bainbridge have been blooded and showing great promise,coach who gave Lawrence the captaincy at the 9's and encouraged him to be a leader and regain his form.No I don't think he is a supercoach and he has a sxxxload to still prove but I don't think he is as bad as indicated.If you disagree with me,then good for you.

 

[yokahontas]

They don't seem accountable to themselves, in fact why would they be....always an excuse as to why the intensity is poor....expect little and it's easy pleased right??
The players above would have been poor poker players who gave away their hand....not throw the mouth guard or break lockers, but all can't hide their disappointment....certainly not laughing away looking THAT easy with a loss....even young Jake who is quietly spoken shows passion that can't be hidden.
Did you see Cronk after getting belted 40-0 in THAT GF??
Absolute gentleman and great sportsmanship but was torn and it was very evident....I don't expect tears or fists of fury...but the body language is poor imo - pure and simple.

You routinely see players cry after losing grand finals - in every sport. The GF winners usually have a few criers as well, for that matter.

I'd be a bit concerned about a player's mental health if he was crying after a Rd 2 match (extenuating circumstances aside, i.e. Dane Gagai getting emotional after a flogging, the week his Nan died last year)

 

[yokahontas]

What's your agenda?
Who said anything about Blairs coach at Manly....simply the obvious improvement once he went to Melbourne....do you not see it?

Look at the players around him at Melbourne - they have a genuine hooker, for starters, and a massive forward pack that do the job of getting them on the front foot. It's a team sport - individuals can be made to look good OR bad by the individuals around them.

Clearing the ball quickly and cleanly out of every ruck gives every other player in the side more time, for starters.

 

[maxta]

Not wrong mate,read your post at 12:59 that is exactly what you said,that they are treated as replacement players and expected to perform like that.I don't agree that the losses are acceptable I just don't think the sky is falling...You were also not just talking about players improvement at the storm,you were talking about Barrett's lack of ability to get the best out of players and the storm can, re:Blair. Or are you suggesting that the problem was there before Barrett and that the emotional,heart on the sleeve coach did not get the best out of all his players?Barrett was coach when he got the best out of Vave when Toovey,Flanagan and Bellamy failed to,he also oversaw the return to career best form of Lussick, and AFB turning his life around and looking like a real top prop,he also is coach with Uate looking like rediscovering the fountain of youth,coach when B.Kelly has made the transition smoothly to NRL centre,coach during the Trbojevic bros.time establishing themselves as the best jrs ever,coach when Parker and Bainbridge have been blooded and showing great promise,coach who gave Lawrence the captaincy at the 9's and encouraged him to be a leader and regain his form.No I don't think he is a supercoach and he has a sxxxload to still prove but I don't think he is as bad as indicated.If you disagree with me,then good for you.

Sorry detective, we have a problem.
At 12.59 - I said Bellamy sets a high bar from his players -ALL of them which then pushes them to reach that bar....compared to our replacements who are being touted as simply that - replacements....
Due to the way these Melbourne players perform, its obvious having high expectations of players instead of after a loss - blaming - because we had this or that player out - which in MY opinion reflects on the blokes replacing them.
If you stepped up to fill for anything in life - work/footy and the end result was poor - and the boss says - our main bloke was out - you don't see that as a reflection of your efforts??
I Do.
My opinion is - they are fighting for a spot and have plenty to prove - as in Lane this Saturday - I expect a big game and him to hold his spot - prove his worth.
This has nothing to do with how Barrett treats them individually - seems like a nice bloke - maybe too nice.
As for getting the best out of all these players mentioned above - It's Good for me - I disagree with you.

 

[maxta]

You routinely see players cry after losing grand finals - in every sport. The GF winners usually have a few criers as well, for that matter.

I'd be a bit concerned about a player's mental health if he was crying after a Rd 2 match (extenuating circumstances aside, i.e. Dane Gagai getting emotional after a flogging, the week his Nan died last year)

This crying infactuation is a worry - maybe just look a little pissed off is good enough - no mental health with that - more a reaction in professional sport with most competitive players.
Probably doesn't really relate to the death part neither- wrong thread.

 

[yokahontas]

This crying infactuation is a worry - maybe just look a little pissed off is good enough - no mental health with that - more a reaction in professional sport with most competitive players.
Probably doesn't really relate to the death part neither- wrong thread.

Lol...I meant more that it isn't really a good comparison to look at how one player reacted to a GF loss, versus how another player reacted to a Rd 2 loss.

Might mean 'don't care', might also mean well aware it's a long season, and basic sports psychology says don't get worked up over the minor setbacks. Save the tears or whatever for the ones that matter in the big picture.

 

[maxta]

Lol...I meant more that it isn't really a good comparison to look at how one player reacted to a GF loss, versus how another player reacted to a Rd 2 loss.

Might mean 'don't care', might also mean well aware it's a long season, and basic sports psychology says don't get worked up over the minor setbacks. Save the tears or whatever for the ones that matter in the big picture.

All good mate....I get it...points taken
Jake looks teary after losing, which is also ok and others deal with it differently, a little pi##ed off, go quiet or whatever....
Simply think it's all a little too easily accepted ATM ....too many outs as to why....almost seems defeatist in attitude at times....it's just my feeling on it, for right or wrong.
Hoping for a memorable victory Sat night to swing the season around.