Manase Fainu

[stoodamire]

Devils advocate here.
Manase does have the option to have a judge alone trial, which he has opted against.
One could argue he has the chance to get this sorted sooner rather than later.

 

[Dion Johnson]

Devils advocate here.
Manase does have the option to have a judge alone trial, which he has opted against.
One could argue he has the chance to get this sorted sooner rather than later.

In this scenario would the witnesses still be required??

 

[Captain Moondog]

I wonder if Fainu has read Kafka

"And in that recurring dream, I found myself trapped in some sort of gigantic game of which I was unfamiliar with the rules; lost in a labyrinthine town of dark and damp, criss-crossing streets, ambiguous characters of uncertain authority having no idea of why I was there nor what I had to do, and where the first sign of the beginning of understanding was the wish to die.”
― Franz Kafka

 

[Stewbojevic]

Sounds like he could’ve opted for a judge-only trial and had it now.

Devils advocate here.
Manase does have the option to have a judge alone trial, which he has opted against.
One could argue he has the chance to get this sorted sooner rather than later.

I was wondering why he turned that option down… is it more likely to be a favourable outcome with a jury?

 

[Shoe1]

Yes

 

[QueefRichards]

I think this is not in line with community expectations at all

The no fault stand down was implemented in line with community expectations of a justice system that doesn't take three years to actually go to trial after charges being laid

 

[Scorpio]

Can some of our resident legal eagles (see what I did there) summarise the pros and cons of a judge-only versus jury trial? Preferably with examples...

I am guessing there is a very good reason why the option of a judge-only trial with relatively minimal delay was passed up in favour of a 12-month (possibly longer) delay for a jury trial.

 

[Damien2812]

Something needs to be done regarding the time he has been out of the game due to court dates being postponed and the victim being away from the court trial.

 

[Brisbane Tragic]

Can some of our resident legal eagles (see what I did there) summarise the pros and cons of a judge-only versus jury trial? Preferably with examples...

I am guessing there is a very good reason why the option of a judge-only trial with relatively minimal delay was passed up in favour of a 12-month (possibly longer) delay for a jury trial.

I would guess that with a jury - doesn't it have to be unanimous so there are 12 jurors - so you have 12 chances of finding that one person who is on your side. With a judge only - it is just a judge who will totally base it on the facts and the evidence as they see it - so only one chance?

 

[Little Grubber Kick]

I would guess that with a jury - doesn't it have to be unanimous so there are 12 jurors - so you have 12 chances of finding that one person who is on your side. With a judge only - it is just a judge who will totally base it on the facts and the evidence as they see it - so only one chance?

most of the travesties of justice around the world in recent times appear to revolve around 'judge only'. Would seem pretty self explanatory that there was a very good reason that juries were accepted as the 'fair go' back when we had a civilised society (pre mob rule social media moron society).

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

I was wondering why he turned that option down… is it more likely to be a favourable outcome with a jury?

If you are the prosecutor - Yes. You only have to persuade one person, not 12, and chances are the judge is a former prosecutor with a natural inclination to listen favourably to prosecution witnesses.
There are some judges who have a keen sense of the meaning of reasonable doubt. But you don't get to choose your judge. So very few scenarios in which you would opt for that option, especially if you are on bail and have a decent chance of winning.

 

[Dion Johnson]

most of the travesties of justice around the world in recent times appear to revolve around 'judge only'. Would seem pretty self explanatory that there was a very good reason that juries were accepted as the 'fair go' back when we had a civilised society (pre mob rule social media moron society).

The Richard Wershe junior case is a good example of your point and how corrupt politicians and senior law enforcement jailed him for 29 years.

 

[joeboy]

I would hope and expect our club has raised this new (non) development with the NRL. This is not what the no fault rule was about and it needs to be addressed.

 

[Brisbane Tragic]

If you are the prosecutor - Yes. You only have to persuade one person, not 12, and chances are the judge is a former prosecutor with a natural inclination to listen favourably to prosecution witnesses.
There are some judges who have a keen sense of the meaning of reasonable doubt. But you don't get to choose your judge. So very few scenarios in which you would opt for that option, especially if you are on bail and have a decent chance of winning.

I would gather you would go judge only if it was a very legalistic case and you were confident on legal/technical grounds you had a great defence.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Yep. Or if you were bail refused and were getting close to having already served the amount of time you'd get if you are found guilty.
Judges apparently are 'rewarding' defendants who opt for judge alone but are found guity, by giving a little discount on sentence for having aided in the administration of justice during the pandemic. For someone like Fainu though, a finding of guilt would have such consequences that he would not take any risk of harming his chances. Opting judge alone would definitely be a risk.

 

[Brisbane Tragic]

Yes huge if given supposedly there are "witnesses" IDing Fainu as the attacker. The defence will need to present a great counter argument - to nullify and they just have to find that one person who believes them.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

If that's what the case comes down to then the counter argument is pretty simple, those witnesses are either mistaken or lying. You'd expect that the cross examination of those witnesses will be what the case turns on.

 

[Will on the hill]

Very disappointing news but I will play devils advocate and say can the league really tolerate having a player with such heinous charges hanging over them be highlighted in their product. Every time said player was mentioned it would be followed by "said player allegedly did such and such". "Allegedly" is used as a shield for media outlets but the average punter doesn't pay attention to it. NFS has been challenged by the RLPA and was found to be legally sound. It's here to stay.

 

[EOL now nesting on the GC]

The court case will be end of lock down Sydney plus 4 weeks. A few of my cases have been deferred as such. Some will be be extended as there is a back log and they will defer cases to get rid of the shorter simpler cases. Wouldn't be holding my breathe for a resolution this year. The timing will be affected by Lawyer availability, witness availability and jurors being available.

Having lived thru and continuing to live thru covid 19 in the UK I almost gaurentee younif the Australian Government's continue to chase the golden goose number of zero cases then the sydney lockdown will be in place till next year.

 

[Dion Johnson]

Very disappointing news but I will play devils advocate and say can the league really tolerate having a player with such heinous charges hanging over them be highlighted in their product. Every time said player was mentioned it would be followed by "said player allegedly did such and such". "Allegedly" is used as a shield for media outlets but the average punter doesn't pay attention to it. NFS has been challenged by the RLPA and was found to be legally sound. It's here to stay.

It’s a valid point you raise in regards to the NRL protecting its brand, however look at recent history in Brett Stewart left to hang by the NRL at the time and no support, we know how this ended up.

If the case against Manase is driven by lies and possible financial gain to others from this, the NRL again has hung an innocent individual out to dry for 2 years and counting now.

Ghey need to address the stand down as it’s a dinosaur rule.