Left side defence

[frank stokes]

Left defense a problem ? Yes
Left attack a f...ing nightmare.

Yet Suli, the only threat on the right , rarely gets the ball.

Eight tries in total on left and right edges in 12 games.That is beyond comprehension at first grade level for a side who gets talked about as a top 4 threat.The Penrith winger has played 1.5 games and scored 6.

You can teach blokes to communicate and stick to a structure. You can’t coach speed and footwork

Yes but if that defence was communicating and sticking to the structure last night Susan then we have a major problem with the structure...

 

[court83]

Parker must get a solid 10 hours sleep every night... he's knocked out cold the minute his head hits his pillow.
Gotta be his last year in first grade.
The game has passed Jorge by. He was a solid winger for most of his career, but he can't catch, he can't contest attacking kicks, he can defend against opponents attacking kicks, and now he can't stay on his bloody sideline either... every play he shoots in for the big hero shot and leaves a wide open path to the tryline..
We can't win a premiership with these 2 on the left.. surely there's a few players in reggies that are better options, otherwise what the he'll do we bother carrying reggie teams for.

 

[susan]

Agree Frank.

One thing I know for certain from the limited coaching I have done. If you want to play compressed up and in defence it requires one essential thing.outside the obvious good communication. SPEED. And since the six again rule it requires A LOT MORE SPEED.

Not hard to work out what’s happening. Just took a slick side on its game to expose it for what it is.

 

[frank stokes]

Agree Frank.

One thing I know for certain from the limited coaching I have done. If you want to play compressed up and in defence it requires one essential thing.outside the obvious good communication. SPEED. And since the six again rule it requires MORE SPEED.

Not hard to work out what’s happening. Just took a slick side on its game to expose it for what it is.

Agree... this has been coming since the drizzle pulled our pants down at the end of Game 1... the thing is that Tom gave us good cover previously where Elliott is just not as good defensively - he doesnt read the play as well and he doesnt stop players as effectively...

 

[Simonmyers11]

Agree Frank.

One thing I know for certain from the limited coaching I have done. If you want to play compressed up and in defence it requires one essential thing.outside the obvious good communication. SPEED. And since the six again rule it requires A LOT MORE SPEED.

Not hard to work out what’s happening. Just took a slick side on its game to expose it for what it is.

Yep, Jorge cannot turn and use his speed or lack of speed to cover slide. Same with Crocker on the inside, very slow.

Walker is a bit of a soft defender in the centres, but at least at 5/8 he jams up and has enough speed never to let a player get on his outside. Unlike Parker, Crocker, Jorge, Elliot. They are just too slow. Speed can score you tries, but also save you tries as well

 

[mave]

Let's gets some blokes with some pace on the paddock then.

 

[John Nicholson]

Do you have stats to back this up?

Haven't found Wally yet!

However, judging by the comments of many educated forum panelists, currently posting on this topic, I would think that they have watched the same game, and they, as well, haven't found Wally yet!

 

[Chip and Chase]

Interesting article below. Those ripping Horhay a new one because he's the worst defender in the comp might want to point out where he and Parker sit on that table of worst defensive combinations. I expected to see them at number one, or at least top 3 going by some of the opinions here.

Be interested to see how that left edge performs tonight with a new combo

Stat Attack: Numbers show how centre-wing duos stack up

Centre-wing pairings ranked in attack and defence.

www.nrl.com

 

[frank stokes]

Interesting article below. Those ripping Horhay a new one because he's the worst defender in the comp might want to point out where he and Parker sit on that table of worst defensive combinations. I expected to see them at number one, or at least top 3 going by some of the opinions here.

Be interested to see how that left edge performs tonight with a new combo

Stat Attack: Numbers show how centre-wing duos stack up

Centre-wing pairings ranked in attack and defence.

www.nrl.com

I would like to see the numbers for line breaks CnC... TT saved LOT of tries for us in cover b4 his injury (not saying they were all on that side tho)...
Personally I think a lot of their misses are caused by defenders closer to the ruck not defending on the outside of their 'man' and lack of trust for each other generally... I have said b4 that poor old Jorge often just gets left holding the can when others dont do their job...

 

[Chip and Chase]

I would like to see the numbers for line breaks CnC... TT saved LOT of tries for us in cover b4 his injury (not saying they were all on that side tho)...
Personally I think a lot of their misses are caused by defenders closer to the ruck not defending on the outside of their 'man' and lack of trust for each other generally... I have said b4 that poor old Jorge often just gets left holding the can when others dont do their job...

Fair comment, but I think I posted this stat somewhere else in another thread about this subject. Following is "line break causes" stats for Manly. Some people just hate on Horhay because he's not 6'5" bomb catching, Usain Bolt like speedster. He's not perfect I'll grant you that, but to call him a useless and pathetic waste of cap space based on his defensive efforts is just not justified. And these stats are up to date including last week where we got ripped apart down that left edge, so take that pretty good Penrith effort out of it and the stats are even more telling on the Left vs Right debate

Line Break Causes

Garrick 12
Suli 7
Horhay 6
DCE 5
Levi 5
Parker 4

Try Causes

Garrick 9
Horhay 8
Elliot 6
Suli 5
DCE 4
Parker 3

 

[frank stokes]

Fair comment, but I think I posted this stat somewhere else in another thread about this subject. Following is "line break causes" stats for Manly. Some people just hate on Horhay because he's not 6'5" bomb catching, Usain Bolt like speedster. He's not perfect I'll grant you that, but to call him a useless and pathetic waste of cap space based on his defensive efforts is just not justified. And these stats are up to date including last week where we got ripped apart down that left edge, so take that pretty good Penrith effort out of it and the stats are even more telling on the Left vs Right debate

Line Break Causes

Garrick 12
Suli 7
Horhay 6
DCE 5
Levi 5
Parker 4

Try Causes

Garrick 9
Horhay 8
Elliot 6
Suli 5
DCE 4
Parker 3

Agree he cops it all the time... gotta admit that I would love to see us scoring tries over the top of people too but maybe I'll focus on replacing Garrick to do so... I am genuinely surprised to see those numbers for Garrick and also your friend DCE...gotta admit that I cannot even remember Daly conceding a line break as he is such a good cover defender but stats dont lie...
Thanks for that CnC - interesting stuff...

 

[Chip and Chase]

Agree he cops it all the time... gotta admit that I would love to see us scoring tries over the top of people too but maybe I'll focus on replacing Garrick to do so... I am genuinely surprised to see those numbers for Garrick and also your friend DCE...gotta admit that I cannot even remember Daly conceding a line break as he is such a good cover defender but stats dont lie...
Thanks for that CnC - interesting stuff...

I've never questioned DCE's defence. He's easily the best defensive halfback in the comp IMO. Some other areas of his game could do with improvement though

The stats will always be biased against right side defences I reckon, because the bulk of players prefer that right to left passing so left side attacks generally seem more fluent. I think the try heat maps will show left hand corner as the most dominant location on the field for tries. What I was hoping to convey was that there is no way our left side defence is as bad as some like to point out. If you look at the missed tackle stats too then it's Levi (31), followed by the right edge of DCE (24), Siro (22) and Garrick (18) as the top 4. Parker and Horhay on about 12 each.

 

[John Nicholson]

I think that some are being carried away with stats, which started in the US zonks ago when baseball stats were published on the back of bubble gum cards ( as an incentive to buy more bubble gum, of course ).

Today's Media are using the same tactic to get you to their site.

Who remembers ever leaving the ground after a loss and saying " I think the left side D was good tonight".

The true analysis is how many tries you score v. how many you defend. Currently we are sitting at 9th having not scored enough and let too many tries in.

The discussion point should be not how many line breaks or try causes, but what players are faster, bigger, more talented who should be selected ahead of someone who "used to be good" or "has improved a bit lately".

 

[Will on the hill]

The left defence was atrocious last week but it's not surprising seeing as we had Thommo carrying an injury with Croker and Waddell (both capable defenders but have very little practice defending in the positions they ended up in) outside of him. Jorge can only be as good as his inside men allow him to be.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Fair comment, but I think I posted this stat somewhere else in another thread about this subject. Following is "line break causes" stats for Manly. Some people just hate on Horhay because he's not 6'5" bomb catching, Usain Bolt like speedster. He's not perfect I'll grant you that, but to call him a useless and pathetic waste of cap space based on his defensive efforts is just not justified. And these stats are up to date including last week where we got ripped apart down that left edge, so take that pretty good Penrith effort out of it and the stats are even more telling on the Left vs Right debate

Line Break Causes

Garrick 12
Suli 7
Horhay 6
DCE 5
Levi 5
Parker 4

Try Causes

Garrick 9
Horhay 8
Elliot 6
Suli 5
DCE 4
Parker 3

Horhay has lots of good points and has been a great player over many years BUT yes he’s not 6’5, athletic and can jump and sadly that’s the type of players who currently do well.

 

[Simonmyers11]

After 6 six rds Manly's left side defense had conceded the least amount of tries in the NRL. This is when we had a fit Walker and fully fit Thommo who were defending very strong and sliding well together and parker is usually very reliable.

The game last week, both Jorge and parker were guilty of running in when not required, also the inside defenders were a bit slow as well.

I think recently though, teams have worked Jorge out and are moving the ball faster and kicking a lot more to his wing.