Post-Game Discussion Knights V Manly [Round 14, 2025]

[HK_Eagle]

I feel that this is one of those losses where people are letting their frustrations cloud their judgement. I’m gutted by the loss last night but understand how it happened.

Lehi’s injury meant Ben T was in the centres, but that’s only part of the problem. That meant Corey Waddell moved to an edge, straining the middle rotation. Then, Tommy T went off for 15 minutes, which pushed Garrick to the wing and meant Bullemor moved to an edge, putting further strain on the middle rotation.

As the game wore on, the strain on our middle started to show. One could argue that Newcastle lost Friz, and that’s true but they didnt win the game because their middles stood up. It’s also much easier to replace like for like; they’ve got other middles to play that same position. They barely had the ball in our 20m zone all night. We managed their yardage well for 80 minutes. They scored their tries from shifts to the edge where Ben was out of position.

Calling out a 40/20 as some sort of lack of game management is also bizarre. It’s a great tactic to kick early to avoid bringing a team’s back three onto the ball. He fell short by a metre so the opposition starting a set from 21m out, off a slow play the ball against set defence is not mismanagement.

Were we perfect? Of course not. One more ruck forward before shooting a field goal would have been better. A try before halftime was a missed opportunity. Garrick’s relatively missed easy goal to avoid the deadlock, etc. but those things happen.

I saw a lot of effort last night but the team fatigued in the second half due to the middle rotation so we couldn’t get a lot momentum with the ball and the Knights scored some good tries exposing our weakened edges. That’s how we lost, not some ‘sack Seibold’ ‘get DCE out before the deadline’ ‘sack Ben T’ narrative.

Plenty of good points in that post, LC, and much of it fair and accurate.

Have to disagree with the framing of the bolded paragraph. Yes, a 40/20 can be a smart move in the right context. We had just started the second half, 16-0 up with plenty of points left on the table. We had rolled up the field for 65m in the very first set (of the 2nd half) with simple strong runs. We were in decent field position for an attacking bomb. We were then rolling comfortably on the first couple of tackles in the very next set of possession... then, Dollars goes for that 40/20. Why would you not continue to roll up the middle, take an attacking kick and pin them down? If we were being pinned down coming out of our end, I could understand the choice. WE weren't. Ironically, Knights lifted after that very kick, and we were then pinned down for many sets after. Why are we so adverse to grinding and learning to play smart % plays?

To further reinforce the "wrong context" perspective, we also have to look at that decision to kick on the third just before half time when we had much better options and were all over them. It's repeated decisions like these that bring Dollar's inability to manage a game into sharp focus., IMO. Way too many low percentage play choices at inopportune times, that come off as ignorant at best. I just don't see a player like Fog making decisions like that in those contexts. Of course, he wont be perfect and we will miss those flashes of brilliance that Dollars provides, but boy, I look forward to some semblance of game management and common sense from a half at Manly after the past decade+

 

[EagleGT]

The worst part of that last try, was the amount of Manly players that where just ball watching. No urgency to try and stop anything from happening. Garrick wasn't even watching the ball, he had his head down running slowly back.

That sums up our team right there and then.They are not playing for each other, its like they didn't give a sh1t

Same with the earlier try to Hunt when he jumped over the top of Faulalo. No-one made the effort to get back in case of error. Koula just stood 20m away watching - never headed toward the ball until it was in Hunt's hands. Hunt had time to fall over and was still able to crawl to the line without anyone touching him. FFS.

 

[LeonardCohen]

Plenty of good points in that post, LC, and much of it fair and accurate.

Have to disagree with the framing of the bolded paragraph. Yes, a 40/20 can be a smart move in the right context. We had just started the second half, 16-0 up with plenty of points left on the table. We had rolled up the field for 65m in the very first set (of the 2nd half) with simple strong runs. We were in decent field position for an attacking bomb. We were then rolling comfortably on the first couple of tackles in the very next set of possession... then, Dollars goes for that 40/20. Why would you not continue to roll up the middle, take an attacking kick and pin them down? If we were being pinned down coming out of our end, I could understand the choice. WE weren't. Ironically, Knights lifted after that very kick, and we were then pinned down for many sets after. Why are we so adverse to grinding and learning to play smart % plays?

To further reinforce the "wrong context" perspective, we also have to look at that decision to kick on the third just before half time when we had much better options and were all over them. It's repeated decisions like these that bring Dollar's inability to manage a game into sharp focus., IMO. Way too many low percentage play choices at inopportune times, that come off as ignorant at best. I just don't see a player like Fog making decisions like that in those contexts. Of course, he wont be perfect and we will miss those flashes of brilliance that Dollars provides, but boy, I look forward to some semblance of game management and common sense from a half at Manly after the past decade+

I think you’ve presented a fair case to the contrary. I was disappointed with the kick for Faulalo late in the 1st half. I felt we had them shot to bits and should have jagged another try before half time.

As for the 40/20, I don’t mind so much but take your point. I feel we win with Hoppa at the back and Ben on an edge so I’m not gonna jump at shadows.

 

[Brookie1973]

Yeah and we are Manly, not Melbourne. They aren’t that far behind us that a few injuries can’t bridge the divide.

According to the coach, we are in a premiership window. If we were beaten by Melbourne, or a top 4 or top 8 side, fair enough. But we were beaten by the Knights. I’m sorry, I respect your opinions, but if we start excusing losses to teams like the Knights, we may as well give it up.

 

[LeonardCohen]

According to the coach, we are in a premiership window. If we were beaten by Melbourne, or a top 4 or top 8 side, fair enough. But we were beaten by the Knights. I’m sorry, I respect your opinions, but if we start excusing losses to teams like the Knights, we may as well give it up.

I see it as reality rather than excuses but also respect your take on things. We are united in our disappointment!

 

[Brookie1973]

I see it as reality rather than excuses but also respect your take on things. We are united in our disappointment!

Disappointment doesn’t begin to cover it. Gutted.

 

[HK_Eagle]

I think you’ve presented a fair case to the contrary. I was disappointed with the kick for Faulalo late in the 1st half. I felt we had them shot to bits and should have jagged another try before half time.

As for the 40/20, I don’t mind so much but take your point. I feel we win with Hoppa at the back and Ben on an edge so I’m not gonna jump at shadows.

I also don't mind a 40/20 (and Dollars has pulled off plenty of them in the past, much to our delight). Watching his performance last night gave me the impression he was not playing for a team win as priority. His decision-making struck me as trying to have a spectacular individual game, and unfortunately for us, it didn't work. IMO, he could have steered us to a win with a more conservative team-first approach... Again, just my hypothesis. It certainly wasn't the sole reason we lost, and you covered many of the overall challenges very well in your post... just think Dollars could have (and probably should have) been the difference between a win and loss last night.

Anyway, LC, I'm sure we are all feeling frustrated and gutted after that performance. I also take on your view that it's probably a true reflection of where this club is at in practical terms. Sad.

 

[JakeyB789]

$CE has not kicked a 40/20 this year and has 2 in each of the last 2 years. For the amount of times he's attempted them I'd say his strike rate would be around 5%. Makes sense given low percentage plays are in his DNA

 

[Sheikheagle]

Frustrating game. If Hoppa hadn't gone off we would have won handily. Every time we have a chance to climb the ladder we blow it.

Hoppa was a big out. Koula played strongly however he has a different skillset than hoppa. Lehi is much more calm and assured at the back and his positional play is outstanding. Plays a much better link role and has a significantly better passing game.

 

[Kalvin]

i thought our experienced players were OK. The problem was the torching of our edges where we had players out of the position. It’s not like we made errors down our own end and fridges the Knights cheap ball. They’d just get to halfway and shift and open up our edge and score a great try. That’s not on our experienced players.

Agreed re our edges being dog 💩 however let me provide a few examples just off the top of my head:

• dce kicking on tackle 3 in first half when we had them on the ropes at 16 nil
• Garrick missing a sitter from basically infront
• dce kicking out on the full in the 2nd half (i think trying to find touch)
• Brooks kicking a terrible bomb giving them a 7 tackle set
• Brooks giving to much space to their winger to brush away from him with pace to score
• Garrick not passing to an open winger for a try
• poor setup for a field goal by both halves

Not having a crack at you personally but there was so many poor efforts from some of these guys who aren't spring chickens Imo. I may be being over critical but just really disappointed with their efforts last night... no one stood up when it mattered

 

[mave]

Everyone bagging the coach for not carrying an outside back on the bench must have forgotten the bagging he also copped for Clayton not being required , sitting on the bench, for a few games.....wasting a bench spot.

 

[Wombat Junior]

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• Yesterday at 7:16 PM
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• #103

I say watch out for both the fletchers, fletcher hunt has been impressive the last two weeks and will not shy away from a contest in the air and has a great leap on him, don’t let fletcher sharpe run!! one tackle bust and it’s try time for him

I don’t mean to makeshift quote myself but WTF DID I SAY I genuinely woke up this morning thinking it was a nightmare and realised it was real and the pit in my stomach came back.

 

[kav]

Can't score a try if you don't have the f&$@$&ing ball. Why kick the f&$@$&$ing thing early when your dominating - dumb dumb dumb but not the first time the imbecile in the 7 does dumb s&@t. I'm so over him - won nothing since he has been the marquee player.

You have to give him credit for the win against Broncos

 

[mave]

I've also been racking my brains trying to remember what last night reminded me of.


We all grew up revelling in the Bears snatching defeat from the jaws of victory time after time.

That's now us.

 

[Seagles68]

Good thing we spent all of season training to manage chaos.

I was thinking the same thing.

 

[BOZO]

Everyone bagging the coach for not carrying an outside back on the bench must have forgotten the bagging he also copped for Clayton not being required , sitting on the bench, for a few games.....wasting a bench spot.

A head coach has a big impact on his team in so many ways
Most coaches use Utility players on the bench that can play in the backs
At the end of the day the coach is accountable for the playing squads he gathers
The positions he plays his players and the game plan he has them playing .
The spirited and resilient culture he cultivates
A Great Head coach is the Mother of all Great Mentors

 

[Brookie1973]

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• Yesterday at 7:16 PM
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I say watch out for both the fletchers, fletcher hunt has been impressive the last two weeks and will not shy away from a contest in the air and has a great leap on him, don’t let fletcher sharpe run!! one tackle bust and it’s try time for him

I don’t mean to makeshift quote myself but WTF DID I SAY I genuinely woke up this morning thinking it was a nightmare and realised it was real and the pit in my stomach came back.

Are you available to coach?

 

[kav]

WHAT THE ** IS THIS ABSOLUTE ING STUPID * SHOW OF A CLUB *

**** THIS TEAM OFF NOW

sorry

I had to let that out

Feeling better now? This is a very close competition and we were not helped by the early loss of Lehi the HIA suffered by Tommy Talau and only forwards on the bench.

Is anyone really surprised. We can’t win 2 in a row. We just can’t.

Be positive - have we lost two in row?

 

[Wombat Junior]

Everyone bagging the coach for not carrying an outside back on the bench must have forgotten the bagging he also copped for Clayton not being required , sitting on the bench, for a few games.....wasting a bench spot.

I don't think we need to carry an outside back on the bench, it's very rare you have that much disruption to your backline, you're more likely to lose a forward and we can't afford to lose another forward rotation because dad's army can barely keep up already, the only options that other teams have are having a versatile 14 that can play a number of positions or they have a player on field that can easily slip into the backline.

 

[kav]

True it did... I will accept that. We would have stumbled through and won if they stayed on the field.

But that Knights team are awful, they had a stack of injuries and dropped more.ball then they will all year and were totally down on confidence. Yet we collapsed.


We are just not good

I’m in the ‘injuries cost us and meant we had players exploited out of position’ camp but…

What perplexed me was the field goal attempt from Brooks. There were still 17 seconds on the clock. We should have taken one more hit up and got closer to the posts. Why we kicked from 40m was beyond me. It could have been Daly kicking from 30m and I would back him every day of the week.

I thought that it would have been better to pass to Brooks first and then he pass across the ruck to Daly. Another hit up definitely would have been the way to go if it was on the 4th tackle
Easy in hindsight