Keith Titmuss RIP

davohan123

First Grader
Premium Member
Tipping Member

Club statement.

All I will say is I stopped reading when someone considered it appropriate to have the words climate change.

A very Sad day.
I have disliked the post from the club not your post which I agree with 1000%

this statement is very sad from the club why anyone would think to include climate change in such a tragic circumstance and media post is beyond me.
 
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davohan123

First Grader
Premium Member
Tipping Member
I totally agree @Isz, you're being kind with only saying "a million steps back".

I've been a supporter of the Club for over 38 years both as a young child and now in a financial capacity as an adult.

I've endured some of the most inept performances by players on the field, staff and management off the field however, the statement released today was an abhorrence in both the use of words and message conveyed.

It is revolting, insulting and quite frankly, arrogant.

I'll be calling the club to convey my feelings and also asking them to retract the statement, with admission, hopefully clarifying their intent, rather than their ineptitude.

I hope they DO NOT try and remove this page OR "update" it, it will be too late as I know two media outlets are already planning to make that idiotic claim front and centre of articles, as they should.

I can't believe what I just read.

Disgraceful and hopefully certain posters who have the ear of the Club make it known that they have made a fool of themselves AND us, the supporters, too.
1000% agree we never learn as a club just amateur hour at its best
 
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BOZO

Journey Man
Tipping Member
I totally agree @Isz, you're being kind with only saying "a million steps back".

I've been a supporter of the Club for over 38 years both as a young child and now in a financial capacity as an adult.

I've endured some of the most inept performances by players on the field, staff and management off the field however, the statement released today was an abhorrence in both the use of words and message conveyed.

It is revolting, insulting and quite frankly, arrogant.

I'll be calling the club to convey my feelings and also asking them to retract the statement, with admission, hopefully clarifying their intent, rather than their ineptitude.

I hope they DO NOT try and remove this page OR "update" it, it will be too late as I know two media outlets are already planning to make that idiotic claim front and centre of articles, as they should.

I can't believe what I just read.

Disgraceful and hopefully certain posters who have the ear of the Club make it known that they have made a fool of themselves AND us, the supporters, too.
First of all I want to say that I admire your loyalty and support for our legendary club over the past 38 years and In those years our Great club has given loyal supporters like you more highs than lows than the majority of clubs in the NRL

The Manly Club is regarded Historically as one of the Great clubs in the NRL having won a grand final every decade since the 70's and proudly holds the record of the biggest wining grand final margin .

I feel your sentiment and passion in this tragic time but I do not see any Disgraceful or Disrespectful remarks from our clubs statement
I am all for objective point of views and Reading our clubs statement I feel the same deep sorrow and respect for the Keiths family and friends .

Club Statement
At the outset, the Manly Warringah Sea Eagles Rugby League Club expresses its deepest condolences to Keith’s family and friends. In particular, to Keith’s mum Lafo, his dad Paul, his brother Jesse, and his sister Zara, Manly acknowledges the loss of your beloved son and brother.

Keith was highly respected by his teammates and coaching staff. He was also loved for his gentle and kind nature and he was a true team player. He played rugby league from the age of 5 and with Manly since he was a young teenager. He was a huge talent, with a natural gift for the game he loved so much.

Keith’s death shocked and devastated the Club, its staff and players. He will not be forgotten, and to honour him, the Club posthumously named Keith as Sea Eagles’ first-grade player number 623.

Manly welcomes the opportunity to be involved in this inquest. We hope it will provide some answers for Keith’s family and help to manage the risks that come from playing elite rugby league. At the end of last year, expert medical reports were distributed by the team assisting the Coroner that identified for the first time, that the cause of Keith’s death was exertional heat stroke. That evidence provides the Coroner’s Court with an important opportunity to enhance player safety and welfare, particularly in this era of climate change. The Court will hear the steps taken by Manly, and also the NRL, in response to the issues recently highlighted by the evidence served.

All Manly staff, and no doubt many players across all teams, will be following the inquest. Both Manly and the NRL prioritise player safety and welfare, including during this inquest, and will continue to provide support to Keith’s teammates and friends.
 
I could never understand the purpose of training in such heat it’s not the only way to get fit.On hot days as that it should be done indoors or late evenings.I played state league soccer in my younger years & never trained in heat like that.
 

AndWeDon'tCare

Reserve Grader
First of all I want to say that I admire your loyalty and support for our legendary club over the past 38 years and In those years our Great club has given loyal supporters like you more highs than lows than the majority of clubs in the NRL

The Manly Club is regarded Historically as one of the Great clubs in the NRL having won a grand final every decade since the 70's and proudly holds the record of the biggest wining grand final margin .

I feel your sentiment and passion in this tragic time but I do not see any Disgraceful or Disrespectful remarks from our clubs statement
I am all for objective point of views and Reading our clubs statement I feel the same deep sorrow and respect for the Keiths family and friends .

Club Statement
At the outset, the Manly Warringah Sea Eagles Rugby League Club expresses its deepest condolences to Keith’s family and friends. In particular, to Keith’s mum Lafo, his dad Paul, his brother Jesse, and his sister Zara, Manly acknowledges the loss of your beloved son and brother.

Keith was highly respected by his teammates and coaching staff. He was also loved for his gentle and kind nature and he was a true team player. He played rugby league from the age of 5 and with Manly since he was a young teenager. He was a huge talent, with a natural gift for the game he loved so much.

Keith’s death shocked and devastated the Club, its staff and players. He will not be forgotten, and to honour him, the Club posthumously named Keith as Sea Eagles’ first-grade player number 623.

Manly welcomes the opportunity to be involved in this inquest. We hope it will provide some answers for Keith’s family and help to manage the risks that come from playing elite rugby league. At the end of last year, expert medical reports were distributed by the team assisting the Coroner that identified for the first time, that the cause of Keith’s death was exertional heat stroke. That evidence provides the Coroner’s Court with an important opportunity to enhance player safety and welfare, particularly in this era of climate change. The Court will hear the steps taken by Manly, and also the NRL, in response to the issues recently highlighted by the evidence served.

All Manly staff, and no doubt many players across all teams, will be following the inquest. Both Manly and the NRL prioritise player safety and welfare, including during this inquest, and will continue to provide support to Keith’s teammates and friends.

@BOZO I admire your tenacious, steadfast support for the Club, it is commendable and I hope it continues forever more.

However, if you can not see how the intent of what the Club has "tried" to convey in the statement, was undone, I'm sorry, I should say obliterated, by trying to "tie in" climate change and even worse, the use of the text "... particularity in this era of..." then I'm saddened by the thought that you believe the statement hasn't lost its purpose, undone by those who authored and approved its release.

The reason or reasons behind the death of this young man shouldn't be "diminished" or "enhanced" due to an "era", that is an astounding juxtaposition in light of the first day of the inquest.
 

Ron E. Gibbs

First Grader
I could never understand the purpose of training in such heat it’s not the only way to get fit.On hot days as that it should be done indoors or late evenings.I played state league soccer in my younger years & never trained in heat like that.
Going from Josh Schuster's testimony today, I think the training session was indoors. And looking back at Sydney's weather on the day it happened (Monday, November 23, 2020), I don't think it was a particularly hot day. Temperature was around 27-28 degrees. But Schuster said the temperature inside the gym was the "hottest" he'd ever experienced.

As others have said, we really need to see what else comes to light.

I'd always assumed the training and medical staff, and then the paramedics and doctors after that, did everything they could, and that it was just one of those "freak" incidents. But if it turns out he wasn't given the proper treatment…
 

40 nil

It's only a game ...
"That evidence provides the Coroner’s Court with an important opportunity to enhance player safety and welfare, particularly in this era of climate change."
I think this part of the statement is badly worded. Proofreading should have been more thorough before releasing a statement on such a delicate issue. I think it should have read:

'The evidence provided to the Coroner's Court is an important opportunity to enhance player safety & welfare, particularly in this era of climate change'.

This would have linked seamlessly with the next sentences:

'The Court will hear the steps taken by Manly, and also the NRL, in response to the issues recently highlighted by the evidence served.'

(Also, I don't think it served any purpose referencing climate change.)
 

XV-1

First Grader
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Eagles4Life

Bencher
Premium Member
Tipping Member
@BOZO I admire your tenacious, steadfast support for the Club, it is commendable and I hope it continues forever more.

However, if you can not see how the intent of what the Club has "tried" to convey in the statement, was undone, I'm sorry, I should say obliterated, by trying to "tie in" climate change and even worse, the use of the text "... particularity in this era of..." then I'm saddened by the thought that you believe the statement hasn't lost its purpose, undone by those who authored and approved its release.

The reason or reasons behind the death of this young man shouldn't be "diminished" or "enhanced" due to an "era", that is an astounding juxtaposition in light of the first day of the inquest.
Did the club not think to run this statement via Peggy Dwyer's office before releasing it? @AndWeDon'tCare
 

SeaEagleRock8

Sea Eagle Lach
Premium Member
Tipping Member
Did the club not think to run this statement via Peggy Dwyer's office before releasing it? @AndWeDon'tCare
I don't think it's so much a legal issue. Just awful optics, for the club to appear to be arse covering and muddying waters, rather than respectfully facing up to this public examination of whether it failed to protect Keith.

The 'Manly Media' statement says the club has known since late last year the finding of death by exertional heat stroke. They have had so much time to prepare a very short, appropriate public statement ahead of the coronial inquest. Yet instead came up with this?

It does not sound at all like something Mestrov would say. He's shown himself to be professional in his CEO role so far. So it doesn't surprise me that this statement did not carry his name. Is it reasonable to assume 'someone' pulled rank on him over this statement?

Why include the fact Manly has honoured Keith by giving him a number? To really honour Keith, the club should simply commit to cooperating fully with the inquiry.

Instead, to waffle on about ways the club has honoured Keith ... and about how the Court has an opportunity to enhance player safety... and about climate change ...and about steps Manly has taken since the tragedy ... and to proclaim that Manly prioritises player safety and welfare - all this is just an incredibly clumsy way to attempt to obscure the reality here.

Which is that this will a public examination of whether the club failed to prioritise player safety and welfare. Failed in its duty of care to protect its employee. In other words, did the kid die because of incompetence or even negligence on the part of Manly?? Let's hope not. But with the finding on cause of death, this is a live question.

We can't bring Keith back but this is not the time to be feeding Manly members and fans, and the general public, platitudes about what a great club we are. Just face up to it, it's a tough situation, all the club should be doing is promising to fully cooperate and to act on any findings.
 

krusty

Member
Tipping Member
I could never understand the purpose of training in such heat it’s not the only way to get fit.On hot days as that it should be done indoors or late evenings.I played state league soccer in my younger years & never trained in heat like that.
According to this article it was 24.9 degrees and the training session was a 7/10 intensity.

 

double hoops

First Grader

krusty

Member
Tipping Member
Which only makes the club media statement mentioning climate change even more inappropriate.
Try not to focus on this one sentence. I just see it as a we have been doing this for 75+ years, the environment is changing we need to do better and change our ways to cope with a changing environment. I don’t see it as an excuse. I agree the sentence wasn’t needed but it’s not the atrocity it’s being made out to be in this forum.
 

BOZO

Journey Man
Tipping Member
We can't bring Keith back but this is not the time to be feeding Manly members and fans, and the general public, platitudes about what a great club we are. Just face up to it, it's a tough situation, all the club should be doing is promising to fully cooperate and to act on any findings.
The facts are and you are right that Sadly we can not bring back Keith .

Manly is a Great club and it is well documented from past and present players that the Manly club environment is happy place where players and their families are looked after

It is a tough situation and the club is involved and cooperating on any findings
I do not see any indication that our club is not fully cooperating
 

BOZO

Journey Man
Tipping Member
Climate Change please. How warm are Brisbane, Townsville, Cairns compared to Sydne y. Should NRL be banned from being played any where that gets warmer than Sydney?
This is a Good point you make with the peak preseason higher temperatures and higher humidity that players face up North
On the Manly tragic preseason training day the temp was 24.9 degrees and that is winter weather up North
I remember doing sprints in the 30 degree summer up the steep Cronulla sand dunes where your feet sink deeply in the sand with every stride you make and vomiting green liquid on the way down
I did have a water bottle with me even though the water was as hot as tea water
The point I am making is that I am not tougher than any one else to have avoided a fatal collapse
The Point is that it is all in our DNA make up on how much each of our bodies and organs can endure .
The other point is the the most important point in this case is the diligence of the training/medical staff to monitor players health welfare . The inquiry will get to the bottom of this
 

BOZO

Journey Man
Tipping Member
@BOZO I admire your tenacious, steadfast support for the Club, it is commendable and I hope it continues forever more.

However, if you can not see how the intent of what the Club has "tried" to convey in the statement, was undone, I'm sorry, I should say obliterated, by trying to "tie in" climate change and even worse, the use of the text "... particularity in this era of..." then I'm saddened by the thought that you believe the statement hasn't lost its purpose, undone by those who authored and approved its release.

The reason or reasons behind the death of this young man shouldn't be "diminished" or "enhanced" due to an "era", that is an astounding juxtaposition in light of the first day of the inquest.
I can understand what you are saying feathered friend
But I can also see that our club is fully cooperating in this investigation
 
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BOZO

Journey Man
Tipping Member
The Greatest thing I believe can come out of this Inquiry
Is our Clubs undeniable Integrity and Accountability
It wont Bring Keith back as life is valued above anything else
The next greatest value is our Integrity and Accountability
 

The Wheel

https://membership.seaeagles.com.au/
Premium Member
Try not to focus on this one sentence. I just see it as a we have been doing this for 75+ years, the environment is changing we need to do better and change our ways to cope with a changing environment. I don’t see it as an excuse. I agree the sentence wasn’t needed but it’s not the atrocity it’s being made out to be in this forum.
Well said mate
 

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