Jamil Hopoate: Jail saved my life

[Jerry1]

Might surprise you Jerry but Manly doesnt play its matches on the Corso. Nor do kids play in the NSW Cup and NRL. Whether he plays or not has no bearing on what happens on the Corso. And there is no suggestion that Jamil has ever attacked children, nor is it likely that he would.

But no I dont have children, but just to let you know I'm not talking nonsense, I ran an emergency half way house for street kids for almost 2 years when I was 22. And before I retired I was a parole officer for over three decades. So I think I know a little about criminality and the likelihood of changed behaviour.

Thing is Jerry no one can predict if someone is going to commit a crime other than looking at the factors in the life that could lead in that direction. Jamil might well reoffend. I dont know. You might offend. But offending such as displayed by Jamil is often related to associations and attitudes at that time. He is more likely not to offend if he is occupied and doing something he likes, than if he is not. But he might. So might anyone. But giving someone the chance to prove themselves is far better than denying opportunities if they have shown they are trying. He was punished severely which was good. He needed a taste of where his behaviour was leading him.

Different to Carney who was treated by the League with kid gloves. I said then he was likely to reoffend and he did. Important to pay the penalty and learn the lesson rather than feel sorry for them. And I'm not feeling sorry for him. I think he deserved his gaol time. But if he tries to reform, we should give him that opportunity. If he fails, hit him hard again.

Might surprise you Jerry but Manly doesnt play its matches on the Corso. Nor do kids play in the NSW Cup and NRL. Whether he plays or not has no bearing on what happens on the Corso. And there is no suggestion that Jamil has ever attacked children, nor is it likely that he would.

But no I dont have children, but just to let you know I'm not talking nonsense, I ran an emergency half way house for street kids for almost 2 years when I was 22. And before I retired I was a parole officer for over three decades. So I think I know a little about criminality and the likelihood of changed behaviour.

Thing is Jerry no one can predict if someone is going to commit a crime other than looking at the factors in the life that could lead in that direction. Jamil might well reoffend. I dont know. You might offend. But offending such as displayed by Jamil is often related to associations and attitudes at that time. He is more likely not to offend if he is occupied and doing something he likes, than if he is not. But he might. So might anyone. But giving someone the chance to prove themselves is far better than denying opportunities if they have shown they are trying. He was punished severely which was good. He needed a taste of where his behaviour was leading him.

Different to Carney who was treated by the League with kid gloves. I said then he was likely to reoffend and he did. Important to pay the penalty and learn the lesson rather than feel sorry for them. And I'm not feeling sorry for him. I think he deserved his gaol time. But if he tries to reform, we should give him that opportunity. If he fails, hit him hard again.

Firstly, As you are unwilling to answer questions that I asked of you I will answer them for you.
Would you employ a truck driver to drive one of your trucks who ran someone over last year when he was DUI.
No you wouldn't. No one who runs a business would. You would be precluded by many factors including insurance & if they were again caught for any similar offence the publicity would severely affect the image of your company & you as a responsible employer.

I'll ask you again. Do you have kids. Would you be happy dropping them off at the corso knowing Jamil & his buddies were on a night out.
No you wouldn't be happy about it at all. No parent would want to put their kids in a position of potential danger.

I'll move onto your next point.

Manly does not play matches on the corso.
No they don't but they do fund players very well who will go there with a fist full of dollars to party - as happened before. Therefore the club should think twice about who they employ & do due diligence on the people they employ. Health & safety if you like.

I'll move onto your cheap shot after avoiding the above questions by putting on your best politician tactics of avoid the question & insult the intelligence of the opponent by leveling false accusations & misrepresenting what was said before.

And there is no suggestion that Jamil has ever attacked children, nor is it likely that he would.
I clearly stated my kids were age 19 & 20 in my post & that they on occasion go to the Ivanhoe as most kids of their age do. At no point did I even suggest he would attack children. Quite frankly mate you are starting to annoy me. You are loosing the debate so you result to deliberate misrepresentation & avoidance of any points that you find to hard to answer or paint your point of view in a way you cant defend.

Your previous google copy & pastes on discrimination.
As a member of a parole board you would be well aware that if he had been in public service he would have been fired on the spot for not upholding the standards requested & required of a person in their position. Lets say a policeman. Some would consider them a role model not unlike that of a football player. Somebody kids can look up to & respect. Yet one has to uphold standards expected of the community the other can criminally assault people & walk back into the same job he had before prison. The police officer would never to allowed to rejoin the force.
You can copy & paste any of your google searches on discrimination you like but they do not apply to anyone who has been imprisoned for criminally assaulting an innocent member of the public.

Yourself.

All power for you running at halfway house when you were 22 That's a good thing. It's a credit to you.

When I was 22 I had spent all my working life in the army (joined at 16) in places where people like you sent us to keep you safe in your beds. to uphold standards that you seem unable to apply. I have a very clear & moral view of what I think it acceptable. The behavior of Jamil to date in my opinion doesn't warrant him being given the honor to wear maroon & white. The Penns have become the Arthur Daley's of the league. Picking up dodgy low priced players they think they can make a buck out of. Standards have dramatically slipped under this management.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

The worst that can happen... Is he gets on the piss again a kills some poor kid...

Which obviously could happen whether or not he was playing for Manly.

You raise a good question as to whether he's earned the right to wear the Maroon and White. And maybe the entire NRL should have a no-dickhead policy? People like Manu Mau, Packer, Suaia Matagi, Jamil, etc - boot em all. Competitions like NBA don't seem to have players with records for serious violence.

But let's not kid ourselves what that is about - it's to protect the commercial image of the billion dollar industry that is NBA, but no-one pretends it has helped make America a non-violent society. It's just big business saying NIMBY.

It's a tricky issue. But whether or not he's allowed in NRL won't be the thing that stops drunken violence at the Ivanhoe.

 

[Jerry1]

Which obviously could happen whether or not he was playing for Manly.

You raise a good question as to whether he's earned the right to wear the Maroon and White. And maybe the entire NRL should have a no-dickhead policy? People like Manu Mau, Packer, Suaia Matagi, Jamil, etc - boot em all. Competitions like NBA don't seem to have players with records for serious violence.

But let's not kid ourselves what that is about - it's to protect the commercial image of the billion dollar industry that is NBA, but no-one pretends it has helped make America a non-violent society. It's just big business saying NIMBY.

It's a tricky issue. But whether or not he's allowed in NRL won't be the thing that stops drunken violence at the Ivanhoe.

Nope but when my club pays the guy, trains the guy to hit hard, to wrestle, to be aggressive, puts him through intense gym sessions, builds muscles etc etc etc we'd better do be sure the people we are turning into these superhumans are not the type of people to endanger to the community.

 

[tookey]

Fast forward to 2017.......

AFB, Willis Meehan, Jamil Hopoate go out for a lazy few beers in the corso before heading to the X.

Does anyone think there won't be a headline in the DT the next day?

Only chance we have is if Manly employ Beaver as a minder !!!!

I believe that Wills father Kali is the players minder to keep them out of trouble Hasler put a minder on Watmough whenever he went out

 

[Chip and Chase]

Fast forward to 2017.......

AFB, Willis Meehan, Jamil Hopoate go out for a lazy few beers in the corso before heading to the X.

The Cross is dead now so it'd be a boring night for them.

 

[Bearfax]

Jerry, maybe something horrible has happened in your life that has caused you to have such a punitive perspective on offenders. If so I can understand your anger.

But mate we have to deal with reality here. People who serve gaol sentences WILL be released back into the community, and you would be quite surprised just how many live even in your close neighbourhood. The reality is they are there and we have to accept they are part of community. Rejecting them is counterproductive just as it is for instance rejecting Muslims in the community, or people with disabilities or psychiatric disorders or whatever. They are there and we have to accept that. Better to treat them with respect than not, because to isolate them only builds resentment. Disenfranchise people and they lose loyalty to the community and are more likely to act negatively. Accept they are there are part of the community and it actually reduces likely conflict and negative behaviour.

When I suggest giving someone opportunity, I'm not saying we hand out gifts. Opportunities are earned. Give something to someone for free and they come to not respect it. Give something earned and they tend to respect what they have more. If someone works hard at earning something, a reward for such tends to build positive behaviour. Deny it and the person feels unfairly treated and reacts negatively.

Jerry you have to try to place yourself into the head of the other person and see how they potentially will react to certain actions taken. They are more likely to want to continue to behave positively if they are rewarded. Human nature.

One thing I observed in my role with offenders was that those employed were up to four times more likely to not reoffend, than those unemployed. If you think about it, that is logical. Thats why I placed such an important emphasis for positive occupying of time such as employment on those I dealt with. And Jerry, that is over the time I was employed in the role in the many thousands.

Jamil may reoffend but criminologists have found that the probability reduces with certain factors. Employment is a major one, family, associations, substance use, psychological/medical issues, general interests, gambling, attitudes etc. Jamil being employed and therefore more occupied will actually tend to reduce his likelihood of criminal behaviour. Have you not heard the number of sportspeople who have said sport saved them from a life of crime. Vested interests tend to keep us much more on the straight and narrow. There's no guarantees, only greater likelihood. Deny someone like Jamil of positive factors in their life and they are more likely to do what you fear and your sons or young men like them become more at risk. By denying Jamil the opportunity you are actually contributing to a higher risk of criminality based on researched probabilities.

 

[Hamster Huey]

With the core of players we now have in our squad these days, the coach better be careful with his pre-game rev-up to "Take no prisoners!"

Barrett should have seen the warning signs when the players weren't so keen on jumping in the showers after training/games.

 

[Jerry1]

Jerry, maybe something horrible has happened in your life that has caused you to have such a punitive perspective on offenders. If so I can understand your anger.

But mate we have to deal with reality here. People who serve gaol sentences WILL be released back into the community, and you would be quite surprised just how many live even in your close neighbourhood. The reality is they are there and we have to accept they are part of community. Rejecting them is counterproductive just as it is for instance rejecting Muslims in the community, or people with disabilities or psychiatric disorders or whatever. They are there and we have to accept that. Better to treat them with respect than not, because to isolate them only builds resentment. Disenfranchise people and they lose loyalty to the community and are more likely to act negatively. Accept they are there are part of the community and it actually reduces likely conflict and negative behaviour.

When I suggest giving someone opportunity, I'm not saying we hand out gifts. Opportunities are earned. Give something to someone for free and they come to not respect it. Give something earned and they tend to respect what they have more. If someone works hard at earning something, a reward for such tends to build positive behaviour. Deny it and the person feels unfairly treated and reacts negatively.

Jerry you have to try to place yourself into the head of the other person and see how they potentially will react to certain actions taken. They are more likely to want to continue to behave positively if they are rewarded. Human nature.

One thing I observed in my role with offenders was that those employed were up to four times more likely to not reoffend, than those unemployed. If you think about it, that is logical. Thats why I placed such an important emphasis for positive occupying of time such as employment on those I dealt with. And Jerry, that is over the time I was employed in the role in the many thousands.

Jamil may reoffend but criminologists have found that the probability reduces with certain factors. Employment is a major one, family, associations, substance use, psychological/medical issues, general interests, gambling, attitudes etc. Jamil being employed and therefore more occupied will actually tend to reduce his likelihood of criminal behaviour. Have you not heard the number of sportspeople who have said sport saved them from a life of crime. Vested interests tend to keep us much more on the straight and narrow. There's no guarantees, only greater likelihood. Deny someone like Jamil of positive factors in their life and they are more likely to do what you fear and your sons or young men like them become more at risk. By denying Jamil the opportunity you are actually contributing to a higher risk of criminality based on researched probabilities.

Plenty of horrible things have happened in my life. I dealt with them on a case by case basis & moved along without dragging any baggage around with me.

As with most people I never bashed the **** out of an unconscious bloke lying on the floor.

People who do this do not have any compassion or common decency. They are sociopaths not wired the same as the rest of us. You see them in business & you see them on the sporting field & you see them in prison.

I'd be the person who would have stepped in to help the victim in the bashing. Many would walk on by or take their phone out & film it. Some try to defend the sociopathic behavior & look for excuses. Apologists, lefty do gooders. The type of people like judges who let very nasty people out on bail or good behavior bonds only to see the offender commit further atrocities. I probably would have taken a beating but someone has to stand up against thugs like this. Good on the bloke who did. He's the type of bloke who has my respect. Not the thug your in batting for.

Everybody is entitled to respect until they act in a manner that revokes it. Then they have to re-earn that respect. It's a long process. You think because he sat in nick for a year eating three meals a day & playing table tennis atones for the bashing, well I don't.

Now if the bloke now does a couple of years of community service puts back some of what he has taken out then my opinion will change. Looking back at the immediate court appeal that was dismissed (immediately) there is no sense that this bloke accepted the responsibility or showed any remorse that I have seen.

Back to footy.. The manly management could do with a parole officer on board. You should stick your hand up. Another violent criminal signed today.

 

[Bearfax]

You make good points Jerry and I understand your feelings. But the World is not a kind place. Our society has its flaws but I'm a bit of a student of history and what we have now is vastly superior to what existed in the past.

It would be nice if we all got on well together all the time and didnt harm each other. But life is not like that. There are primal factors always at play. Its just what it is. And we have to deal with things realistically.

Often the emotional reaction to a situation is the poorest solution to a situation. Goes against our desire for revenge, pay back, keeping the badness out of our lives, but that's why we learned that an eye for an eye reaction only leads to ongoing vendettas. Its the old 'count to ten' philosophy that's best in seeking a solution. Let the emotion tell you of the problem, but let common sense be used to address it. We dont solve problems by going to war.

Best solution for Jamil is to take him away as much as possible from the area that is a blight on his behaviour, partying. He knows it. But he needs to be kept occupied not thrown aside, if he is to grow up and leave that behaviour behind

 

[Jerry1]

You make good points Jerry and I understand your feelings. But the World is not a kind place. Our society has its flaws but I'm a bit of a student of history and what we have now is vastly superior to what existed in the past.

It would be nice if we all got on well together all the time and didnt harm each other. But life is not like that. There are primal factors always at play. Its just what it is. And we have to deal with things realistically.

Often the emotional reaction to a situation is the poorest solution to a situation. Goes against our desire for revenge, pay back, keeping the badness out of our lives, but that's why we learned that an eye for an eye reaction only leads to ongoing vendettas. Its the old 'count to ten' philosophy that's best in seeking a solution. Let the emotion tell you of the problem, but let common sense be used to address it. We dont solve problems by going to war.

Best solution for Jamil is to take him away as much as possible from the area that is a blight on his behaviour, partying. He knows it. But he needs to be kept occupied not thrown aside, if he is to grow up and leave that behaviour behind

Finally we have a little common ground. Piss him off to Melbourne or Brizzy. None of his local thug mates & hanger ons to lead him astray. Under the tutelage of someone like Bellamy or Bennett he may stand a chance of becoming something other than a pig.