Welcome!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

SignUp Now!

Jack de Belin court case

Shoe1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2010
Messages
12,148
Reaction score
16,040
For the jury I was on it took two days to decide , a few ( on the moral high ground ) wanted to convict straight away BUT if convicted the guy would have faced potentially 7 years in goal so we had to be 100% sure ( beyond reasonable doubt the judge told us ).

I was 50/50 but we argued the case around for the first day then had to go back into court and ask some questions , then came back and within about an hour we decided to acquit him as there was ( in our minds ) reasonable doubt that rape had occurred.

I felt desperately sorry for the girl but there was some doubt that existed.

Reading these reports the case ( only one male ) sounded remarkably similar so it will be most interesting to see the result.

I of course make no opinion as it’s only what I’ve read but one thing is for sure a jury of 6 men and 6 females should be able to work out the true story.
And we only know what is in the newspaper reports. The jury will know more than us, and also have judge’s instructions.

So our opinions on whatever happens are just opinions, we need to trust that the jury got it right based on the info they have.
 

Mark from Brisbane

“ Triggered Boomer”
Premium Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2008
Messages
32,823
Reaction score
43,553
And we only know what is in the newspaper reports. The jury will know more than us, and also have judge’s instructions.

So our opinions on whatever happens are just opinions, we need to trust that the jury got it right based on the info they have.
Exactly , as per my last paragraph!!
 

Lyonstomenzies

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2015
Messages
1,345
Reaction score
2,886
Although “gaol” is still acceptable in Britain, it’s now considered a variant spelling of “jail” on both sides of the Atlantic, according to the Oxford English Dictionary and the four standard British dictionaries we’ve checked.

As Fowler’s Modern English Usage (rev. 3rd ed.) explains, “gaol, gaoler, the traditional spellings in the UK, are now under severe and probably unstoppable pressure from jail, jailer, which are dominant in most other parts of the English-speaking world.”

Both pairs—“gaol, gaoler” and “jail, jailer”—are pronounced the same way, which leads to this question: why do the British have a “gaol” spelling if the word is pronounced “jail”?

The short answer, according to Oxford Dictionaries online, is that the word “gaol” was “originally pronounced with a hard g, as in goat.” Here’s a fuller answer.

“Etymologically, a jail is a ‘little cage,’ ” John Ayto says in his Dictionary of Word Origins.

Ayto explains that the English word is ultimately derived from caveola, a diminutive of cavea, Latin for cage (and the source of the English word “cage”).

Why do we have two spellings? Because Middle English (the language spoken from about 1100 to 1500) adopted two distinct versions of the word from French.

The “gaol” version comes from the Norman French gaiole or gaole, the OED says, while “jail” comes from the Old Parisian French jaiole or jaile.

Early versions of “gaol” (like gayhol and gayhole) first showed up in English in the 1200s, while early versions of “jail” (iaiole and iayll) appeared in the 1300s, according to Oxford citations.

“Until the 17th century,” Ayto writes, “gaol was pronounced with a hard /g/ sound, but then it gradually fell into line with jail.”

The two versions of the word were spelled all sorts of ways in Middle English, when our language had no letter “j”: gayhol, gayhole, gayll, gaylle, gaille, gayole, and so on. The “gaol” and “jail” spellings first showed up in the 1600s.

The OED describes “gaol” as an “archaic spelling” that’s still seen in writing “chiefly due to statutory and official tradition” in Britain. However, the dictionary adds that “this is obsolete in the spoken language, where the surviving word is jail.”
 

Shoe1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2010
Messages
12,148
Reaction score
16,040
Although “gaol” is still acceptable in Britain, it’s now considered a variant spelling of “jail” on both sides of the Atlantic, according to the Oxford English Dictionary and the four standard British dictionaries we’ve checked.

As Fowler’s Modern English Usage (rev. 3rd ed.) explains, “gaol, gaoler, the traditional spellings in the UK, are now under severe and probably unstoppable pressure from jail, jailer, which are dominant in most other parts of the English-speaking world.”

Both pairs—“gaol, gaoler” and “jail, jailer”—are pronounced the same way, which leads to this question: why do the British have a “gaol” spelling if the word is pronounced “jail”?

The short answer, according to Oxford Dictionaries online, is that the word “gaol” was “originally pronounced with a hard g, as in goat.” Here’s a fuller answer.

“Etymologically, a jail is a ‘little cage,’ ” John Ayto says in his Dictionary of Word Origins.

Ayto explains that the English word is ultimately derived from caveola, a diminutive of cavea, Latin for cage (and the source of the English word “cage”).

Why do we have two spellings? Because Middle English (the language spoken from about 1100 to 1500) adopted two distinct versions of the word from French.

The “gaol” version comes from the Norman French gaiole or gaole, the OED says, while “jail” comes from the Old Parisian French jaiole or jaile.

Early versions of “gaol” (like gayhol and gayhole) first showed up in English in the 1200s, while early versions of “jail” (iaiole and iayll) appeared in the 1300s, according to Oxford citations.

“Until the 17th century,” Ayto writes, “gaol was pronounced with a hard /g/ sound, but then it gradually fell into line with jail.”

The two versions of the word were spelled all sorts of ways in Middle English, when our language had no letter “j”: gayhol, gayhole, gayll, gaylle, gaille, gayole, and so on. The “gaol” and “jail” spellings first showed up in the 1600s.

The OED describes “gaol” as an “archaic spelling” that’s still seen in writing “chiefly due to statutory and official tradition” in Britain. However, the dictionary adds that “this is obsolete in the spoken language, where the surviving word is jail.”
I work with old, Middle English and 17th-18th century English a bit, and spelling is pretty inconsistent and phonetic until the age of dictionaries in the early 19th century.
 

Bearfax

Grizzly old fart
Joined
Aug 6, 2012
Messages
6,446
Reaction score
11,034
Although “gaol” is still acceptable in Britain, it’s now considered a variant spelling of “jail” on both sides of the Atlantic, according to the Oxford English Dictionary and the four standard British dictionaries we’ve checked.

As Fowler’s Modern English Usage (rev. 3rd ed.) explains, “gaol, gaoler, the traditional spellings in the UK, are now under severe and probably unstoppable pressure from jail, jailer, which are dominant in most other parts of the English-speaking world.”

Both pairs—“gaol, gaoler” and “jail, jailer”—are pronounced the same way, which leads to this question: why do the British have a “gaol” spelling if the word is pronounced “jail”?

The short answer, according to Oxford Dictionaries online, is that the word “gaol” was “originally pronounced with a hard g, as in goat.” Here’s a fuller answer.

“Etymologically, a jail is a ‘little cage,’ ” John Ayto says in his Dictionary of Word Origins.

Ayto explains that the English word is ultimately derived from caveola, a diminutive of cavea, Latin for cage (and the source of the English word “cage”).

Why do we have two spellings? Because Middle English (the language spoken from about 1100 to 1500) adopted two distinct versions of the word from French.

The “gaol” version comes from the Norman French gaiole or gaole, the OED says, while “jail” comes from the Old Parisian French jaiole or jaile.

Early versions of “gaol” (like gayhol and gayhole) first showed up in English in the 1200s, while early versions of “jail” (iaiole and iayll) appeared in the 1300s, according to Oxford citations.

“Until the 17th century,” Ayto writes, “gaol was pronounced with a hard /g/ sound, but then it gradually fell into line with jail.”

The two versions of the word were spelled all sorts of ways in Middle English, when our language had no letter “j”: gayhol, gayhole, gayll, gaylle, gaille, gayole, and so on. The “gaol” and “jail” spellings first showed up in the 1600s.

The OED describes “gaol” as an “archaic spelling” that’s still seen in writing “chiefly due to statutory and official tradition” in Britain. However, the dictionary adds that “this is obsolete in the spoken language, where the surviving word is jail.”


And of course the Americans tended to spell many of their words in the simpler phonetic form which is becoming more standard eg programme and program, aluminium and aluminum. Most words ending re like theatre become er as in theater. Most words with a double l like travelled, becomes traveled. Words with an ou in them becomes o such as colour and color. Most words like analyse switches to a z such as analyze. So it goes on and on. Analogue becomes analog, paedantic, pedantic, leukaemia, leukemia. Welcome to the Americanized world, or is that Americanised...not so sure any more
 

Shoe1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2010
Messages
12,148
Reaction score
16,040
And of course the Americans tended to spell many of their words in the simpler phonetic form which is becoming more standard eg programme and program, aluminium and aluminum. Most words ending re like theatre become er as in theater. Most words with a double l like travelled, becomes traveled. Words with an ou in them becomes o such as colour and color. Most words like analyse switches to a z such as analyze. So it goes on and on. Analogue becomes analog, paedantic, pedantic, leukaemia, leukemia. Welcome to the Americanized world, or is that Americanised...not so sure any more
It is interesting that you can find many of those “American” spellings (-or instead of -our, z instead of s) in 1700s English. The pommy puritans took this spelling to America and kept it. The English in England changed their spelling a bit toward French in the 1800s with the -our, and we have inherited that in Australia. The differences reflect the earlier settlement of America compared with Australia.
 

47MVEagle

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2018
Messages
1,574
Reaction score
3,530
And of course the Americans tended to spell many of their words in the simpler phonetic form which is becoming more standard eg programme and program, aluminium and aluminum. Most words ending re like theatre become er as in theater. Most words with a double l like travelled, becomes traveled. Words with an ou in them becomes o such as colour and color. Most words like analyse switches to a z such as analyze. So it goes on and on. Analogue becomes analog, paedantic, pedantic, leukaemia, leukemia. Welcome to the Americanized world, or is that Americanised...not so sure any more

I read an interesting book on the development of American English by Bill Bryson years ago.

From what I can recall, the original Pilgrims were basically a few shiploads of contrarians who were determined to do as much as possible differently to their UK counterparts.

Bryson instills a fair bit of humour in his writing so I'm not sure how true this sentiment is, but it certainly explains why they do everything differently to the test of the world as well as using both metric & imperial scales!
 

bob dylan

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Super Coach Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Messages
9,931
Reaction score
11,806
I live in a town with a gaol and work at a Council that corresponds with them regularly, over a 20 year period, I have never once seen the 'jail' used by either party. Only a month ago it was discussed at some detail because some wrote 'jail' on a 'post it' note for someone.

Not saying that makes it right but our former GM had a real handle on the English language and gramma. He would stick for the English version 100%.
 

Bearfax

Grizzly old fart
Joined
Aug 6, 2012
Messages
6,446
Reaction score
11,034
It is interesting that you can find many of those “American” spellings (-or instead of -our, z instead of s) in 1700s English. The pommy puritans took this spelling to America and kept it. The English in England changed their spelling a bit toward French in the 1800s with the -our, and we have inherited that in Australia. The differences reflect the earlier settlement of America compared with Australia.


Yes it was inherited from early settlers but most of them didn't come from the main areas of England but rather poorer districts of south west England, Scotland and Ireland. It was called a rhotic dialect. Most of mainstream English was much more influenced by French. It wasn't a time frame that was different, it was where most of the people came from in England. At the time dialects were far more diverse and its only as people became more literate that written language became stabilised. Before the 1800s the majority of people couldn't read or write and certainly the early US settlers would have had a poor level of literacy which at that time was reserved for the rich and powerful. So a more phonetic means of writing was logical.
 

wedgetail eagle

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2012
Messages
2,534
Reaction score
2,953
I read an interesting book on the development of American English by Bill Bryson years ago.

From what I can recall, the original Pilgrims were basically a few shiploads of contrarians who were determined to do as much as possible differently to their UK counterparts.

Bryson instills a fair bit of humour in his writing so I'm not sure how true this sentiment is, but it certainly explains why they do everything differently to the test of the world as well as using both metric & imperial scales!
Interesting. With the French having backed the Americans in their revolutionary war against the Brits & the anti British sentiment, it’s a wonder America didn’t adopt the French metric system.
 

globaleagle

stay tuned
Staff member
Premium Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2011
Messages
25,144
Reaction score
31,725
Interesting. With the French having backed the Americans in their revolutionary war against the Brits & the anti British sentiment, it’s a wonder America didn’t adopt the French metric system.

Alexander graham Bell (and others) went to congress and argued the case for the metric system but rich cappo bastard industrialists successfully argued that their machines were in feet 'n inches and that it would cost too much to go metric.

Also Thomas Jefferson had the chance to go metric, but wussed out.

Also also....

In 1975, the United States passed the Metric Conversion Act.
The legislation was meant to slowly transition its units of measurement from feet and pounds to meters and kilograms, bringing the US up to speed with the rest of the world.
There was only one issue: the law was completely voluntary. Of course, that meant it pretty much never took off.

er..that'll do.
 

Shoe1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2010
Messages
12,148
Reaction score
16,040
Alexander graham Bell (and others) went to congress and argued the case for the metric system but rich cappo bastard industrialists successfully argued that their machines were in feet 'n inches and that it would cost too much to go metric.

Also Thomas Jefferson had the chance to go metric, but wussed out.

Also also....

In 1975, the United States passed the Metric Conversion Act.
The legislation was meant to slowly transition its units of measurement from feet and pounds to meters and kilograms, bringing the US up to speed with the rest of the world.
There was only one issue: the law was completely voluntary. Of course, that meant it pretty much never took off.

er..that'll do.
I grew up with the metric system but my parents were imperial, so I’m bilingual. Some measurements are more understandable in imperial, for example height. But I understand weight better in kilos.
 

wedgetail eagle

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2012
Messages
2,534
Reaction score
2,953
I grew up with the metric system but my parents were imperial, so I’m bilingual. Some measurements are more understandable in imperial, for example height. But I understand weight better in kilos.
Acres is another Imperial that real estate agents still add to a property write up. A good thing as I’m lost with hectares.
Also, measuring a horse’s height dodged the metric system, a hand is 4”.
 

Latest posts

2020 Ladder

Team P W D L PD Pts
1 Panthers 20 18 1 1 299 37
2 Storm 20 16 0 4 258 32
3 Eels 20 15 0 5 104 30
4 Roosters 20 14 0 6 230 28
5 Raiders 20 14 0 6 128 28
6 Rabbitohs 20 12 0 8 169 24
7 Knights 20 11 1 8 47 23
8 Sharks 20 10 0 10 0 20
9 Titans 20 9 0 11 -117 18
10 Warriors 20 8 0 12 -115 16
11 Tigers 20 7 0 13 -65 14
12 Dragons 20 7 0 13 -74 14
13 Sea Eagles 20 7 0 13 -134 14
14 Cowboys 20 5 0 15 -152 10
15 Bulldogs 20 3 0 17 -222 6
16 Broncos 20 3 0 17 -356 6
Top Bottom