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Jack de Belin court case

yokahontas

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I blame the media.

Humans are going to do what they do.

Why does society hold a dumb footballer to a higher standard than a university educated lawyer, when it comes to issues like group sex or adultery, or the like ?

Because the media tells us to.

Because the guy who’s going to be a lawyer doesn’t get the adulation and special treatment from the time he’s a young teenager that the ‘footy stars’ do. And lawyers don’t go away on team camps where abhorrent sexual practices are encouraged (I mean the kind where, for example, someone agrees to a liaison with one player and next minute half his teammates are joining in; or someone hoping to maybe get a player’s number and become a WAG is used, discarded, and then mocked in group chats and the like).

I’m sure there are plenty of lawyers who engage in all sorts of seedy stuff, but is it an encouraged part of ‘team bonding’ the way it is with athletes? And one that’s instilled from a young age? You can have any girl you want because you won the mock trial for your school last week?
 

mave

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Because the guy who’s going to be a lawyer doesn’t get the adulation and special treatment from the time he’s a young teenager that the ‘footy stars’ do. And lawyers don’t go away on team camps where abhorrent sexual practices are encouraged (I mean the kind where, for example, someone agrees to a liaison with one player and next minute half his teammates are joining in; or someone hoping to maybe get a player’s number and become a WAG is used, discarded, and then mocked in group chats and the like).

I’m sure there are plenty of lawyers who engage in all sorts of seedy stuff, but is it an encouraged part of ‘team bonding’ the way it is with athletes? And one that’s instilled from a young age? You can have any girl you want because you won the mock trial for your school last week?

Yeah, agreed.

Does not go in any way to explain why a dumb footy player should be held to a higher standard than a uni educated lawyer.......other than that's what the media tells us to do.
 

yokahontas

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Yeah, agreed.

Does not go in any way to explain why a dumb footy player should be held to a higher standard than a uni educated lawyer.......other than that's what the media tells us to do.

It’s not that they’re ‘held to a higher standard’, it’s that a) the public profile and b) the problematic culture exists for one group and not the other. There was plenty of media coverage of the disgusting behaviour and attitudes in Sydney Uni residences recently, and high-profile private schools as well - but none of the individuals have the high profile (either publicly or in their own community) that star athletes do. There’s also not the groupie scene that enables them either.

‘Dumb footy player’ is no excuse or defence.
 

Leader of the Flock

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manly al

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I don’t know that it’s ‘adultery’ as such that’s the problem. I’m sure there are plenty of players quietly carrying on behind their partners’ backs that we don’t know about - but the seedy stuff that keeps hitting the news about gangbangs, picking up randoms and filming encounters with them etc - that’s what makes the game look like it has a very ugly social/sexual culture around it.

There’s a few good docos around lately about the toxic sexual culture around high school and college athletes in the US - we have the same issues here, albeit on a smaller scale.

I’ll be honest, I’m a lot less interested in the game than I used to be, and the culture of these guys being treated like gods and given free passes for awful behaviour is part of it. Not the whole reason, but part of it. I wouldn’t want any of my nieces involved with a footy player, and I wouldn’t want any of my nephews to be one.
Understand your sentiments and outlook to the undesirable or darker side of some footy players conduct but seriously would not think that it would be reflective or indicative of the greater majority of modern day footy players . Really just comes down to motivation and intent and individual moral compass , [ and also individual choice with temptation ] Obviously all footy players would not be angels but most would not put themselves in a situation [ or look for one ] such as J D B and regardless of any of his alleged misconduct . Personally in my footy days and an earlier era , though never at an elite level , went on my fair share of end of season trips at the G C [ Goldy ] and other leisure locations and my impression would be that the same opportunities and temptation for questionable behavior were just as prevalent in my era as now . Admittedly since full time professionalism , . elite footy players have a higher public profile and upward mobility, lifestyle wise and maybe a little more inclination for objectionable behavior . Just think however it would be a shame if any generalization that all modern footy players fall short in the respectable and decent living department begins to take hold .
 

Wombat64

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Where’s the vomit emoji when you need it!!

Seriously ( as a male ) I couldn’t think of anything more disgusting.

3rd’s / 4th’s OMG
It's not something that grabs me either ..... each to their own I guess? Talking to young ones today though, they all think they're porn stars and expect what they see on the internet.
 

Shells Eagles

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Yeah, agreed.

Does not go in any way to explain why a dumb footy player should be held to a higher standard than a uni educated lawyer.......other than that's what the media tells us to do.
I am not in anyway influenced by the media. I have my own set of morals which have been developed over 55 years. In my opinion a “grown up” man with a kid on the way doesn’t team up with his mate and have sex with a random young girl. This is my opinion and I wish you would stop saying we are all influenced by the media.
 

yokahontas

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Understand your sentiments and outlook to the undesirable or darker side of some footy players conduct but seriously would not think that it would be reflective or indicative of the greater majority of modern day footy players . Really just comes down to motivation and intent and individual moral compass , [ and also individual choice with temptation ] Obviously all footy players would not be angels but most would not put themselves in a situation [ or look for one ] such as J D B and regardless of any of his alleged misconduct . Personally in my footy days and an earlier era , though never at an elite level , went on my fair share of end of season trips at the G C [ Goldy ] and other leisure locations and my impression would be that the same opportunities and temptation for questionable behavior were just as prevalent in my era as now . Admittedly since full time professionalism , . elite footy players have a higher public profile and upward mobility, lifestyle wise and maybe a little more inclination for objectionable behavior . Just think however it would be a shame if any generalization that all modern footy players fall short in the respectable and decent living department begins to take hold .

I think what’s really worrying is that guys who seem like ‘cleanskins’ are apparently perfectly ok with their mates doing stuff like this - as someone else pointed out earlier in this thread, it’s confronting that JDB freely discussed this situation with Angus Crichton, and it didn’t raise an eyebrow. Don’t doubt there are plenty of players who don’t get involved, but it reminds me of the now-famous Army video - ‘the behaviour you walk past is the behaviour you accept’.

You’re right that the higher profile + more money + more leisure time are all contributing to incidents like this getting more media attention. I know the ‘god status’ stuff went on with local players my own age in the 90s, and my mum has mentioned similar stuff from my dad’s playing days in the 70s (there was a particular local groupie in that era named Lucy who was apparently known as Lucy Lastic due to the propensity for her underpants to fall down/off when around the footy players).

But not only have the players’ profiles changed these days, so have the social norms and expectations of them. None of these guys are going through school or the junior development ranks without getting plenty of information about consent, treating women with respect etc - there’s less excuse for it than there’s ever been. And they know the media and public will string them up for it if they get caught. And yet there’s still this idea that picking up a random for a ‘bun’ (or ‘running a train on her’, as the Yanks call it) is totally acceptable and even funny to chat about with your mates afterwards.
 

StuBoot

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I think what’s really worrying is that guys who seem like ‘cleanskins’ are apparently perfectly ok with their mates doing stuff like this - as someone else pointed out earlier in this thread, it’s confronting that JDB freely discussed this situation with Angus Crichton, and it didn’t raise an eyebrow. Don’t doubt there are plenty of players who don’t get involved, but it reminds me of the now-famous Army video - ‘the behaviour you walk past is the behaviour you accept’.

You’re right that the higher profile + more money + more leisure time are all contributing to incidents like this getting more media attention. I know the ‘god status’ stuff went on with local players my own age in the 90s, and my mum has mentioned similar stuff from my dad’s playing days in the 70s (there was a particular local groupie in that era named Lucy who was apparently known as Lucy Lastic due to the propensity for her underpants to fall down/off when around the footy players).

But not only have the players’ profiles changed these days, so have the social norms and expectations of them. None of these guys are going through school or the junior development ranks without getting plenty of information about consent, treating women with respect etc - there’s less excuse for it than there’s ever been. And they know the media and public will string them up for it if they get caught. And yet there’s still this idea that picking up a random for a ‘bun’ (or ‘running a train on her’, as the Yanks call it) is totally acceptable and even funny to chat about with your mates afterwards.

I don't think there was anything that led me to believe that Angus Crichton was ok with it just because JDB called him.
He may have discussed it with him but it doesn't mean he condoned it.
We don't know what Crichton thought or said about it at the time as it wasn't reported as far as I know.
He might have just been an ear and left it at that thinking next time he calls I won't answer.

Do we think that all the Manly boys out with Walker at the pizza joint condoned how he is alleged to have behaved? Did any of them say anything to him or try to stop him if he was getting out of control? Does that mean they accepted his behaviour?
Maybe next time they go out for dinner he won't be invited.

But I do shake my head at all the stupid stuff that NRL players do - like this case , a high profile NRL player in a town like Wollongong acting up. It's not like he is a first year player, he's had the pre-season seminars plenty of times
 

The Wheel

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I don't think there was anything that led me to believe that Angus Crichton was ok with it just because JDB called him.
He may have discussed it with him but it doesn't mean he condoned it.
We don't know what Crichton thought or said about it at the time as it wasn't reported as far as I know.
He might have just been an ear and left it at that thinking next time he calls I won't answer.

Do we think that all the Manly boys out with Walker at the pizza joint condoned how he is alleged to have behaved? Did any of them say anything to him or try to stop him if he was getting out of control? Does that mean they accepted his behaviour?
Maybe next time they go out for dinner he won't be invited.

But I do shake my head at all the stupid stuff that NRL players do - like this case , a high profile NRL player in a town like Wollongong acting up. It's not like he is a first year player, he's had the pre-season seminars plenty of times
Alcohol, testosterone, good looking women, peer group pressure, no fear or think they are bulletproof bc they are an NRL star tends to lead to many players forgetting the dozens of workshops they have attended around acceptable behavior and community expectations
 

yokahontas

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I don't think there was anything that led me to believe that Angus Crichton was ok with it just because JDB called him.
He may have discussed it with him but it doesn't mean he condoned it.
We don't know what Crichton thought or said about it at the time as it wasn't reported as far as I know.
He might have just been an ear and left it at that thinking next time he calls I won't answer.

Do we think that all the Manly boys out with Walker at the pizza joint condoned how he is alleged to have behaved? Did any of them say anything to him or try to stop him if he was getting out of control? Does that mean they accepted his behaviour?
Maybe next time they go out for dinner he won't be invited.

But I do shake my head at all the stupid stuff that NRL players do - like this case , a high profile NRL player in a town like Wollongong acting up. It's not like he is a first year player, he's had the pre-season seminars plenty of times

Maybe Crichton isn’t ok with it, who knows? But the fact de Belin casualty discussed ‘just your standard bun’ with him suggests he felt pretty comfortable talking about that kind of behaviour with him. Which isn’t something most people would discuss unless they had an idea the other party doesn’t have a problem with it.

And I’d reckon Walker is probably like the dickhead drunk every group seems to have. His mates probably know he’s a liability at worst and an embarrassment at best, but it’s passed off as a bit of a joke and nobody thinks it needs addressing. Or it’s someone else’s issue to address. Again, the behaviour you walk past...

The next de Belin or Hayne could just as easily be a Manly player. The entitlement culture is a problem across the sport (and plenty of others), and it’s partly why people are switching off.
 

manlyfan76

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It's not something that grabs me either ..... each to their own I guess? Talking to young ones today though, they all think they're porn stars and expect what they see on the internet.

I blame the parents...
 

Eagle of London

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I blame the media.

Humans are going to do what they do.

Why does society hold a dumb footballer to a higher standard than a university educated lawyer, when it comes to issues like group sex or adultery, or the like ?

Because the media tells us to.
That is the biggest load of horse crap I've read in the last 20 min and considering the amount of baseless conjecture on these boards thats a good effort.
Try saying this with a stupid voice im envisaging' its the media. The media. Its all the media's fault I tell ya'....
Let me tell you a secret. Its not the media's fault.... and anyone who directly says it is is just another sheep sprouting the same lines.
 

mave

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I am not in anyway influenced by the media. I have my own set of morals which have been developed over 55 years. In my opinion a “grown up” man with a kid on the way doesn’t team up with his mate and have sex with a random young girl. This is my opinion and I wish you would stop saying we are all influenced by the media.

Morally, I agree with you.

My point around the media extends to the reporting of behaviour.

If I recall correctly Brett Stewart was incorrectly reported by media as being drunk.....and we all know the stories printed by Rebecca Wilson and co around that case.

You cannot seriously tell me that people are not influenced by the media...why do the NRL have their ridiculous stand-down policy then ?
 

Shoe1

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I blame the parents...
Eek please don’t blame me for my kids’ behaviour, they are brought up to know how to behave but they have minds of their own. All the good is my influence though
 
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