Ivan Cleary

[Disco]

We won premierships before Hasler and we will win them without him

 

[Jerry1]

Just a few stats for those pushing for Ivan to be our next coach.

Warriors coach-2006 to 2011 games 137
Win 50% .No premierships
Penrith coach- 2012 to current
Games 102
Win 48%. No premierships.

Point being I don't think he is the master coach everyone makes out.9 yrs as coach and there hasn't been one year where his team has absolutely dominated.

Toovs has a better record under much worse conditions. But if Toovs does get pushed I think I'd rather Barrett. Or someone else for that matter.

Yep - Tooves took a premiership team to last place on the ladder. I think Ivan has been doing the reverse. Taking crap teams & making them better.

 

[hozza]

Yep - Tooves took a premiership team to last place on the ladder. I think Ivan has been doing the reverse. Taking crap teams & making them better.

Yeah this years results are there for all to judge for sure. No disagreeing on that.

I disagree about the warriors, I think warriors have been underachievers since there arrival but I don't think that will always be the case and once they get a coach who understands the culture and can tap into there huge potential they will one day be heavyweights. I think Ivan failed there, and he knew it. Hence the move. I mean 6 years!! That's plenty of time to build a team, plenty. If you don't win a premiership in 6 years I think your pretty much done.

And Penrith well time will tell. He's fast running out of time IMO. He's been there since 12, again that's plenty of time to implement changes and achieve success. I do agree he is building a nice side though, but I have no doubt P Gould has his hand in that.

Is he a decent coach- yes
Maybe even good. But something tells me he isn't good enough. That's just my opinion though ( and let's be honest, no one really cares about my opinion. Just ask my girlfriend. Haha)

 

[ManlyMatt]

The one thing about Tooves is there was only one way the team could go.

Needs until the end of next year until you can see if he is capable of building again, half a season is not enough time.

There's a big difference between a slide from where we were and the clubs first spoon. I think there will definitely be a new coach before our next game.

 

[Gib the Pom]

Tough call on Cleary. IF Tooves were to go I'd be happy with Cleary. I can understand why people would have doubts over him. But I think he's been to two clubs and taken them very far compared to where they were when he took over. I understand Manly has different demands than the other clubs do, I get that. I also think those other clubs have lower ceilings than Manly do and he took them as far as they could. If he were given an opportunity at Manly where there was no ceiling and there was a premiership winning culture I would like to see how he does.

Still only young at 44, still learning his trade. Every coach appointment is a gamble, This would be one I'd take.

Apologies if that doesn't make a lot of sense, I mentioned ceilings a lot for some reason, I hope you get my point

 

[Ralphie]

The one thing about Tooves is there was only one way the team could go.

Needs until the end of next year until you can see if he is capable of building again, half a season is not enough time.

Except it's not half a season. As a playing group we collapsed at the beginning of last August. In 6 weeks from now it will be a full year of disastrous results. If we don't win in the next 6 weeks we will have won only 5 games in a full year (4 of those by 3 points or less). It is inconceivable that anyone could seriously say that Toovey is the best coach for us in those circumstances.

 

[Fluffy]

so we didn't finish equal first last year?

 

[Ralphie]

so we didn't finish equal first last year?

You can twist that around if you want but after round 21 we won only 2 games for the remainder of the season, we beat the GC in round 23 by 3 points and we beat Penrth by 1 point in round 25. From round 21 to the end of the season we won 2 games and lost 5 game conceding 170 points and scoring 114 for a negative differential of 56 points.

But yes, we did finish equal first on points. If you are happy with our last 11 months performance then fill your boots. My view is that we have been on the skids for a year now and the coach has been powerless to turn it around.

 

[Fluffy]

You can twist that around if you want but after round 21 we won only 2 games for the remainder of the season, we beat the GC in round 23 by 3 points and we beat Penrth by 1 point in round 25. From round 21 to the end of the season we won 2 games and lost 5 game conceding 170 points and scoring 114 for a negative differential of 56 points.

But yes, we did finish equal first on points. If you are happy with our last 11 months performance then fill your boots. My view is that we have been on the skids for a year now and the coach has been powerless to turn it around.

Your last line is close to the truth the coach is powerless to turn it around. Our team on the sidelines would have done better than the team left on the park. If you believe this is tooveys plan then so be it however I do not think his plan was to have half a team missing for most games.

If you can show me a month in your selceted period where we werent smashed by injuries and had a chance to form cobinations and set plays etc as coached then I may change my mind but the facts are we havn't had any consistency.

The panthers lat year performed way above expectations with a bad injury toll (about 2/3 as bad as ours) but outside of that team I can't think of any other team who has even come close to the 8 when dessimated with injuries. Why did the panthers do ok? That is the main question, they did have a lot of good juniors coming through who are now consistently in the top grade this year all under Cleary however they are doing worse this year. Why is that?

 

[Ralphie]

Your last line is close to the truth the coach is powerless to turn it around. Our team on the sidelines would have done better than the team left on the park. If you believe this is tooveys plan then so be it however I do not think his plan was to have half a team missing for most games.

If you can show me a month in your selceted period where we werent smashed by injuries and had a chance to form cobinations and set plays etc as coached then I may change my mind but the facts are we havn't had any consistency.

The panthers lat year performed way above expectations with a bad injury toll (about 2/3 as bad as ours) but outside of that team I can't think of any other team who has even come close to the 8 when dessimated with injuries. Why did the panthers do ok? That is the main question, they did have a lot of good juniors coming through who are now consistently in the top grade this year all under Cleary however they are doing worse this year. Why is that?

Because of Cleary, that's why I would love to have him as a coach.

You are big on excuses for Tooves, which I get, but can you tell me at what point you would acknowledge we have a problem then.

 

[lurker]

Just a few stats for those pushing for Ivan to be our next coach.

Warriors coach-2006 to 2011 games 137
Win 50% .No premierships
Penrith coach- 2012 to current
Games 102
Win 48%. No premierships.

Point being I don't think he is the master coach everyone makes out.9 yrs as coach and there hasn't been one year where his team has absolutely dominated.

Toovs has a better record under much worse conditions. But if Toovs does get pushed I think I'd rather Barrett. Or someone else for that matter.

The warriors were up to $1mil under the cap and he took them to a grand final in 2011. If I take my maroon glasses off we were prob fortunate to win that game

 

[Fluffy]

Because of Cleary, that's why I would love to have him as a coach.

You are big on excuses for Tooves, which I get, but can you tell me at what point you would acknowledge we have a problem then.

When we don't consider 5 players missing and another one off mid game a great line up.

If we can have most of our players on the park for a month straight and things don't improve I will be asking questions but so far this year as we have improved on injuries so has the team.

Prior to Friday we were 2-2 losing by 1 and 4 points having the second best defence in the comp through that period depsite missing half a dozen players. If Tooves is so useless then how did that happen?

It seems to me Tooves gets blamed for losses but no credit for winning

 

[Ralphie]

When we don't consider 5 players missing and another one off mid game a great line up.

If we can have most of our players on the park for a month straight and things don't improve I will be asking questions but so far this year as we have improved on injuries so has the team.

Prior to Friday we were 2-2 losing by 1 and 4 points having the second best defence in the comp through that period depsite missing half a dozen players. If Tooves is so useless then how did that happen?

It seems to me Tooves gets blamed for losses but no credit for winning

I didn't say Tooves was useless at any time. I don't like some of his selections of players like Hasson and I think his bench rotation management is poor, but I have never said he was useless.

I will say that it appears that he has lost the playing group and that is always fatal. The papers were screaming all week before the donkeys game that Tooves job was on the line if we lost that game. DCE had just re-signed and we had a near full strength team (Certainly the backs were). So what did the players dish up, complete unmotivated rubbish. Once a coach loses the dressing room there is no way back.

 

[Fluffy]

I didn't say Tooves was useless at any time. I don't like some of his selections of players like Hasson and I think his bench rotation management is poor, but I have never said he was useless.

I will say that it appears that he has lost the playing group and that is always fatal. The papers were screaming all week before the donkeys game that Tooves job was on the line if we lost that game. DCE had just re-signed and we had a near full strength team (Certainly the backs were). So what did the players dish up, complete unmotivated rubbish. Once a coach loses the dressing room there is no way back.

I can't say that was complete unmotivated rubbish. Forget the final scoreline, the last 3 tries were a direct link to Lyon off injured and we blew out on too much defence.

Early on we were ambushed by a hyped up top of the comp Broncos on the back of the queensland press post DCE, that was obvious. They were on fire and took 35 minutes to make a mistake by then they had 2/3 of possesion and we made only 3 errors in the first half so hardly horrible.

This "unmotivated rubbish" team was one pass short of fighting back shortly after half time to be down by just 4 points. If the coach had lost the team then why is it his half time speech/plans etc got them back into a game they had lost in the first 30 minutes? Doesn't make sense.

The 4 games prior we were 2-2 and damn close to being 4 from 4.

I have seen no evidence that the coach has lost the team, just a few cancerous player who have a big Z in their ear encouraging them. That problem will not be around next year.

 

[Terry Zarsoff]

The Big Z* will still be there.

*The Pied Piper of Wakehurst Parkway

 

[Ralphie]

I can't say that was complete unmotivated rubbish. Forget the final scoreline, the last 3 tries were a direct link to Lyon off injured and we blew out on too much defence.

Early on we were ambushed by a hyped up top of the comp Broncos on the back of the queensland press post DCE, that was obvious. They were on fire and took 35 minutes to make a mistake by then they had 2/3 of possesion and we made only 3 errors in the first half so hardly horrible.

This "unmotivated rubbish" team was one pass short of fighting back shortly after half time to be down by just 4 points. If the coach had lost the team then why is it his half time speech/plans etc got them back into a game they had lost in the first 30 minutes? Doesn't make sense.

The 4 games prior we were 2-2 and damn close to being 4 from 4.

I have seen no evidence that the coach has lost the team, just a few cancerous player who have a big Z in their ear encouraging them. That problem will not be around next year.

I take all of your points and I completely understand your point of view. If you were happy with how we went against Brisbane as a team apparently all behind the coach and running through brick walls for him then all power to you.

I for one wasn't.