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Ivan Cleary

Discussion in 'Rugby League Forum' started by hozza, Jun 10, 2015.

  1. hozza

    hozza Well-Known Member

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    Just a few stats for those pushing for Ivan to be our next coach.

    Warriors coach-2006 to 2011 games 137
    Win 50% .No premierships
    Penrith coach- 2012 to current
    Games 102
    Win 48%. No premierships.

    Point being I don't think he is the master coach everyone makes out.9 yrs as coach and there hasn't been one year where his team has absolutely dominated.

    Toovs has a better record under much worse conditions. But if Toovs does get pushed I think I'd rather Barrett. Or someone else for that matter.
     
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    • Loobs

      Loobs I am not really Scott Penn Premium Member

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      I think the current gen of players doesn't really have that respect for the old guys like players used to. Like an older coach could come in and read players the riot act and hold them accountable. A much bigger part of it now is man management and keeping the guys heads in it, and we've seen that you don't really get that by being a firebrand type. You probably get more mileage out of young guys by going the mate route...
       
    • Pittwater Legend

      Pittwater Legend Well-Known Member

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      I've had a black line through Cleary's name for a while now. He is not an improvement on Tooves.

      If Fulton thinks that Barrett has what it takes then I'm happy to go with that decision.
       
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      • The Indian

        The Indian Well-Known Member

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        Cleary isn't going anywhere anyway - but for my ten cents worth reckon he has achieved plenty with ordinary rosters and we would jump at him given the chance. That coaching effort to take that Panthers team to with a few points of a grand final was outstanding - also took the Warriors to a GF.

        That aside - Trent Barrett has been closely associated with the panthers juniors and is extremely highly regarded by them. Panthers juniors are an absolute goldmine if used properly. I suspect that's what Cleary is a bit wary of with Barrett leaving, worrying he's going to do a Brad Arthur and start poaching from his old nest after he moves on. Lets hope so.
         
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        • hozza

          hozza Well-Known Member

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          6 years at warriors is plenty of time to achieve great success in my opinion. And he failed to do that.

          Yes he has done ok at panthers maybe even good. But still not the answer. Got to question why his sides constantly have huge injury tolls as well.
           
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          • Terry Zarsoff

            Terry Zarsoff Well-Known Member

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            Let's not (within reason). Let's concentrate on bringing our own top juniors through, rather than pissing them off and seeing them head off elsewhere.
             
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            • lovefooty

              lovefooty Well-Known Member

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              There seems to be a lot of new posters on here who want us all to be talking about who will replace tooves. Its all about trying to make us think past 2v. Its part of the campaign that is a foot to condition us and to make the blow softer when they move on him.
              Governments do it when they have hard budgets or reforms to implement . They get us talking about change and it makes us less impacted when change comes.
              For me its tooves and no one while he has a contract in place. Dont fall for it people.
              Lets back our man to fix what is needed in the team.
              SAVE OUR TOOVES
               
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              • The Wheel

                The Wheel Well-Known Member

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                Bring Des home!
                 
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                • HoldenV8

                  HoldenV8 Well-Known Member

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                  The days of coaches like Bozo are fading fast.

                  I won't say they are already gone because Clint Eastwood's stunt double is still coaching.
                   
                • Pittwater Legend

                  Pittwater Legend Well-Known Member

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                  I would love for Tooves to see out his contract and stay on if things were to improve. He isn't being given a fair go and I do think that people are losing their heads over what is a natural end to a very successful era. The forwards that gifted us with so much of our current success have all moved on because of age so we now need a new set of forwards to set us up for another run of premiership contention.

                  We're not blessed with the corporate backing and wealth of resources that clubs like Brisbane have so when we're successful, it's because we damn well earned it. People were writing off our squad even before the 2011 premiership so the fact that we've extended our number of consecutive finals series to 10 seasons is both amazing and grossly unfair to the rest of the league. A run of success like that for a modest club is also unsustainable, enter 2015.
                   
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                  • Kiwi Eagle

                    Kiwi Eagle Moderator Staff Member 2017 Tipping Competitor

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                    He is easily the best coach the warriors have had, he actually got them to a point of playing consistently week to week

                    In terms of his record there, 1 year was derailed by the previous management being dodgy with the cap, and they started the comp on -4 points and came in 9th. Another year he couldn't do much about was the year Sonny Fai drowned in January, not many teams come through those things with great results

                    I think he is a class coach. He built the Warriors up into a consistent team, and then rebuilt the Panthers into a decent team as well, both with squads lacking the superstars that you need to win a comp
                     
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                    • robbiea

                      robbiea Well-Known Member 2017 Tipping Competitor

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                      Keep tooves ,f#*& the disruptive players off..
                       
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                      • Fluffy

                        Fluffy Well-Known Member

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                        The one thing about Tooves is there was only one way the team could go.

                        Needs until the end of next year until you can see if he is capable of building again, half a season is not enough time.
                         
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                        • Eagleheart

                          Eagleheart Well-Known Member 2017 Tipping Competitor

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                          Well said @lovefooty......!!!!

                          If there are agendas from governments or corporations etc, made up 'stories' are given as exclusive interviews, or leaked from mysterious sources etc etc and the media then pick it up and televise or print it. These 'stories' are perpetuated and before long some people start believing them when in fact they were never based on much truth if any. Other names for this is called propaganda, bull**** and down right garbage. It happens far too often and therefore I suggest all have an open mind to the government, media, corporations etc. Not everything is what it seems. ;)

                          Go the Might Manly Sea Eagles coached by the awesome Tooves.
                           
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                          • delz

                            delz Active Member

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                            I cant believe the number of people here who still believe Toovey is the best coach for us moving forward. In the world of ruthless professional sport like Rugby League the only true indicator of success is current success not what has been achieved in previous years. ! I do agree Toovey did a great job after Hasler left but unfortunately things have changed and the writing has been on the wall since late last year and we definitely need a fresh approach, new ideas , new game plans, new training methods etc.
                            Its terribly naive for people on this site to think that just because Toovey is a club legend that he should be kept as coach ! What a load of BS !
                            In team sports all over the world the coach is held responsible and unfortunately I agree that the buck stops there. Yes we have had a dysfuctional board, yes we have changed Management but all on field issues is the responsibility of the coach full stop ! There is no room for sentiment in professional sport unless you want to remain a perennial loser ! Manly needs change and as supporters we should embrace it and be excited about it.
                            As I said Toovey was a great player but unfortunately he has not moved with the times and I must agree that at times his comments on NRL360 confuse me and really shows how out of touch he is with modern game. Unfortunately this has now transformed into our on field performances.
                            I have been a supporter of Manly for over 45 years and have been proud of our history and success ! I really want us to continue to be a dominate force unlike many on this site who have their heads in the sand regarding the coaching issue and who are basically happy to make no changes and continue to embrace mediocrity.
                            I strongly believe a change of coach that brings changes in philosophy and also can keep up with the challenges the modern game now brings in regards to the speed and tactics of the 21st century game of Rugby League is what we need in order to continue the wonderful dynasty that is and always will be Manly !!!
                             
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                            • The Indian

                              The Indian Well-Known Member

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                              You need the Rosetta stone and a team of translators to understand his point sometimes on NRL 360 - its awkward viewing. At first I thought he just avoided all the questions but sometimes I'm not so sure.
                               
                            • hozza

                              hozza Well-Known Member

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                              I agree he has built decent and consistent teams, but I don't want a decent team. I want a comp winning team!! Panthers have proved they are ok with winning a comp every 15 years or so. Here at Manly only The best has ever been accepted ( not counting the northern eagle days). And warriors haven't been able to win one yet, and take into account they have a whole country for juniors!

                              I want a team that is in contention year in year out, and Cleary in 9 years has proved he isn't up to our lofty standards!!
                               
                            • Kiwi Eagle

                              Kiwi Eagle Moderator Staff Member 2017 Tipping Competitor

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                              Cleary has never had a group of Lyon, Stewart, DCE type players in his squads to seriously challenge for a premiership, that is the big difference.
                              He now has 1 developing in Moylan and a few other guys may be heading towards that level out at Penrith so no doubt they will be up there in the next few years
                               
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                              • eagleron

                                eagleron Well-Known Member

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                                After what Hasler did to this club I wouldn't have him back at any price, that bastard has burned his bridges as far as I'm concerned.
                                 
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                                • Alby

                                  Alby Active Member

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                                  What about another premiership? Not saying he'll be able to - but if he could, would you...?
                                   

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