Is Tom's best position fullback?

[MuzztheEagle]

Is he a fullback?
Right now is he the fullback a FG team needs?

No...but where else do you play someone with his great running skills and desire to get his hands on the ball all the time that is not mature enough to be a 5/8, decision-making and ball-security wise?

X-Wing!!! This appeared to be Parra's plan on the weekend for Hayne (until he was injured). Probably because he is too fat and slow for fullback and not smart enough to be a 5/8th. Still, I think the idea of having a player focus almost solely on attack and free roam during attacking phases has a lot of merit.

 

[The Who]

Point taken. But in 2008 Brett surpassed Slater as the top full back and was even on NRL promotion posters at the beginning of 2009. It was the court case and subsequent injuries that knocked Brett off the pedastal, not Slater's superior football. We also forget Brett is almost two years younger than Slater and that's why Slater had the early jump on him.

We never saw the best of Stewart, but I have no doubt he would have been better than Slater had the court case and injury not intervened. He was well on the way also of beating Irvines try scoring record. He was on the rise when those problems started and was No 1 full back even despite being much younger at the beginning of 2009. He had only just turned 24 when the World came down on him. Imagine what he could have been in later years. As it was he was outstanding even running virtually on one leg.

Not denying Stewart's greatness, but the bigger question was he Manly's best fullback?
Those of us who had the pleasure of watching Wombat play will be split on the merits of both players. They each had their strengths; Wombat was extremely strong and would bust tackles rather than step around players and beat them with speed (not that he was slow). He was a strong defender, very safe and a good goal kicker.
I do think Tom Turbo has the attacking skillset to match both Stewart and Eddie, and in time I hope he develops the other attributes so that on his retirement we can place him in the pantheon of Manly fullbacks.

 

[Fluffy]

And I bet him and his manager wont want centres money when the Roosters come knocking.

I am betting he will if it is Roosters centres money

 

[nightster]

Re the Slater and Stewart debate.

I am a Chook, but I reckon if Stewart didn't have all that bullsh*t that happened to him in 2009 he may have become the greatest fullback of all time. He was ahead of Slater in 2008 and possibly the best fullback season I have ever seen in my 40 plus years of watching rugby league.

g'day Brett

 

[nightster]

welcome aboard Twink

 

[Bearfax]

Not denying Stewart's greatness, but the bigger question was he Manly's best fullback?
Those of us who had the pleasure of watching Wombat play will be split on the merits of both players. They each had their strengths; Wombat was extremely strong and would bust tackles rather than step around players and beat them with speed (not that he was slow). He was a strong defender, very safe and a good goal kicker.
I do think Tom Turbo has the attacking skillset to match both Stewart and Eddie, and in time I hope he develops the other attributes so that on his retirement we can place him in the pantheon of Manly fullbacks.

I watched Eadie from the beginning of his career at Manly. He was a great full back. Totally different from Brett, he was like a forward with pace and power. If Brett had continued playing without the injuries and court case I think he would have been better. But based on what I have seen they are pretty close. I would have Eadie at full back in my top Manly side and Brett on the wing.. They both deserve to be in Manly's best ever team.

 

[nightster]

I watched Eadie from the beginning of his career at Manly. He was a great full back. Totally different from Brett, he was like a forward with pace and power. If Brett had continued playing without the injuries and court case I think he would have been better. But based on what I have seen they are pretty close. I would have Eadie at full back in my top Manly side and Brett on the wing.. They both deserve to be in Manly's best ever team.

Manly's top 30

 

[Bearfax]

Manly's top 30

My best ever Manly team

Eadie
B. Stewart
Fulton
Lyon
Irvine
Lyons
Toovey
O'Neill
Krillich
Bull
Randall
Menzies
Reilly

res
Kennedy
Hasler
Watmough
Mossop

 

[Mr Manly 007]

Not forgetting
Michael O”Connor was a special player .
Russell Gartner at his best was a great player.
Kevin Ward awesome in ‘87.
3 pommies in ‘76 : Stephens : Phil Lowe and Steve Norton .

 

[40 years an eagle]

Not forgetting
Michael O”Connor was a special player .
Russell Gartner at his best was a great player.
Kevin Ward awesome in ‘87.
3 pommies in ‘76 : Stephens : Phil Lowe and Steve Norton .

and Freddy Jones, Norm Pounder, Ian Roberts, Derek Moritz, Ray Brannigan.

 

[Bearfax]

Peter Peters?

 

[Volley]

No doubting his ability however, it is not consistent or frequent enough. Due to the fact that some else would of, the club paid him an inflated figure to retain him. I compare this to the achievements of a Brett Stewart, and feel that he is in a fortunate position. I can see the merit and thinking of a fellow Sea Eagle on here in moving him to a centre position, with Dylan Walker to fullback. The latter is more seasoned and would certainly have little difficulty I think in adjusting to the position. Naturally just my thoughts as bluntly, Trbojevic is not up to standard at present in that key position.

People expect too much. He’s a kid. How’s he going to learn the ropes by playing in the centres?

Dylan Walker at fullback is laughable. Did you even watch him when he was at 5/8?

Not up to standard? Which fullbacks are up to “standard” in the NRL if TT isn’t?

 

[manly al]

My best ever Manly team

Eadie
B. Stewart
Fulton
Lyon
Irvine
Lyons
Toovey
O'Neill
Krillich
Bull
Randall
Menzies
Reilly

res
Kennedy
Hasler
Watmough
Mossop

Always difficult to nominate one "s preferred best Manly Team over the era "s but i would tend to select the Manly wing suggestions for instance out of guys like Mooney , Shearer , O" Conner and Boustead . The late but great Ken Irvine came to Manly when he was in the twilight of his career and was starting to slow down quite noticeably and also as brilliant as Snake could be at full back , would not rate him better as wingers then the others mentioned also . Would still rate Alan Thompson as the best 5 / 8 but certainly Cliffy on the bench and i wonder how good the international 5 / 8 Wally O ' Connell was in his prime with the early Manly sides . Maybe Crusher Cleal over Choc as well . Bit before my time watching them play for Manly but i would say that QLD internationals Ken Day and Mick Veivers would have been contenders in their time in Manly colours also and certainly Ian Roberts and even Nick Kosef .

 

[manly al]

Tom just mainly needs some decent ball and the side going forward to show his best attributes at full back . Some more desperation and alertness at the back and in defence would not go astray also and of course until and in particular Tom . D C E and Walker can be at their best , the side will continue to struggle . Maybe Matt Wright in the short term could be the only viable and practical 5 / 8 choice available if Croker can not find another level very soon and to help Tom "s game .

 

[Bearfax]

Always difficult to nominate one "s preferred best Manly Team over the era "s but i would tend to select the Manly wing suggestions for instance out of guys like Mooney , Shearer , O" Conner and Boustead . The late but great Ken Irvine came to Manly when he was in the twilight of his career and was starting to slow down quite noticeably and also as brilliant as Snake could be at full back , would not rate him better as wingers then the others mentioned also . Would still rate Alan Thompson as the best 5 / 8 but certainly Cliffy on the bench and i wonder how good the international 5 / 8 Wally O ' Connell was in his prime with the early Manly sides . Maybe Crusher Cleal over Choc as well . Bit before my time watching them play for Manly but i would say that QLD internationals Ken Day and Mick Veivers would have been contenders in their time in Manly colours also and certainly Ian Roberts and even Nick Kosef .

Interesting thoughts Al. A couple of reasons I picked the players I did

Brett Stewart on the wing. Brett was a speedster and probably the second best player at finding the try line after Irvine. In fact in Irvine's career, Ken averaged 0.9 tries per game. Stewart averaged 0.7, but prior to 2009 when all the trouble started he was averaging 0.82 tries per game. Compare that with other players you mentioned. O'Connor 0.46, Mooney 0.5, Boustead 0.39, Shearer 0.4. People rave about Slater but his average is only 0.59. A winger needs to find the try line. Add to that Stewart's defence and other skills and I think he would have been the second best wing man in the game after Irvine, had he had played there.

Crucher over Watmough. Crusher certainly knew how to shatter a defence line. I just thought Watmough had a better all round game including better defence. Day and Veivers I recall well. Good players of International standard. Worth a thought as was Roberts. Kosef unfortunately never reached his potential because of injury I felt

I have to admit to being a Cliff Lyons fan, and consider him the second best player I've seen play for Manly. But Alan Thompson was also outstanding and they both played a similar number of tests and were in winning grand finals. I guess for me what tips it is Lyons twice won the Dally M award and once the Clive Churchill Award. He also assisted Menzies to become the great try socring freak he became. As for Wally O'Connell, he only played 2 seasons (34 games) with Manly. If you consider him you cant then knock out Irvine who was with Manly for three seasons and 60 games. Wally was apparenty brilliant. I never had the chance to see him. He would have to be pretty special in my mind to beat Cliffy though.

But in the end its all about personal perceptions isnt it? I can certainly see why you identified the players you did. Manly have been blessed with great players in its history.

 

[Volley]

Yes, he is not at present up to the standard of his salary. Given his ability, like it or not, these factors are judged. Mathew Dufty, Roger Tuivasa-Scheck, Billy Slater and Dylan Edwards are consistent and up to standard. The only way to determine if Walker can play 1, is to put him there.

So you think there are only 4 fullbacks in the game who are up to standard? Hard task master.

Edwards is pretty solid, there are things TT can do that Edwards can only dream of doing though. Dufty’s passing game needs a lot of work. He’s a livewire no doubt, but nowhere near the finished product. Slater can still make plenty of mistakes.

I’d add Ponga to your list. He is very special.

TT needs to work on things no doubt, but potential wise he needs to stay at fullback to learn. We are nowhere near Premiership contenders, so we can afford to let him learn on the job imo.

 

[manly al]

Interesting thoughts Al. A couple of reasons I picked the players I did

Brett Stewart on the wing. Brett was a speedster and probably the second best player at finding the try line after Irvine. In fact in Irvine's career, Ken averaged 0.9 tries per game. Stewart averaged 0.7, but prior to 2009 when all the trouble started he was averaging 0.82 tries per game. Compare that with other players you mentioned. O'Connor 0.46, Mooney 0.5, Boustead 0.39, Shearer 0.4. People rave about Slater but his average is only 0.59. A winger needs to find the try line. Add to that Stewart's defence and other skills and I think he would have been the second best wing man in the game after Irvine, had he had played there.

Crucher over Watmough. Crusher certainly knew how to shatter a defence line. I just thought Watmough had a better all round game including better defence. Day and Veivers I recall well. Good players of International standard. Worth a thought as was Roberts. Kosef unfortunately never reached his potential because of injury I felt

I have to admit to being a Cliff Lyons fan, and consider him the second best player I've seen play for Manly. But Alan Thompson was also outstanding and they both played a similar number of tests and were in winning grand finals. I guess for me what tips it is Lyons twice won the Dally M award and once the Clive Churchill Award. He also assisted Menzies to become the great try socring freak he became. As for Wally O'Connell, he only played 2 seasons (34 games) with Manly. If you consider him you cant then knock out Irvine who was with Manly for three seasons and 60 games. Wally was apparenty brilliant. I never had the chance to see him. He would have to be pretty special in my mind to beat Cliffy though.

But in the end its all about personal perceptions isnt it? I can certainly see why you identified the players you did. Manly have been blessed with great players in its history.

Very informative post Bearfax and i found it interesting and i guess that these type of topics are based a lot on personal perceptions but your well researched stats are certainly always interesting . How did you rate the back rower Bill Bradstreak and the centre pairing of Frank Stanton and Alex Tennant who all seemed to be quite prominent in their time with Manly ?

 

[Bearfax]

Very informative post Bearfax and i found it interesting and i guess that these type of topics are based a lot on personal perceptions but your well researched stats are certainly always interesting . How did you rate the back rower Bill Bradstreak and the centre pairing of Frank Stanton and Alex Tennant who all seemed to be quite prominent in their time with Manly ?

Billy Bradstreet was unfortunately playing for a Manly side still to win a premiership. He was rep status and in fact beat Coote initially to the lock position in his first and only test. Coote then got the position off him and Billy never got a chance again. But he was up there and I remember him as a very mobile lanky forward, top defence and tough.

Frank Stanton was Manly's star player before Fulton came along. He was also unlucky not to play test football. Was fast and nippy playing half and centre. Alec Tennant was one of those hard running type of centres like a mini Crusher Cleal. He was also unlucky not to play tests. Good defender, tough as teak, could swerve nicelty but his power running was his forte. He and Gallagher, who joined him in the centres in 1966 from Easts, scored between them 19 tries in 22 matches that year. With Stanton, and my memory is a little vague, he and Tennant formed an interesting combination of strength and clever guile. They had a top side in the mid to late 60s but ended up bridesmaid several times before cracking it in '72. Another star was 'Pogo' Morgan, a tall fast Lowe like player, not as fast as Lowe but tougher.

 

[double hoops]

More and more I wonder if five eight may be Toms best spot for the team

 

[Bearfax]

More and more I wonder if five eight may be Toms best spot for the team

I think Tom would be outstanding anywhere in the backline, except maybe half. Sometimes he remind me of a young Lockyer, but quicker, and we know how well Lockyer was at 5/8. But I also wonder about Kelly at 5/8. He has those types of skills.