Is a good loss a thing?

[Rosko]

I think I just watched a good loss.
I am really proud of how the boys responded to the early first half blitz.
Full strength we win.
Last time I remember a good loss was when Melbourne beat us in 2008 at Brookvale. We all know how that season panned out. I'm not saying we will win this year, but I think we should appreciate how well we responded in this game.

This was absolutely nothing like the 2008 Melbourne loss. That is almost heresy tbh.

 

[Rosko]

Maybe watching on TV and the commentators narratives have fooled a few people. We were soundly beaten and if Keary stopped trying to torch our edges, we’d have lost by 20. Three tries from intercepts made it look like we were in the fight. We weren’t. They just stopped respecting us and did some dumb things. Our attack never looked like troubling them during a period where we had all the possession. They ran harder and tackled harder all night and we struggled to get any momentum in the ruck.

I am not bagging the team because they did fight and as mentioned, that’s noble, but noble doesn’t win games and I’m just giving my opinion that the Roosters looked a side that’s way beyond us when the whips start cracking.

💯

 

[bob dylan]

Maybe watching on TV and the commentators narratives have fooled a few people. We were soundly beaten and if Keary stopped trying to torch our edges, we’d have lost by 20. Three tries from intercepts made it look like we were in the fight. We weren’t. They just stopped respecting us and did some dumb things. Our attack never looked like troubling them during a period where we had all the possession. They ran harder and tackled harder all night and we struggled to get any momentum in the ruck.

I am not bagging the team because they did fight and as mentioned, that’s noble, but noble doesn’t win games and I’m just giving my opinion that the Roosters looked a side that’s way beyond us when the whips start cracking.

No discount for two lucky tries from kicks that "pin balled" all over the place and another from a clear forward pass?

I didnt see what you saw. I saw one team with the footy gods shining down on them while ignoring the other for the first 30 minutes. Sure it swung and then we got lucky with some intercepts.

 

[Jay Eagle]

He was pretty good tonight. He will not the same space with Storm or Patnthers as he gets vs Knights or Tigers, silly to think its even possible.

The top sides will always be able to negate his attack to some degree, just like they do vs Teddy or Latrell or Cleary. Its what makes them the top sides.

We should have shut down Teddy early in tonights game.

Teddy needs to be targeted and hit hard in defence just like the 2008-2011 side did to Slater.. go back and watch the Manly v Storm games in that period and Slater hardly ran into the defence against Manly but was up for it against other sides.. Matai, Lyon, and Choc gave him nightmares

 

[LeonardCohen]

No discount for two lucky tries from kicks that "pin balled" all over the place and another from a clear forward pass?

I didnt see what you saw. I saw one team with the footy gods shining down on them while ignoring the other for the first 30 minutes. Sure it swung and then we got lucky with some intercepts.

With all due respect (we see what we see), I watched the game from a fantastic vantage point on halfway at Allianz and the Chooks ‘made their own luck’ by absolutely belting us when we had the ball and torching our middles to make many line breaks. That a kick might ricochet for a try is a byproduct of their field position and in the case of say Dom Young’s kick, it’s off the back of finding space down the edge and taking an option that’s not available if they are rucking it out of their own end. It was so obvious how bad we were losing, I thought they’d score 50. They played at a completely different tempo to us.

Now I do agree that the bounce of the ball seemed to fall in their lap but it fell for the team that was well on top in all the fundamental areas of the game. It was 22-0. That’s a lot of bad luck…or is it?

I don’t want this side to walk away thinking they’re competing because they scored 18 points off Roosters mistakes. We got smashed on Saturday night and then the Chooks put the cue in the rack.

 

[Pete W]

2 wins from 10 games away from the comfort of Brookie (not including Vegas).

When 15,000+ fans are screaming support from the sidelines, this team play like champs. Take that away from them, and they crumble instantaneously. This is softness personified. Every single time, there seems to be a good excuse though.

With this Manly team, the challenge is simple: learn to play all games as if mummy and daddy are on the sidelines shouting your name. Play all games as if you are at Brookvale. Until then, we will never be successful.

 

[bob dylan]

With all due respect (we see what we see), I watched the game from a fantastic vantage point on halfway at Allianz and the Chooks ‘made their own luck’ by absolutely belting us when we had the ball and torching our middles to make many line breaks. That a kick might ricochet for a try is a byproduct of their field position and in the case of say Dom Young’s kick, it’s off the back of finding space down the edge and taking an option that’s not available if they are rucking it out of their own end. It was so obvious how bad we were losing, I thought they’d score 50. They played at a completely different tempo to us.

Now I do agree that the bounce of the ball seemed to fall in their lap but it fell for the team that was well on top in all the fundamental areas of the game. It was 22-0. That’s a lot of bad luck…or is it?

I don’t want this side to walk away thinking they’re competing because they scored 18 points off Roosters mistakes. We got smashed on Saturday night and then the Chooks put the cue in the rack.

Yeah. not disagreeing with you for one second.

I thought it was a great performance and another ounce of luck we walk away with an all time great win, a win for the ages.

Mind you if the Chooks scored next at 22-0 it could have ended at 60.

They are nothing special and I'd be confident we can beat them next time.

Our starting props just don't do it for us, simply not good enough at times. Imagine havingJWH out and still having Collins, Leniu, May and Whyte. 5 props better than any of ours or most sides.

 

[Bomb Voyage]

What are you rabble getting hyped about - we were beaten and beaten soundly, with 3 intercepts to flatter us in the score line once the roosters had clocked off. I’m in disbelief reading this thread.

 

[mave]

Now I do agree that the bounce of the ball seemed to fall in their lap but it fell for the team that was well on top in all the fundamental areas of the game. It was 22-0. That’s a lot of bad luck…or is it?

Funny how often this happens.

Almost makes you wonder why we don't try it ourselves more often!

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

With all due respect (we see what we see), I watched the game from a fantastic vantage point on halfway at Allianz and the Chooks ‘made their own luck’ by absolutely belting us when we had the ball and torching our middles to make many line breaks. That a kick might ricochet for a try is a byproduct of their field position and in the case of say Dom Young’s kick, it’s off the back of finding space down the edge and taking an option that’s not available if they are rucking it out of their own end. It was so obvious how bad we were losing, I thought they’d score 50. They played at a completely different tempo to us.

Now I do agree that the bounce of the ball seemed to fall in their lap but it fell for the team that was well on top in all the fundamental areas of the game. It was 22-0. That’s a lot of bad luck…or is it?

I don’t want this side to walk away thinking they’re competing because they scored 18 points off Roosters mistakes. We got smashed on Saturday night and then the Chooks put the cue in the rack.

I'm often impressed with your analyses but don't fully agree with this one. Yes Chooks ambushed and belted Manly bigtime and I too thought we were heading for a 50 point obliteration.

But I don't agree they simply put the cue in the rack. Manly started pushing back and especially in the second half Chooks had to dig very deep to defend their line. To their credit they did.

And they were far ahead and in no danger of losing...but ...they felt they needed a killer blow, and under fatigue or duress from Manly's assaults they fluffed it, 3 times, which in the end did put them in danger, albeit for a few minutes.

I agree the bounce of the ball favouring Chooks was a by-product of their strong play but the same can be said for our intercepts. A player often throws those after they've been put under pressure or fatigue, and manly did put them under duress, which is why they didn't have the energy to finish us off. They would have loved to score more than 6 points in the second half but weren't able to.

I do agree Manly was soundly thrashed on the night (by 4 points, lol) but I don't discount the significance of Manly's fightback either. If we play them again our players will know what to expect, although whether they can do anything about it is another matter of course.

Feels a bit like the Penrith away game, which was 6 tries to 5 but the difference felt bigger.

I do think intercept tries should still be worth 4 points though, good enough for Panthers to win a recent grand final with one!
🙂

 

[Ron E. Gibbs]

Teddy needs to be targeted and hit hard in defence just like the 2008-2011 side did to Slater..

Mate, I would have been happy enough if we simply tackled him, but in those first 15 minutes we barely laid a hand on him or anyone else. The frontline defence was absolutely appalling, and I'm hoping that will be the big takeaway or "work-on" for the players and coaches. Yes, the grit and heart that followed was great to see, but those fundamental errors killed us, and can't be allowed to happen again.

 

[manly al]

2 wins from 10 games away from the comfort of Brookie (not including Vegas).

When 15,000+ fans are screaming support from the sidelines, this team play like champs. Take that away from them, and they crumble instantaneously. This is softness personified. Every single time, there seems to be a good excuse though.

With this Manly team, the challenge is simple: learn to play all games as if mummy and daddy are on the sidelines shouting your name. Play all games as if you are at Brookvale. Until then, we will never be successful.

Sure that was a factor [ playing in a less then familiar environment and sort of half expecting it ] but no second chances usually for a poor start in these type of games so will have to make some smart adjustments team collective wise in future similar circumstances .
Defence coming up short at various stages again really has to be addressed particularly against the better rated sides , got close to the Panthers away some weeks ago also as another case example and some more consistent defence could have jagged a win for Manly all things normal
One benefit for having quick outside backs [ including Koula] is the ability also to chase down opposition breaks let alone the advantage of just being able to match up one on one better .
Not too sure that Lodge would offer much more then what is currently on offer , probably more then a less then fit Alioai but really need him at his best for maximum prop value .
First priority however naturally is just to try and somehow win all remaining games or enough to secure a finals position

 

[bob dylan]

I too am always impressed with @LeonardCohen analysis.

A great forum contributor imo.

 

[LeonardCohen]

I'm often impressed with your analyses but don't fully agree with this one. Yes Chooks ambushed and belted Manly bigtime and I too thought we were heading for a 50 point obliteration.

But I don't agree they simply put the cue in the rack. Manly started pushing back and especially in the second half Chooks had to dig very deep to defend their line. To their credit they did.

And they were far ahead and in no danger of losing...but ...they felt they needed a killer blow, and under fatigue or duress from Manly's assaults they fluffed it, 3 times, which in the end did put them in danger, albeit for a few minutes.

I agree the bounce of the ball favouring Chooks was a by-product of their strong play but the same can be said for our intercepts. A player often throws those after they've been put under pressure or fatigue, and manly did put them under duress, which is why they didn't have the energy to finish us off. They would have loved to score more than 6 points in the second half but weren't able to.

I do agree Manly was soundly thrashed on the night (by 4 points, lol) but I don't discount the significance of Manly's fightback either. If we play them again our players will know what to expect, although whether they can do anything about it is another matter of course.

Feels a bit like the Penrith away game, which was 6 tries to 5 but the difference felt bigger.

I do think intercept tries should still be worth 4 points though, good enough for Panthers to win a recent grand final with one!
🙂

I can see how ‘Cue in the rack’ might not tell the whole story. I agree, there was an element of Manly digging in, which is the ‘noble’ part of the loss I referred to in another post.

I was disappointed with the attack and some of the options we took when the Chooks were defending inside their red zone. We looked a bit clueless, with the exception of a nice short pass to Bullemor. I think it highlighted the shortcomings of our attacking approach. It’s rare in big games against quality opposition to finesse a way around the defence. We showed no threat at the line and just keep sending props up for ‘one out’ runs that are essentially just sellers. Then we’d run out of space on our shifts.

Now, I do concede that Ola, Hoppa, Koula, Garrick and Saab could all make a difference to our attack inside 20. So there’s that.

I’m not interesting in bagging us, I think we are a side that fights hard but I do worry that we have some serious deficiencies that compromise our ability to challenge the really good sides. We have speed on the extreme edges but geez our overall tempo is fairly pedestrian.

 

[Terry Zarsoff]

I think in all the opprobrium following the loss, these factors are being ignored or downplayed:

a. Manly only lost by four points. Doesn’t matter how you score them (i.e. 3 x intercepts), as long as you do score them. That still leave a for and against (F&A) of +93 points. Much better than a potential +75, or worse;

b. Manly was without its best strike forward;

c. OK, maybe it was a mistake to pick Ben in the centres, but often he seems to play better out wide than as a second rower;

d. Manly lost two speedy threequarters to concussion injuries. That will negatively impact on any team;

e. Not a huge Aloiai fan, but he did play well last week and his injury on Saturday night came at a critical moment; and

f. We still have a clear break over the eighth placed team and the teams immediately behind the Dolphins on F&A.

We will still have at least a one point break (on the ladder) after the next round, with the potential for it to be three points. The Dolphins are playing the Roosters in Perth. Meanwhile Canberra take on the Bulldogs at Belmore. The Dragons take on the Storm in Melbourne. You would have to favour the Roosters, Bulldogs and Storm in those respective games.

 

[maxta]

Regardless of the score, I think Roosters were clearly the better side on the night.
I do question the start of that game, as there were several decisive calls that were ALL in City's favour....but here's the thing.
If we want to be a serious contender, there needs to be more resistance than the blowout 22 - 0 Roosters lead, as example Penrith would have imo, taken the calls against us and used it to fuel the fire and start dominating the collissions and kept the score to a far smaller margin, where as Manly looked a little like deers in the headlights early and the game was lost at that point.
Still a gritty effort in relation to no white flags and I truely feel in the past couple of seasons if we gave up that big lead, City would have run away by 50 +.
Much good to take from it and it's a game I feel the players will have learned a bit about themselves and what went wrong and maybe even a bit of belief in the fact as the game went on, Manly started winning many of the contests, which again did not happen in that first 20 minutes....but that first 20 minutes just may have added some extra steel to the team for the games ahead and not be a bad thing by seasons end, as I believe you gain more from your mistakes and losses, as long as you have the right attitude and keep heads up.

 

[47MVEagle]

I don’t see where the Roosters put the cue back in the rack either, we pressed them hard in the second half & had them worried for quite a bit of it.

I mean, you could easily say they threw everything at us in the first half so that & our possession & field position in the second half (& the byproduct of them having to tackle us more) ran them out of gas.

The Titans started off fast against us the week before but we weathered the storm & fought back to win.

We just have to be ready from the kick off instead of allowing opposition to rack up early leads.

 

[mickqld]

2 wins from 10 games away from the comfort of Brookie (not including Vegas).

When 15,000+ fans are screaming support from the sidelines, this team play like champs. Take that away from them, and they crumble instantaneously. This is softness personified. Every single time, there seems to be a good excuse though.

With this Manly team, the challenge is simple: learn to play all games as if mummy and daddy are on the sidelines shouting your name. Play all games as if you are at Brookvale. Until then, we will never be successful.

Yep agreed and the 2 away wins were very lucky scrape ins against a sh*t performing Titans and Cows. Not a good record to be honest and I think it really shows the average quality in all but 3 or 4 teams. The NRL wants to expend more but there seriously is not enough 1st grade quality to fill more than 12 really competative teams.

 

[The Who]

I've just had a chance to watch a replay of the match for the first time, and I'm buoyed by what I saw. Our early problems were due to Al playing on injured when he should have been replaced immediately. His poor defence disrupted the team, and Easts were hot, even though two of their tries were bounce-of-the=ball lucky. Then losing Sandwich and Saab meant our backline was totally on tilt.
Yet, with great tenacity, we hung in there and fought back.
The ref erred when not allowing a try to Clayton; the ball had touched a defender's fingertips and the play should have continued. Ironically, had he allowed play to continue the Bunder would have ruled it a try.
We dominated most of the second half with a patched-up team. Easts were barely hanging on.
I think that narrow loss will actually give our blokes confidence. We have plenty of firepower to return and I'm confident we'll go on a winning run to 5th or 4th spot.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Yep agreed and the 2 away wins were very lucky scrape ins against a sh*t performing Titans and Cows. Not a good record to be honest and I think it really shows the average quality in all but 3 or 4 teams. The NRL wants to expend more but there seriously is not enough 1st grade quality to fill more than 12 really competative teams.

Depends how you define '1st grade quality'. To me it means a player who is a regular 1st grader.

As for Manly, we are not top tier but are getting closer to that. Maybe not improving as fast as the Bulldogs, but this only highlights the fact that it's all about recruiting (or developing) better players.

Manly has plenty of good players but we need more, simple as that!