Halves

[ACT Sea Eagle]

Have a got at you? Why for being accurate and thoughtful? Cherry-Evan's is a disgrace. It is shameful to compare him to our great number 7s such as Toovey, Hasler, Gibbs....well said.

 

[qldeagle]

Funny most on here wanted Apo's head on a platters after Round 2

Not me, I reckon Api is running rings around DCE. He's so unpredictable with the ball, has a huge motor and can kick. He just needs to work a bit on his service passing from dummy half. You don't have to pay a fortune for a great player. As you can tell I'm a big Api fan.

 

[Turbo]

Have a got at you? Why for being accurate and thoughtful? Cherry-Evan's is a disgrace. It is shameful to compare him to our great number 7s such as Toovey, Hasler, Gibbs....well said.

Thanks mate good to see some people are noticing that he isn't up to first grade atm

 

[brad]

As long as dce is at manly 2023 , he will wear the 7. Api will more then likely play 6 next season with walker to 3. I think skivvy has more chance seeing 17 out then killer . Killer said he wants to play on if the body holds up and there is enough cap room , but i think he will get talked into retirement and a job awaits. Lyon seems like the type of bloke that will do whats best for the side . Maybe he can come off the bench next season time will tell.

 

[Technical Coach]

What fans are appreciating but let's not get too carried away just yet is for the first time in a very lonnnng time we have speed, sharpness and footwork in a half and liking the different elements that can bring to a game.

Playing it simple, show and go, footwork and taking it to the line in a more direct i want to break the line way is refreshing to see.

DCE has this element to his game also(not as sharp with footwork though) but at times over complicates his game, second guesses himself and starts to drift and crab sideways when either the forwards are not doing their job or he is out of form lacking confidence.

DCE when he first entered first grade kept it more simple and showed that big show and go more often.

For the most part of his career DCE has been stuck on the right and playing like a right side 5/8 off the back of second man plays or Foran holding up the middle, or benefiting from the wide crisp structured plays that start from Dummy half---even running behind decoys off a play on the short side so his game needs to adjust again to a more central direct style mixed with ball-playing.

If Api keeps improving and Manly keep winning it might force TB to keep DCE on the right with his usual role(i doubt this will happen but it might have to)---my guess is Brett will get injured again and either Tom takes over as the simple logical choice or they try Walker at FB(or wing), it might become a big selection headache for TB if Manly keep winning.

 

[Ryan]

What fans are appreciating but let's not get too carried away just yet is for the first time in a very lonnnng time we have speed, sharpness and footwork in a half and liking the different elements that can bring to a game.

Playing it simple, show and go, footwork and taking it to the line in a more direct i want to break the line way is refreshing to see.

DCE has this element to his game also(not as sharp with footwork though) but at times over complicates his game, second guesses himself and starts to drift and crab sideways when either the forwards are not doing their job or he is out of form lacking confidence.

DCE when he first entered first grade kept it more simple and showed that big show and go more often.

For the most part of his career DCE has been stuck on the right and playing like a right side 5/8 off the back of second man plays or Foran holding up the middle, or benefiting from the wide crisp structured plays that start from Dummy half---even running behind decoys off a play on the short side so his game needs to adjust again to a more central direct style mixed with ball-playing.

I agree mate. DCE used to run holes, and was much more direct. His first action these days, is sidewards, looking for other ball runners. Barrett wants him to play more like Thurston, but if you watch Thurston, he's is constantly in motion, and much, much quicker in his decision making.

I sometimes think our offensive line appears a lot flatter than it used to under Des. If your forwards then aren't winning the arm wrestle, then that really limits DCE's time to make decisions.

Api is a lot more explosive from a standing start, which offers the illusion of more time. I also really feel Api's defense has it over DCE.

BUT, you can't knock Cherries short and long kicking game. That's what he has over Api. That, and experience in the role.

Then again, you'd have to think, if we signed Api as our 1/2 on 300k or something, take away his current salary, and DCE's 1.3 million, we'd probably have another 1.1 million odd to strengthen the team elsewhere, which would mean a much more balanced team.

 

[Technical Coach]

I agree mate. DCE used to run holes, and was much more direct. His first action these days, is sidewards, looking for other ball runners. Barrett wants him to play more like Thurston, but if you watch Thurston, he's is constantly in motion, and much, much quicker in his decision making.

I sometimes think our offensive line appears a lot flatter than it used to under Des. If your forwards then aren't winning the arm wrestle, then that really limits DCE's time to make decisions.

Api is a lot more explosive from a standing start, which offers the illusion of more time. I also really feel Api's defense has it over DCE.

BUT, you can't knock Cherries short and long kicking game. That's what he has over Api. That, and experience in the role.

Then again, you'd have to think, if we signed Api as our 1/2 on 300k or something, take away his current salary, and DCE's 1.3 million, we'd probably have another 1.1 million odd to strengthen the team elsewhere, which would mean a much more balanced team.

DCE has a more all round passing game and can pass both ways with skill, along with a more varied kicking game.

 

[mbe]

Isn't it wonderful, though that we are in this position where we have this choice of players.

 

[HK_Eagle]

I agree, Mbe, it is a much better problem then a lot of the other problems we've had to deal with over recent seasons.

Personally, I don't see Api replacing DCE. I expect DCE will lift and start to produce closer to what is expected for the club's investment. His potential, experience and general skill set is too great to not come good. It would be a collosal fall from the top if he was to succumb to the current funk and I just don't see it.

Having said that, it's great Api is performing there as it should only spur DCE to lift. I concur, DCE can and will be given some leeway based on the general lack of forward platform, and his own history and potential. However, he has much to prove yet. I am not convinced this is simply the forward's fault. I look forward to his response when he returns to the paddock in a few weeks time (assuming our forward platform doesn't mysteriously disappear again).

 

[Loaded dog]

I have this recurring dream ... ONE MILLION DOLLARS PER YEAR!
Earn it!

 

[brad]

I agree mate. DCE used to run holes, and was much more direct. His first action these days, is sidewards, looking for other ball runners. Barrett wants him to play more like Thurston, but if you watch Thurston, he's is constantly in motion, and much, much quicker in his decision making.

I sometimes think our offensive line appears a lot flatter than it used to under Des. If your forwards then aren't winning the arm wrestle, then that really limits DCE's time to make decisions.

Api is a lot more explosive from a standing start, which offers the illusion of more time. I also really feel Api's defense has it over DCE.

BUT, you can't knock Cherries short and long kicking game. That's what he has over Api. That, and experience in the role.

Then again, you'd have to think, if we signed Api as our 1/2 on 300k or something, take away his current salary, and DCE's 1.3 million, we'd probably have another 1.1 million odd to strengthen the team elsewhere, which would mean a much more balanced team.

Alot of what ifs though ryan isnt there . Im not disagreeing with you at all but we have in front of us is what it is and things like combinations will work with time . Dce is a gun and will get better , what he played 3, 4 games and didnt actually have shockers maybe over played his hand abit . When he gets back fit i can see things going from strength to strength.

 

[Ryan]

Alot of what ifs though ryan isnt there . Im not disagreeing with you at all but we have in front of us is what it is and things like combinations will work with time . Dce is a gun and will get better , what he played 3, 4 games and didnt actually have shockers maybe over played his hand abit . When he gets back fit i can see things going from strength to strength.

Hope so mate, because behind the very same forward pack, Api is playing well, where DCE has been struggling, so I guess we can't use the forwards as excuses for DCE any longer.

 

[brad]

Hope so mate, because behind the very same forward pack, Api is playing well, where DCE has been struggling, so I guess we can't use the forwards as excuses for DCE any longer.

I think he still isn't fully recovered from shoulder surgery, i dont know time will tell. We will still be playing finals so all good . Cheers mate.

 

[qldeagle]

Hope so mate, because behind the very same forward pack, Api is playing well, where DCE has been struggling, so I guess we can't use the forwards as excuses for DCE any longer.

Spot on champ

 

[Technical Coach]

I think he still isn't fully recovered from shoulder surgery, i dont know time will tell. We will still be playing finals so all good . Cheers mate.

Every time Foran under performed he was never given the luxury of the "has an injury excuse" over the last few years, when DCE doesn't shine or underperform there is always an injury excuse----his performances have been inconsistent for a while now.(he has been playing injured especially last year, it was real gutsy but no-one says the same about Foran)

Has the skillset just needs to take his game to the next, mature, composed professional, well thought out level, straighten up simplify and push his forwards to play hard and direct.

He needs to start barking orders and taking control but still doesn't have the confidence to be too forward with the senior players around---Cooper Cronk has been barking orders and running the show at Melb in the halves since almost day one with a more simplified direct skillset.

I will never knock his effort though he always puts in 100%--- at times he probably puts too much pressure on himself----needs to once again play for enjoyment, play to the areas that made him love the game.

 

[Garts]

Hope so mate, because behind the very same forward pack, Api is playing well, where DCE has been struggling, so I guess we can't use the forwards as excuses for DCE any longer.

Only thing is we have been going forward in the most recent games, look at the stats, the opposition is in brackets. This is total run metres. So whilst it is behind the same pack they have been performing much better in recent weeks. Makes it easier to look better.

Rd 1: 1287m (1470m)
Rd 2: 1178m (1321m)
Rd 3: 1335m (1355m)
Rd 4: 1321m (1448m)
Rd 5: 1746m (1321m)
Rd 6: 1326m (1189m)

 

[BOZO]

Hope so mate, because behind the very same forward pack, Api is playing well, where DCE has been struggling, so I guess we can't use the forwards as excuses for DCE any longer.

The same forward pack was not playing as good as they have been playing lately to put things more in perspective IMO

 

[Technical Coach]

The same forward pack was not playing as good as they have been playing lately to put things more in perspective IMO

There could be many reasons why, not just the improvement in the forwards.

Have not seen much footage or studied it hard enough but i'm sure distribution out of dummy half is improving as the team gels better, Api could be marshalling his forwards around even with simple under plays along with his speed, and obviously more drive, straightness and intent in go forward and defence.

Let's not forget the first 20mins of the previous game nothing had changed, against the Warriors everything went our way and the Warriors were terrible.

There is go forward numbers then there are numbers generated by breaks that will make general go forward numbers look better---along with a better kicking game in some instances.

Everything counts in the go forward stakes it is just how much you can replicate those numbers with confident consistency that matters, if Manly make no breaks/half breaks and get into the grind are they still effective in the go forward stakes or do we once again lose field position and struggle.

Manly created go forward in the past due to our lateral ball movement to compensate for a weak front row, there are many ways to generate go forward we just have to make sure we are consistent in doing so.

 

[HK_Eagle]

TC just expressed some of what I was thinking (and probably much more thoroughly and succinctly). The improved go forward may indeed be for reasons beyond just simply being better in themselves. How much confidence and enthusiasm is generated from the performance of the halves (Api more specifically)? Enthusiasm can indeed be a contagious and valuable asset to team performance. And then there is the momentum on the back of those darting penetrating runs from Api.

Without doubt there has been an improved momentum with our forwards, but there is a whole team dynamic that needs to be factored into that. How much of a factor is open to debate and undoubtedly changes from game to game and even within games. I just hope DCE can work his way back in and maintain the forward momentum.

 

[HK_Eagle]

And we also need to keep in mind, Api may not reproduce the high standard he has in the last 2 games. It is a make-shift arrangement after all, and the team is still finding its feet as a unit. I wouldn't be surprised to see some further steps back as we work hard on moving forward.