Half way - report card

[BOZO]

The collective unit comes back to the individuals and those in charge of setting the standards.

Rafferty feathered friend
Your rules Rule
Everything else fades into insignificance

Rafferty Rules Quote
The collective unit comes back to the individuals and those in charge of setting the standards.
End quote

And it is those Great standards set by Great Manly people that have risen the Mighty Sea eagles above all to become the Greatest club of all

Lower our Legendary clubs Great standards and we stand for nothing Great

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

I think some of the failure ratings may not be taking sufficient account of what the side has had to contend with.

Firstly, a horrendous end to last year. We lost our last 7 and there were plenty wondering if we'd win any of our first 7 this year! We did, in fact have produced several very good performances.

2nd, the loss of Foran has been highly significant. He finished a close 2nd in our MVP last year and in such a key position. At various times Johns Weekes and even Schu have failed to measure up as a replacement. At last there are signs Schu could come good and make a huge difference in the second half of the season.

3rd issue is adjusting to the absence of Walker. We haven't got a lock (maybe Jake is back there, but we don't even know when he'll return) and we don't have an attacking threat off the bench.

Taking all that into account I think we've made fair progress!

 

[Terry Zarsoff]

Depressing stuff.

 

[Pete W]

There’s still this notion of ‘we’ve shown we can do (insert example), etc’ but I don’t buy that. Every side has won games this year and every supporter base sees potential during those victories. It’s been said before that the Tigers beat Penrith but that doesn’t make them contenders.

We’re not going to go through an entire season and lose every game so of course there will be a good showing here and there, but it’s a mirage; one that every team is capable of producing on occasions. Rugby league is played across a season, not a single game. Until this side turns up week in week out, I’m not getting excited by ‘potential’.

Fkn exactly!
Zero progress made. Seibold has some supporters believe that we were a team and club accustomed to losing 7 in a row, so therefore anything slightly better than this is progress, and success that should be attributed to him. Ffs

 

[Harmless27]

Half way report card - good question/thread.

Coaching team:
They haven't improved the team..... they've tweaked some stuff, they've brought a different voice - but they haven't fundamentally changed too much in this team. At best, they get a C (pass) but certainly not an F. I give the kudos for how they've dealt with the difficult situation that is Schuster.... that could easily turn into a car crash - but it hasn't so far.

On field:
Jeckyl and Hyde. We played one of the best games in 5+ years (against the Storm) and we've had some shockers too. Clearly a work in progress.... and a team that would be LOST without our best players (DCE, Jurbo and Turbo). Some good signs from some of our youth.... but some weaknesses too. Again - i would go with a C

Off field:
No stabbings? No domestic violence situations? No mass-protests? Say what you like about the schemozzle that was 2022 - we have been cleaner and tidier off the pitch and in the front office this year. Mestrov for me is going about the job well - and it's nice to not have AS MUCH bickering and off field concerns. Some clear intentions and steps on the local junior front too which is nice to see. Tooves back in the fold is a plus... B+

All in all, a work in progress for me. For those claiming we only ever employ 'out of work' coaches - try to keep in mind that our club has been a mess off the field for years. You can't attract quality players and coaches when the place is run like a kindergarten. It simply IS NOT POSSIBLE to deliver on field success over a sustained period when the front office is a joke. We can build from here - so long as we remain patient, and stay the course.

All up B- for me

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

The team is struggling at the half way point , so it’s a C-minus for me.

Unlike the Des lovers on here ( who can’t help themselves and constantly refer to him as being the messiah ) I’m not sure what we are seeing has a great deal to do with the coaching side of things.

I think some of the recruitment decisions in recent years have been very poor , Josh A hasn’t really lived up to the hype , Tuilagi the same , why we kept Boyle , why we let Davey go , there are many from the last few years that are bewildering.

But to me it’s player attitude that stands out , and many on our team seem to be there largely for the pay check and not much more.

I’m not sure how long it will take but the current coaching / recruitment team need to have a real clean-out and rebuild.

I doubt they’ll keep John’s ( and shouldn’t ) but Arthur might be a handy keep as a backup half.

And our youngsters are really yet to step up and really show their wares , Josh S, Weekes , Tippy Toes , even Koula haven’t shone yet ( not saying they won’t but that’s a large part of the team underperforming ).

Some are really trying hard , it’s DCE’s best year for a while , Croker isn’t a superstar but works very hard , Jurbo is Jurbo , Turbo is slowly coming good , Saabie has done well in his comeback.

Some have really stepped up, Paseka & Bully , outstanding.

Some for whatever reason aren’t quite there as they have been , Garrick is one of those.

Easy to blame the coaches , but there’s no I in TEAM, and we are lacking as a team and that’s everyone’s fault.

I hope to see a better half of the season coming , would be good to see that end of year score move to maybe a B if possible.

 

[LeonardCohen]

Ah yes, the famous 'turning up' problem.
The technical meaning of this remains unclear, though I always assume it just means the team suffered a big loss. And because our team/players are in reality really good, the only possible explanation for the thrashing is... didn't turn up!

I don’t mean turn up each week in the ‘get the mental preparation right and put in effort’ sense - I meant figuratively, i.e. ‘win consistently before getting away with the potential shown in the occasional victory.’

I’ve said on many occasions that the pack and our dummy half are not going to win us games on a consistent basis. I think we’ll need some personnel changes before we become a contender. I’ll happily be proven wrong though!

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

I don’t mean turn up each week in the ‘get the mental preparation right and put in effort’ sense - I meant figuratively, i.e. ‘win consistently before getting away with the potential shown in the occasional victory.’

Fair point. Manly needs to become a team that regularly wins 3 in a row, with winning the 'normal' result. And I agree we'll need personnel changes to be a real contender. Would be great if Samuela and Gordie quickly excel (because I can't see Manly making any signings of the Orford/Kite/Lyon magnitude).

 

[The Who]

I can't see us being serious contenders for as long as we have the same ownership and recruitment structure in place.
How is it that Easts have already recruited two of the best players in the NRL, Spencer Leniu and Dom Young, for next season when they already have the best roster in the league? Easts have virtually no juniors yet are still under the Cap?
The answer is simple: their owners, administrators and recruitment officers are smart enough to get away with rorting the system; whether that be finding ways to pay players more than the Cap auditors see, or bribing the Cap auditors to look the other way.
Souths have cottoned on and are manipulating the system as well, but at least they have a continual batch of good juniors . . . until Easts get to them.
Brisbane and Penrith have a never ending supply of juniors, plus leagues Club funding, to ensure they will always be contenders.
Melbourne have rich owners and an uncanny knack of identifying cheap talent.
Sadly, when I analyse each club, I feel that Manly has the least structure, juniors, money, recruitment intelligence etc to be winners.
Unless we adopt similar tactics to that of Easts I fear we are cooked.
Please explain to me why I am wrong.

 

[Will on the hill]

One of the brightest students in the class but struggles to focus. Easily distracted and lacks attention to detail. C-

 

[LeonardCohen]

But to me it’s player attitude that stands out , and many on our team seem to be there largely for the pay check and not much more.

Agree. We just don't have the enough competitors. I'm sure they all like winning, but this squad is pretty tame in terms of genuine desire and desperation. We've pretty much got Jake T and Garrick that look excited when things are going well and upset when they're not. Even DCE, who I love, can look apathetic about the result at times.

The senior playing group of King, Lyon, Watmough, B Stewart, G Stewart, Matai, Foran and co. used to play like their lives depended on it.

 

[Ryan]

We've won 5 of our last 19 games (average of 25 odd scored against us in that span). This season has shown me that a change in coaching may not have been as necessary as I thought.

Once AGAIN (and it's a year on year thing), we are decimated by injury / suspension. I don't know what the answer to that is, but it's a relevant excuse.

We've had nominal player turnover, and the players we've brought in, well - hmmmm, let's HOPE Fulton has the same affect at The Tigers as he has had with us these past few years, put it that way.

As a team, we are a very different shape to the top teams (they are lean, mobile, fast and uptempo). We seem to be a slow, larger / thicker build type team. At times we look downright lethargic and unfit.

I still see the same terrible entitled attitude problem with the majority of the team. Some standouts:

Koula - completely disappointing this season I had massive expectations. I think this Union thing is messing with his head. He's not switched on.

Turbo - people will hate this, but on my opinion he lifted for Origin selection, not our club. He played at 50% before that. Selfish player.

Schuster - clear as day has so much bloody potential. If he keeps working, kid could be anything - much like Koula. It's all in the head.

DCE - Doing us all proud this season.

Croker - was disappointed up.until last game. Last game he was immense as captain.

Paseka - Absolute machine this season. Stepped up a few notches , that's for sure.

Jake - should NOT have returned mid injury to attempt to win an origin jersey. He's made it worse now, and that's good for no-one. Can't call him selfish though, he's everything to this team (more than Tom imo).

Keppie - loving the added aggression. Our team needs that.

Anyways, mixed bag. There IS improvement, but in my selfish way and view not enough to satisfy me. We'll finish 10th / 11th I hope. I'm not liking the Dragons / Tigers / Dogs improvement. My hope is we steer WAY clear.of the wooden spoon, but we'll be close. Our roster is absolute crap mostly, and needs am entire restructure / overhaul..

5 wins in 19 games. FMD. That's un-Manly like.

 

[lsz]

To be honest considering the structure of our cap I am not sure much could be done to change the team in a fundamental fashion

If we think the coaching team is the way forward then they need to be given time.

The issue for me is the same as it has been for the past couple of years. When we are on we can match it with every team in the comp (Storm, the bunnies game, raiders) but there is a lack of "toughness" to the team that the previous strong era had

It is not fair to compare but........how many times were the 07 - 11 (maybe even to 13) teams out of games?

 

[The Who]

5 wins in 19 games. FMD. That's un-Manly like.

un-Manly like of teams in the past. But we've been on a downward trajectory for the past decade unfortunately.
Having followed the club since the early 1960s I'm worried that we've seen the best of success and the club is no longer structured to be competitive against the rich clubs. We don't have a benevolent owner, we don't have a successful Leagues club, we don't have many juniors, we don't have recruiters throughout the RL-playing world securing raw talent . .
I can't identify any of the other 16 NRL clubs that don't have at least two of these necessary attributes.
I fear our glory days will never return.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

It is not fair to compare but........how many times were the 07 - 11 (maybe even to 13) teams out of games?

You're right about comparing, including because the opposition is never constant. But there's also a tendency to look back with rose coloured glasses at times.

2007 and 08 were totally fantastic years, but even so we suffered a few notable losses such as 14-36/ 8-34 / 4-26 / 12-34 /32-40 among others

2009 and 2010 we still had Killer and most of the champion era, yet some of the worst losses included: 12-34 / 12-26 / 12-26 / 8-22 / 18-48 / 22-36 / 12-40 / 6-22 / 14-28 / 22-40 / 14-32 / 10-32 / 14-30 / 0-28 ...

Another premiership win in 2011 (which was not widely predicted before that season began) buried most of those painful memories but it wasn't all plain sailing or only close losses even back in those halcyon days.

 

[mickqld]

2nd half of the season. No Turbo for potentially 5 games due to Origin. No Jake for another month. I can see at best 3 more wins. It might be enough to avoid the spoon.

 

[Rafferty]

At the bottom of this post is the corrected ladder with all sides credited with their 3 byes.
Working with 28 as the cut off for the 8, Manly need 6 wins to finish on 29 points.
Additionally, 4th to 8th all only need 4 wins to hit 28, if they all win 5 or more (which is less than a 50% win rate) the eight gets out to 30 points, that would require us to get 7 from 12, its also not impossible for the 8 to get out to 32 points this year, meaning we would need 8 from 12.

Barring a miracle it’s pretty obvious we are long odds to make the 8, not saying it can’t happen but if anyone wants to go through our draw and nail down the 7 or possibly 8 wins it will take for us to finish in the 8, I can’t find them.

We have 5 home games, 7 away and 2 byes remaining, as follows,

Rd 14 Bye (Points already credited)
Rd 15 Fins @ Home
Rd16 Slime @ Combank
Rd 17 Storm @ AAMI
Rd 18 Chooks @ Home
Rd 19 Bye (Points already credited)
Rd 20 Cows @ Home
Rd 21 Sharks @ Pointsbet
Rd 22 Goons @ The Gong ( we have a 10% win ratio there)
Rd 23 Chooks @ SCG
Rd 24 Riff @ Home
Rd 25 Warriors @ NZ
Rd 26 Dogs @ Accor
Rd 27 Tigpie‘s @ Home

Below is the Corrected ladder at the completion of Rd 14, with all sides given their 3 byes and the current differential on the right.

Broncos 26 - 89
Vermin 24 - 105
Raiders 22- 49
Panthers 20 - 139
Sharks 20 - 88
Storm 20 - 24
Fins 20 - 15
Warriors 20 - -10

Slime 18 - 52
Cows 18. - -65
Chooks 18 - -66
Manly 17 - -18
Knights 17 - -26
Titans 16 - -31
Dogs 16 - -93
Tigs 12 - -43
Goons 12 - -59

 

[Budgie]

You're right about comparing, including because the opposition is never constant. But there's also a tendency to look back with rose coloured glasses at times.

2007 and 08 were totally fantastic years, but even so we suffered a few notable losses such as 14-36/ 8-34 / 4-26 / 12-34 /32-40 among others

2009 and 2010 we still had Killer and most of the champion era, yet some of the worst losses included: 12-34 / 12-26 / 12-26 / 8-22 / 18-48 / 22-36 / 12-40 / 6-22 / 14-28 / 22-40 / 14-32 / 10-32 / 14-30 / 0-28 ...

Another premiership win in 2011 (which was not widely predicted before that season began) buried most of those painful memories but it wasn't all plain sailing or only close losses even back in those halcyon days.

72 73 76 78 87 96 08 11

Crickets.

What changed?

Penn.

 

[Budgie]

I think the years of being uncompetitive have finally gotten to me.

Optimism about the team is hard to find. Most weeks I expect a loss.

It's not fun.

So report card?

A solid F

 

[Eagle 1]

2nd half of the season. No Turbo for potentially 5 games due to Origin. No Jake for another month. I can see at best 3 more wins. It might be enough to avoid the spoon.

We really are in a bind, everything evolves around Turbo. And for Schuster to do his thing, he needs Tommy to run those lines and decoys. Think we'll get a preview of things to come this Friday against the Phins. If it ends up looking like the Knights game revisited ....we are efed...!