Gay Bar

[fLIP]

What i want to know Dan is, if a gay group of men went to a bar and the bouncers said:

"Sorry Gentle men you are not allowed in this bar".

Why?

"Because you are gay"

What would you think the outcome of that situation would be?

 

[Dan]

[quote author=Daniel]
Oh and if anyone can answer for me why Doug thought saying \"Live and let Live\" indicated drug use that would be great too!

You said LET and let live dickhead, which makes absolutely no sense at all. Do you get it or do you need another pill?
[/quote]

So you never make typos champ or inadvertently type the wrong thing???

It is a low blow to accuse someone of being on drugs because of something like that, particularly in light of how fiercly i defended you for similar accusations just under a year ago.

If you are incapable of arguing a topic on its merits rather than resulting to personal abuse then don't enter the argument simply withdraw!

 

[Dan]

What i want to know Dan is, if a gay group of men went to a bar and the bouncers said:

\"Sorry Gentle men you are not allowed in this bar\".

Why?

\"Because you are gay\"

What would you think the outcome of that situation would be?

And what would that matter?

You are completely missing the point.

If you want a true measure of what you are trying to compare you would need the following scenario

- A club targeted at HeteroSexuals
- Heterosexuals being a minority
- Heterosexuals being harassed, abused, threatened and made a spectacle of by homosexual men in the club
- The club being granted a LEGAL exception to the law

Then the reaction would be simple, some people would be up in arms exactly as they are here, others wouldn't care. Either way the party being told they can not come in would not have a legal leg to stand on because the club has been granted an exception.

Why do you need to make the comparison?

Do you honestly feel your civil rights have been abused by this decision?

Do you think that it is fair that their civil and equal rights were being abused by the patrons that are now being banned?

Drawing your comparison is both pointless and naive

 

[fLIP]

Dan, I can completely understand that they want a place right away from the abuse and harassment they may go through when out for a night.

You didn't answer my question though.

Do I honestly feel your civil rights have been abused by this decision? No, but I believe it goes against everything that homosexuals are constantly fighting for; Equality.

And that is not equality.

Do you think that it is fair that their civil and equal rights were being abused by the patrons that are now being banned?

That is what bouncers are there for. I tell you now I have been given **** it clubs and pubs to took it like a man. FFS, why do we all think they are a protected species?

Do we have disabled bars for people in wheel chairs so they don't have to cop weird looks or stupid comments from drunk patrons.

There are already places for gays to go and when there they will NOT be a minority. This is just one step to far.

Once again, if a person wanted to have a drink away from the possible prying eyes of a gay man so they set up a gay free bar, what would the reaction be?

 

[Dan]

You have completely missed the point. You say you get it but your reply shows you do not

You are missing the pretense of the situation.

Equality is a label we placed, they dont want equality in the sense you are using it. Sure they want to be treated with the same rights as everyone else, but they also want to feel safe.

"That is what bouncers are there for. I tell you now I have been given [censored] it clubs and pubs to took it like a man. FFS, why do we all think they are a protected species?"
What is better prevention or stopping something once it has started. The point of the law is to protect people. which is exactly why they are granted an exemption. The owner of the business will lose his clients if they know they are going to have to put up with people abusing them everytime they step intot he bar, until the bouncers stop it.

"Once again, if a person wanted to have a drink away from the possible prying eyes of a gay man so they set up a gay free bar, what would the reaction be?"

**** dude.
Read my epid answer above I do not wish to repeat it and it completely answers your question

"Prying eyes of a gay man" could you be more of a homphobic bigot?

 

[Garts]

Agree with Dan on this, cant compare the 2 even you dont agree with them getting their own club/pub. Personally I dont agree with it but I dont really care anyway.

Surely it would not be that big a problem with people going to known gay bars to watch and get a kick out of seeing how they carry on, I know it would happen but I didnt think it would be a major problem.

I dont want to imagine what this place would be like on a Friday and Saturday with just gay men in there, it would be pretty bad. As we know what blokes are like regarding sex, when its men with men there wont be many inhibitions.

 

[fLIP]

Dan, for someone who doesn't like to be labeled as a drugs user you did a good job of implying I am homophobic for no real reason.

I am trying to weight it up better than your narrow view of they need to have their own place to go to hide from a society that is so mean to them.

I don't care that they have their own gay bars. I really don't. In fact two of my best mates through school were homosexuals and I know first hand that both of them would be all for the idea of having their own place... but keeping them out of another for the same reason?

It will create a massive dose of double standards. IMO, everybody should be allowed everywhere. It doesn't matter if your Male, Female, Black, White, Gay, Lesbian, Straight, German, Arab, Australian. Those who can't get on should be dealt with.

What you think is acceptable is taking a majority, ruling out everybody so that the minority of that group don't cause a problem.

In that case, nobody on this website should use it because someone might stir up trouble.

 

[clontaago]

[quote author=clontaago]
[quote author=Daniel]
Oh and if anyone can answer for me why Doug thought saying \"Live and let Live\" indicated drug use that would be great too!

You said LET and let live dickhead, which makes absolutely no sense at all. Do you get it or do you need another pill?
[/quote]



So you never make typos champ or inadvertently type the wrong thing???

It is a low blow to accuse someone of being on drugs because of something like that, particularly in light of how fiercly i defended you for similar accusations just under a year ago.

If you are incapable of arguing a topic on its merits rather than resulting to personal abuse then don't enter the argument simply withdraw!


[/quote]

Dan its a waste of time arguing with someone who:

A) Refuses to admit they are wrong on any occasion
B) Thinks they know absolutely everything on any given subject.

And again you have been shown up for the hypocrite you are. Do you recall making mention of Fluffys Mrs not so long ago?? At the time you thought it was hilarious. What's the difference, please enlighten me.

Also, if you didnt constantly talk down to people like you own them, this wouldnt be an issue. Others will cop it, I wont. Your website or not.

 

[Dan]

[quote author=Daniel]
[quote author=clontaago]
[quote author=Daniel]
Oh and if anyone can answer for me why Doug thought saying \"Live and let Live\" indicated drug use that would be great too!

You said LET and let live dickhead, which makes absolutely no sense at all. Do you get it or do you need another pill?
[/quote]



So you never make typos champ or inadvertently type the wrong thing???

It is a low blow to accuse someone of being on drugs because of something like that, particularly in light of how fiercly i defended you for similar accusations just under a year ago.

If you are incapable of arguing a topic on its merits rather than resulting to personal abuse then don't enter the argument simply withdraw!


[/quote]


And again you have been shown up for the hypocrite you are. Do you recall making mention of Fluffys Mrs not so long ago?? At the time you thought it was hilarious. What's the difference, please enlighten me.



[/quote]

Fine I will cop that. A hypocrite yes. But that is a topic between myself and another person!

In this case let me know how I am being hypocritical to YOU?

Also, if you didnt constantly talk down to people like you own them, this wouldnt be an issue. Others will cop it, I wont. Your website or not.

I haven't spoken down to anyone in any such way in this topic. I have simply spoken my point of view, presented my argument and given factual and specific reason for it. Is it too much to ask that those opposing my point of view do the same?

 

[Nutzcraw]

I also get the feeling you think your superior to all others here, dan.

I refer to this thread and the God thread.

 

[Dan]

I am trying to weight it up better than your narrow view of they need to have their own place to go to hide from a society that is so mean to them.

It will create a massive dose of double standards. IMO, everybody should be allowed everywhere. It doesn't matter if your Male, Female, Black, White, Gay, Lesbian, Straight, German, Arab, Australian. Those who can't get on should be dealt with.
[/quote]
In that case, nobody on this website should use it because someone might stir up trouble.
[/quote]

An absolutely ridiculous sttatement!

If you take your view, you are essentially saying hey, we should have ALL the supporter of ALL the other teams in here debating everything about every team and every topic and that in doing so we would all live in harmony without discord.

Is that the reality of it though fLIP?

 

[fLIP]

You are basing your entire argument on the fact that people give gays a hard time and so that makes it acceptable to ban straight people from their bar.

I am saying it is not their place to ban a majority to amend a problem caused by a minority.

If you are thrown out of the football because your mate is acting like a clown, you'd be pissed. So would I.

Do you have any problem with people who don't cause problems being allowed into the bar?

 

[Dan]

I also get the feeling you think your superior to all others here, dan.

I refer to this thread and the God thread.

When I debate I debate with an arrogant tone. It is a technique that is fairly common to most orators and debaters. The way you put things and present information is essential to getting that information across without being misquoted and without having your comments "Cherry picked' and taken out of context.

matas i am sure will understand

 

[Dan]

You are basing your entire argument on the fact that people give gays a hard time and so that makes it acceptable to ban straight people from their bar.

I am saying it is not their place to ban a majority to amend a problem caused by a minority.

If you are thrown out of the football because your mate is acting like a clown, you'd be pissed. So would I.

Do you have any problem with people who don't cause problems being allowed into the bar?

No fLIP I am pinning my entire argument on the FACTS of the case in point! You are pinning yours completely on speculation, which will hold up no where!

 

[fLIP]

"I have prsented you with logical and factual evidence"

Can you point out the evidence.

So far you have only stated personal opinion which you are labeling as evidence by assuming you are right.

Something that you have said above that I have been doing.

 

[fLIP]

No fLIP I am pinning my entire argument on the FACTS of the case in point! You are pinning yours completely on speculation, which will hold up no where!

No Dan.

Take a look at the banning of gay marriages! There are lob groups, there are protests there are ****ing marches to allow equal ****ing rights!

How can they not accept they can't marry but have us accept we cannot use their bars for the same bloody reason?

For the record I don't believe gays should be prevented from marrying.

 

[Dan]

\"I have prsented you with logical and factual evidence\"

Can you point out the evidence.

So far you have only stated personal opinion which you are labeling as evidence by assuming you are right.

Something that you have said above that I have been doing.

I refer to the article which states

The patrons were being harassed abused and made a spectacle of.

That is not opinion it is the evidence of which we have been supplied.

Your argument states at every step

"IF"

 

[Garts]

To be fair they make a spectacle of themselves imo!!!!

 

[clontaago]

It is impossible to reverse the situaiton, you need to get around the fact that \"if they were kept out\" the point is they arent and they are a minority. whether you like it or not there is a different consideration that is taken for minority groups. The same as you couldn't have a place that has \"No Asians\" because they are a minority. However on the reverse there is also no way they could have a \"no caucasions\" rule either.

Hang on a second. Caucasions arent a minority. Please explain the difference between having a "No caucasion rule", and a "No hetero's rule"

Isnt this the pure speculation you have been arguing?

 

[Dan]

[quote author=Daniel]
No fLIP I am pinning my entire argument on the FACTS of the case in point! You are pinning yours completely on speculation, which will hold up no where!

No Dan.

Take a look at the banning of gay marriages! There are lob groups, there are protests there are ****ing marches to allow equal ****ing rights!

How can they not accept they can't marry but have us accept we cannot use their bars for the same bloody reason?

For the record I don't believe gays should be prevented from marrying.
[/quote]


Completely different point.

Apples and oranges.

The gay marriage is a failure to recognise that
a) these relationships are legitimate, caring and loving relationships
b) The failure to recognise gay marriages is treating them like LESSER citizens

Saying they only want gay MEN in this bar is not recognising anyone as a lower person or citizen.

Do you understand the fundamental difference or would you like me to elaborate further?