Gang culture

  • We had an issue with background services between march 10th and 15th or there about. This meant the payment services were not linking to automatic upgrades. If you paid for premium membership and are still seeing ads please let me know and the email you used against PayPal and I cam manually verify and upgrade your account.
  • We have been getting regular requests for users who have been locked out of their accounts because they have changed email adresses over the lifetime of their accounts. Please make sure the email address under your account is your current and correct email address in order to avoid this in the future. You can set your email address at https://silvertails.net/account/account-details
  • Wwe are currently experience some server issues which I am working through and hoping to resolve soon, Please bare with me whilst I work through making some changes and possible intermittent outages.
  • Apologies all our server was runing rogue. I managed to get us back to a point from 2:45 today though there is an attachment issue i will fix shortly. Things should be smooth now though

Brookie Bob

"I come back to you now at the turn of the tide"

11:35 to 14:36 if the formatting is incorrect. If you've got a strong opinion on the wider topic, you might find some insight if you acknowledge the content.

All the best Manase.
No critical thinking, no logic, just abuse.

Says that Australia has 'no culture'.
It does, just not one that the speaker in the video can identify with - if he even knows it exists.

The Australian War Memorial might be a good point to start.
No - not to put forward that Australians are 'war mongerers' or similar.
But - if the person in the video could just shut up, tour the facility and learn about sacrifice, real mateship, the country itself and the concept of possibly dying for something much bigger than your own self-interest - maybe he might learn something.

The American rappers that these kids idolize come from a culture that says, "go big or go home."

Australia has it's own version: "go hard or go home." Big difference, if you look under the surface.

Respect used to be gained from "having a go."
I'm sure that one of the worst things a Manly player could ever hear at Brookvale was the crowd saying "have a go" in that tone - you know, the half-angry, disappointed, you've brought shame on the club tone.

It doesn't matter if you're indigenous, or arrived here from elsewhere, as most have. Someone - or probably a quite a few people - made a lot of sacrifices just so that our generation can live here. If the gangsta wannabees don't love Australia, I feel sorry for them. A long 'holiday' in south side Los Angeles may be just what they need.

Real Australian culture will never be discovered by those who are are steeped in self-interest.
 

Supreme Leader

Uber L77T playa

11:35 to 14:36 if the formatting is incorrect. If you've got a strong opinion on the wider topic, you might find some insight if you acknowledge the content.

All the best Manase.
In the video I can't work out who was worse? Really didn't think either were what I want representing the youth of the world? Showed mt daughter and even she was offended
 

Nike

Reserve Grader
In the video I can't work out who was worse? Really didn't think either were what I want representing the youth of the world? Showed mt daughter and even she was offended
Okay maybe the example was too blunt. Here is a more consumable form of his persona and message:


My point is there exists a large portion of our society today that actively identify and act with this criminal activity and status, yet the actual statistical trends remain consistent in a generational sense which to me indicates a continued insufficiency around the issue from all involved as the numbers overwhelmingly support.

Don't get me wrong. I am against unjust criminality of all forms. I am not endorsing violence, gangs or any other types of activities which cause harm to our society, including the failures of the justice system to apply proportionate penalties where justified. I am simply trying to provide you with a point of view from the people who are in these positions.

There are systemic issues far deeper than some "crazy" people, there are currently circumstances and inadequate safety nets which have left some people exposed to the temptations a desperate person would be drawn into out of necessity and then subsequently trapped within as by design. Yes, personal responsibility is not irrelevant like some may like to entertain of late but this can be remedied in a verifiably cheaper, more humane way that will not just provide economic and productivity benefits but wider societal wealth.

This is just my opinion, I understand I may not have as much experience from an academic standpoint but have unfortunately allegedly been in the vicinity of such things and empathise with all effected by this criminal culture which simply evolved from the previous, as will the next until we find a solution. Until then everyone's opinion is worth discussing and given consideration. Be careful not to equate youth culture to this, the influence overlaps and exists everywhere but this isn't the first culture that's been co-opted by nefarious operators.

Apologies for the late night essay, just wanted to acknowledge your reply and position, then to present mine in an attempt at some coherence, cheers.

Edit: @Brookie Bob I missed your message. Hopefully some of what I've written above might be applicable too. I'm happy to discuss it further as I have a few alleged intimate insights regarding the current going ons (not Manase, just in general) if you'd like but assume the subject a drag to talk, especially on Silvertails!
 
Last edited:

Bearfax

Grizzly old fart
Good summary Oliver. The other issue is that gangs are not necessarily criminal, but merely an association of young men (generally men or boys), who gain protection, a sense of belonging, respect within the group, brotherhood for some not easily attainable in their single lives. Unfortunately it becomes a Them and Us scenario and as Darth Vader suggests, leads to the dark side of the force. Gangs have existed throughout history, often tempered during times of war. Tribes tended to overcome this through a process of structured rites of passage. Unfortunately in large impersonal societies, this tends to break down.
 

SeaEagleRock8

Sea Eagle Lach
Premium Member
Tipping Member
there are currently circumstances and inadequate safety nets


for some not easily attainable in their single lives.
The groups we tend to refer to as gangs are from marginalised and disadvantaged communities. Otherwise they are not called gangs, but rather groups, or circles. Or cliques. Or clubs. Or syndicates, or companies, or political parties!
Feel free to make a thread in General forum as the 'gang question' is likely to get topical again when the trial is on.
 

Brookie Bob

"I come back to you now at the turn of the tide"
Good summary Oliver. The other issue is that gangs are not necessarily criminal, but merely an association of young men (generally men or boys), who gain protection, a sense of belonging, respect within the group, brotherhood for some not easily attainable in their single lives. Unfortunately it becomes a Them and Us scenario and as Darth Vader suggests, leads to the dark side of the force. Gangs have existed throughout history, often tempered during times of war. Tribes tended to overcome this through a process of structured rites of passage. Unfortunately in large impersonal societies, this tends to break down.
The groups we tend to refer to as gangs are from marginalised and disadvantaged communities. Otherwise they are not called gangs, but rather groups, or circles. Or cliques. Or clubs. Or syndicates, or companies, or political parties!
Feel free to make a thread in General forum as the 'gang question' is likely to get topical again when the trial is on.
@Oliver - the two posts above from @Bearfax and @SeaEagleRock8 summarize the situation well IMHO.

I'm not so far removed from all of it as folk may think; I lived in what would be considered one of the worst parts of Sydney throughout my teenage years. I've seen, and been way too close to, events that I've spent a lot of the intervening years trying to forget.I get why they want to belong to something, anything, that makes them feel wanted and accepted and part of something bigger.

At some point you have to choose your path, and it may diverge a lot from the one that you've been on. Hamole is a friend of Manase; but Hamole seems to be embracing the wider world that is opening up to him via the influence of 'other' team mates and people within the club.

I'm sure that Manly has enough good role models, in both the playing group and others, for Manase to choose the better path, one that takes him out of the 'immature' (for want of a better word) gang culture that surrounds him. Maybe this whole saga has got him thinking about just that - I hope it has.
 
  • 👍
Reactions: Nike

Supreme Leader

Uber L77T playa
Okay maybe the example was too blunt. Here is a more consumable form of his persona and message:


My point is there exists a large portion of our society today that actively identify and act with this criminal activity and status, yet the actual statistical trends remain consistent in a generational sense which to me indicates a continued insufficiency around the issue from all involved as the numbers overwhelmingly support.

Don't get me wrong. I am against unjust criminality of all forms. I am not endorsing violence, gangs or any other types of activities which cause harm to our society, including the failures of the justice system to apply proportionate penalties where justified. I am simply trying to provide you with a point of view from the people who are in these positions.

There are systemic issues far deeper than some "crazy" people, there are currently circumstances and inadequate safety nets which have left some people exposed to the temptations a desperate person would be drawn into out of necessity and then subsequently trapped within as by design. Yes, personal responsibility is not irrelevant like some may like to entertain of late but this can be remedied in a verifiably cheaper, more humane way that will not just provide economic and productivity benefits but wider societal wealth.

This is just my opinion, I understand I may not have as much experience from an academic standpoint but have unfortunately allegedly been in the vicinity of such things and empathise with all effected by this criminal culture which simply evolved from the previous, as will the next until we find a solution. Until then everyone's opinion is worth discussing and given consideration. Be careful not to equate youth culture to this, the influence overlaps and exists everywhere but this isn't the first culture that's been co-opted by nefarious operators.

Apologies for the late night essay, just wanted to acknowledge your reply and position, then to present mine in an attempt at some coherence, cheers.

Edit: @Brookie Bob I missed your message. Hopefully some of what I've written above might be applicable too. I'm happy to discuss it further as I have a few alleged intimate insights regarding the current going ons (not Manase, just in general) if you'd like but assume the subject a drag to talk, especially on Silvertails!
Showed him in a better light, this one says, he's trying to do the right thing, share his past warts and old. If it discourages would be thugs and criminals then that's great and gets my support.
 

Nike

Reserve Grader
The groups we tend to refer to as gangs are from marginalised and disadvantaged communities. Otherwise they are not called gangs, but rather groups, or circles. Or cliques. Or clubs. Or syndicates, or companies, or political parties!
Feel free to make a thread in General forum as the 'gang question' is likely to get topical again when the trial is on.
Respectfully I think we all know how the discussion would pan out on an alternate subforum although I agree with why you have suggested such. Personally I believe that it is an issue that involves not just the NRL (who have publicly acknowledged it), but our club (radio silence apart from Josh Aloiai's personal plea) in particular. If you let your imagination run for a moment have a think back to AFB's release and comments. I am not suggesting anything at all beyond what is on the public record, nor am I alleging anything of anyone. I do agree in general with your view and if the discussion is unwarranted, feel free to moderate accordingly.

Specific to the point made, that's traditionally correct however, as I'm unsure of where you reside I'll just provide you with some basic information relevant to our local area and the Manly Warringah Sea Eagles.

There are hundreds of the groups you mentioned all over Sydney, increasingly in affluent suburbs and they are definitely not all from the aforementioned communities. They are more often aligned along general geographical locations which means if we don't have our own local entity or equivalent there would naturally be a power vacuum, especially as surveys, census' and other measurements (waste water, etc) suggest that the Northern Beaches as a whole is a large procurer and consumer of illicit substances - especially the more "exclusive" or rather criminally lucrative offerings.

Now here's where it gets interesting, the previous mentioned alliances between small groups that has gained traction in the media under the moniker "Postcode Wars" is specifically between the two dominant, street level alliances know as Greater West and Inner West, I'll refer to them as their abbreviations GW and IW respectively. As there is no formal hierarchy due to it so far appearing to lack a supporting sophisticated organised crime network, it gets presented to you as what appears to be either "SYDNEY GANGLAND WARS" or just stupid kids fighting over "2xxx", this is misleading.

The most well known group within the GW faction is known as OneFour. OneFour is a notorious Mount Druitt group that along with factional allies and opposition groups has been targeted by NSW Police and Strike Force Raptor, the proactive and high-impact operation targeting outlaw motorcycle gangs and any associated criminal enterprises, established in 2009.

OneFour is also a hip-hop drill group that has received unparalleled levels of domestic and international exposure and success within the genre, on the cusp of making it with millions of streams, major label offers and were about to embark on their first international tour.

By late 2019 half the group was behind bars, its manager has been prohibited from interacting with group members and the OneFour tour was shut down after concerns were raised about public safety. This was the culmination of an unprecedented operation by NSW Police. Of particular note to me is the public comments by Raptor Squad officer Nathan Trueman stating they are "willing to use powers designed to target outlaw motorcycle gangs and terrorists." As worrying as this is to me, a law abiding citizen, this is an entirely unrelated topic.

Well let's bring it back to the relevance for our game, club and why I'm even posting in this thread. You may have heard Joey going on about the terrible music in the Penrith sheds after matches, this is it and pay particular attention to the bars:

Retaliation is a must, ain't no maybe, ifs or buts...
I got friends, looking at 10, you watched yours getting put in a box...
21 what? But one got knocked, ha, I guess that makes them 20


Where am I going with all this?

21928490-7765583-image-m-4_1575677629172.jpg


21 District, also known as IW, is currently a gang coalition comprising of mostly all of the suburbs with postcodes starting with 21, gaining support from the inner west to Manly. 21 District is also a hip-hop drill group like OneFour. Regarding these groups, the following NRL players have been reported throwing up gang signs such as:

Brian To'o - Performed the "Mounty Bop", a dance associated with OneFour and the Mount Druitt wider area.
Jerome Luai, Tyrone May and Stephen Crichton - All alleged to have or be associated with OneFour, evidence is purely anecdotal and coincidental due to where they grew up.
Moses Suli and Manase Fainu - Both have thrown up 21 District gang signs during game coverage. Note: "He also said police assertions Fainu was a member of a Pacific Islander criminal gang was "unsupported by evidence"
Josh Addo Carr - Has thrown up gang signs associated with Hooligan Hefs/Doonside(67), both of which being associated with IW.
Jack Wighton - Source.
Sitili Tupouinua - Rapping to 21 District and throwing up gang signs on video.
John Sutton and Reni Maitua - Bra Boys tattoos.

I'm not bothered to expand much further as the narrative is fairly consistent between the two, there are a number of confirmed and suspected offences associated with the current feud, including homicides. In the case there is still any confusion, in late 2019 OneFour released their song In The Beginning which contained another interesting bar:

Like how much times do we ride and the opp's got put on the news? (How much?)
And how much times do we step and the opp got sent to ICU?
21 what? But one got knocked
Gangs still out tryna make that two


Some context for the uninitiated who are unfamiliar with the term, an "opp" is slang for opposition, simply anyone in competition or against you.

Their rivals are not speculation, and known social media accounts affiliated with them have made it clear.

On a totally not unrelated note there was a press release dated 24 May 2022 which NSW Police say they have 'dismantled' Alameddine crime network after arresting 18 people. Yep, the same Alameddine's pictured here in 2016:

a9373f40333ef3025e5553f4c335c3be


Great, what's that got to do with anything?

Well another local rapper Ay Huncho, who has alleged links to the Alameddine crime family has recently generated headlines after releasing a rap music video trashing his rivals and was mentioned in the recent Operation Hawk raids as being charged in December with offences including participating in a criminal group. What this makes evident is an, admittedly tenuous, alleged link between f**king serious organised crime groups and their infiltration into specific youth cultures with NSW State Crime Commander Stuart Smith referring to Ay Huncho as someone who was allegedly active in recruiting foot soldiers.

Within our game, clubs and wider society this is nothing new, nor surprising. It is indicative of something that probably requires a closer inspection within the context of the NRL and it's clubs considering the existing information. I wouldn't be surprised if the lack of media attention is due to either ongoing investigations and/or pressure from relevant stakeholders and third parties who would have interests that could be linked or subjected to serious reputational, financial and/or other damages.

For the sake of balance I'm somewhat involved with in addition to being a fan of Australian hip-hop and some of its various subgenres, including drill. While I'm at it I'll also make a personal plea in vain to stop perpetuating the belief that the entire culture is somehow defined by this, is worse or more "corrupting" than previous trends (PMRC anyone?) and finally the incorrect assumption of it being another American cultural import, if anything the aforementioned artists are heavily influence by the British scene.

As an opinion disclaimer I would again like to emphasise that the views expressed are my own based on the information which has been publicly sourced and available, any individual(s) or groups who may be referenced or otherwise inferred are under no suggestion of any wrongdoing or guilt.
 
Last edited:

SeaEagleRock8

Sea Eagle Lach
Premium Member
Tipping Member
Just creating a thread for this spin-off from the Manase Fainu thread. Obviously the suggestion from some is that fainu's case is related to gang stuff, and we'll hear more about that as the trial unfolds.
 

SeaEagleRock8

Sea Eagle Lach
Premium Member
Tipping Member
Meanwhile, unless it is specifically related to Manase, general discussion of the issue is better off here. We don't need to prejudice his trial (in case any jurors read this site)!
 

SeaEagleRock8

Sea Eagle Lach
Premium Member
Tipping Member
Spotted this (yes spotted, lol) at the art gallery, had to squint but thought I saw ... gang signs! and I thought ... Footy!
Turns out it is a painting in the Archibald exhibition but I thought the artist's blurb [below] was interesting, a spin I hadn't considered really

1661373650257.png


The subject of Daniel Boyd’s portrait is OneFour, a hip-hop group originally from Mount Druitt in Sydney’s western suburbs. Regarded as pioneers of drill-rap in Australia, OneFour has developed a distinctive sound since forming in 2014, and has gained attention overseas.

Boyd became aware of OneFour when he heard their 2019 single Spot the difference. ‘Listening to OneFour, I was drawn to their energy, then again in 2020 after the death of George Floyd,’ says Boyd. Floyd, an African American man, was murdered by police in Minnesota, US, sparking racial justice protests worldwide.

Boyd sees OneFour as the product of the social inequity, classism, racism and censorship that exists in our society. He believes that their recalcitrant voice is full of complexity and has a role to play in highlighting police brutality, racial profiling and black deaths in custody in Australia.

‘The perpetuation of falsehoods about colonial history and the suppression of truth comes with consequences – trauma takes its toll on mental health. It is the responsibility of the government to address this for the collective growth of this country.’

Boyd is a first-time Archibald finalist. His major solo exhibition, Daniel Boyd: Treasure Island, is presented at the Art Gallery from 4 June 2022 to 29 January 2023.
 

BOZO

Journey Man
Tipping Member
I reckon our Silvertails forum Gang will give all other NRL forum Gangs a run for their money

And @Woodsie our fearless leader will lead the way !!!
 

Latest posts

Team P W L PD Pts
16 13 3 125 32
17 11 6 125 28
16 11 5 116 28
17 11 6 225 26
16 9 7 65 24
16 9 7 48 24
17 9 8 -56 24
17 9 7 67 23
17 9 8 1 22
17 8 9 -91 22
17 8 9 -81 20
18 7 10 -34 19
17 7 10 9 18
16 6 10 -59 18
16 6 10 -104 18
17 4 13 -153 14
17 4 13 -203 12
Back
Top Bottom