LiveBlog GAME DAY - Manly v Rabbitohs Rd 16, 2015 [1295890]

[Remi]

We got the dud brother.

The problem is they don't teach on positional defence,how many hanger ons at manly can teach the old way stay on the wing in defence a

Our defence was very poor again tonight, as it has been all season, there is something systematically wrong with it, and effort and intensity will only take you so far. We work our arses off for 20 mins, finally break through and within minutes concede. Okay fair enough it came from an error, but this has been happening week in week out. Even last week Manly were well on top, score first and applying all the pressure and then all of a sudden Tigers walk in for two.

It's not our size, a smaller pack last year held a South's pack containing Burgess and Teo'o to take the game home by 2.

It's not that Souths are simply a better team - as I said we conceded 20 points against Tigers last week and our points differential speaks for itself.

The amount of games we've been in this year and been competing and applying pressure and just getting on top only to not get over the line and the opposition walk down the other end and score at the first opportunity, it's becoming a weekly routine. We are so weak, and the knock-on effect of poor defence is not only conceding points but penalties.

People having a go at young Turbo, yeh he made a few poor choices tonight, but I don't know of any natural winger ever to automatically have the skill of always choosing when it's right to come in or stay wide on your man. That is hands down the most difficult aspect defensively wingers have to master, and they always need their centre as back-up in that situation which Tom didn't get tonight. He's not even a winger! The problem occurs far earlier than when Souths have the overlap running at Tom on his back foot forcing him to make a play for the ball. He deserves a bit of slack, it is the responsibility of the senior players and coaches to help him with that.. and as each week passes and we see the same team, the same tactics, the same problems and the same results, the more I am convinced Tooves isn't the guy to do it.

As I have said before. The wing position is a specialised position

Our defence was very poor again tonight, as it has been all season, there is something systematically wrong with it, and effort and intensity will only take you so far. We work our arses off for 20 mins, finally break through and within minutes concede. Okay fair enough it came from an error, but this has been happening week in week out. Even last week Manly were well on top, score first and applying all the pressure and then all of a sudden Tigers walk in for two.

It's not our size, a smaller pack last year held a South's pack containing Burgess and Teo'o to take the game home by 2.

It's not that Souths are simply a better team - as I said we conceded 20 points against Tigers last week and our points differential speaks for itself.

The amount of games we've been in this year and been competing and applying pressure and just getting on top only to not get over the line and the opposition walk down the other end and score at the first opportunity, it's becoming a weekly routine. We are so weak, and the knock-on effect of poor defence is not only conceding points but penalties.

People having a go at young Turbo, yeh he made a few poor choices tonight, but I don't know of any natural winger ever to automatically have the skill of always choosing when it's right to come in or stay wide on your man. That is hands down the most difficult aspect defensively wingers have to master, and they always need their centre as back-up in that situation which Tom didn't get tonight. He's not even a winger! The problem occurs far earlier than when Souths have the overlap running at Tom on his back foot forcing him to make a play for the ball. He deserves a bit of slack, it is the responsibility of the senior players and coaches to help him with that.. and as each week passes and we see the same team, the same tactics, the same problems and the same results, the more I am convinced Tooves isn't the guy to do it.

As I have mentioned before the wing position is a highly specialised position and you can't just throw anyone onto there. The Wolfman is a better choice. Tom is not a winger and neither is Gutho, both aren't even quick enough or strong enough and have always had problems with defence, but it's harder on the wing, you have to know your positional defence and you stay on your man in defence on the wing and the centre should slide across.
Tom had no positioning play at all and knowing to drop back quickly after the 5th tackle to be ready for the ball being kicked. Toovey thinks I will just throw someone onto the wing and it will be fine. Stupid !!
Wingers play wing and fullbacks play fullback

 

[skull61]

Plan A - Run hard, do your best.

Plan B - Run harder, try harder.

Plan C - Try a combination of Plans A & B.

This seems to work OK for Soufs

 

[TagMonster]

Also, considerong Mateo was what, 5/5 kicking last weekend, why the hell was Hiku kicking!

 

[brad]

Bring on myles , lussick , brown and throw in bird . We need more go forward in the front simple as that .

 

[Rex]

surprised no one is blowing up about vermins first try in 2nd half 2 forward passes no try ruling over ruled gotta be an investigation

The problem was that Cecchin ruled it was a no try because of a forward pass but incorrectly sent it upstairs for confirmation. Huge, huge mistake. Video refs cannot rule on forward passes - even if they go ten metres forward. Because everything else was legit, and a video ref verdict was requested by Cecchin, a try had to be awarded.

 

[Bird Up]

Hiku said recently he loves Tooves. If Hiku loves his coach and obviously Tooves loves him to give him the goal kicking over Feleti, surely Hiku would be giving his all.

I get what your saying but I'm not at all saying Hiku wouldn't be giving it his best for a coach he has a great reciprocal coach/player relationship with. I believe all of Tooves players go out there and give it all for him every week!

What I mean is that there are many facets and levels of a player/coaches relationship and connection, and Kearny has learnt how to get into Hiku's head, learn what makes him tick and what switches him on mentally before a game. Kearny has found that optimal balance mentally and physically to bring out the best in Hiku's game. I also think a contributing factor is that Kearny has also learnt to understand Hiku culturally and how very different NZ Maori and Polynesian players are to let's say your born and bred Aussie kid!

I'm not saying Tooves has not made that kind of connection with Hiku, what I'm saying that Kearny's connection with Hiku is on a completely different level to that of Tooves.

All coaches connect with their players differently and on different levels and there are many surrounding factors and influences that also impact on their connection. No coaches strategy to making that connection is wrong, but there are coaches who just click with a player and that kind of connection allows a player to perform better for them than they would with a different coach who doesn't quite have that same connection.

 

[cherry_poppins]

The problem was that Cecchin ruled it was a no try because of a forward pass but incorrectly sent it upstairs for confirmation. Huge, huge mistake. Video refs cannot rule on forward passes - even if they go ten metres forward. Because everything else was legit, and a video ref verdict was requested by Cecchin, a try had to be awarded.

It touched the ground could've been called a knock on

 

[TokyoEagle]

I get what your saying but I'm not at all saying Hiku wouldn't be giving it his best for a coach he has a great reciprocal coach/player relationship with. I believe all of Tooves players go out there and give it all for him every week!

What I mean is that there are many facets and levels of a player/coaches relationship and connection, and Kearny has learnt how to get into Hiku's head, learn what makes him tick and what switches him on mentally before a game. Kearny has found that optimal balance mentally and physically to bring out the best in Hiku's game. I also think a contributing factor is that Kearny has also learnt to understand Hiku culturally and how very different NZ Maori and Polynesian players are to let's say your born and bred Aussie kid!

I'm not saying Tooves has not made that kind of connection with Hiku, what I'm saying that Kearny's connection with Hiku is on a completely different level to that of Tooves.

All coaches connect with their players differently and on different levels and there are many surrounding factors and influences that also impact on their connection. No coaches strategy to making that connection is wrong, but there are coaches who just click with a player and that kind of connection allows a player to perform better for them than they would with a different coach who doesn't quite have that same connection.

Forward packs going forward also have the same influence.

 

[Bird Up]

Kearney coached the squeels to a wooden spoon, Tooves coached Manly to a grand final.Apples with oranges!

Some coaches find their niche in coaching whole premiership seasons and some coaches find their niche coaching representative tournaments.
Tooves has coached a team to an NRL premiership and Kearny has coached a team to multiple Four Nations Championships....... So yeah definitely apples with oranges right there!

 

[HK_Eagle]

Seriously, what the Fark did Toovey and the boys say at halftime? "Umm, even though we were the better team by default in the first half, let's change our strategy and run one off hit ups in the second half. Drop the intensity because I don't want you to use all your energy. Oh, and Jake, you have made too many great tackles in the middle so let's keep you off so some of the other guys can have a chance to try."

 

[globaleagle]

Wow, just finished watching and the second half was just very disappointing. I think I was more ok with our flogging against brisbane.

But with both foz and dce v a reynolds-less side we should've done better.

It's was like the old adage of the frog in slowly heating up water....You just felt we were playing ok and were almost on top...then the score board reads 20-8. Then you think how in the world did that happen??

 

[globaleagle]

Seriously, what the Fark did Toovey and the boys say at halftime? "Umm, even though we were the better team by default in the first half, let's change our strategy and run one off hit ups in the second half. Drop the intensity because I don't want you to use all your energy. Oh, and Jake, you have made too many great tackles in the middle so let's keep you off so some of the other guys can have a chance to try."

It was a really noticeable difference....even I saw it (that's saying something) so I agree. If 2V changed it, why? If not...couldn't he see it happening and get a message out?

Disappointing and disillusioning so say the least.

I'm drinking Bundy.....ginger beer!

 

[Wombat64]

Hiku is the question
Mona Vale raiders is the answer

They don't want him.

 

[rifraff]

As the number one ticket holder Tony Abbott should revoke Hasson' citizenship.

 

[HoldenV8]

Why does everyone continue to heap the blame onto individual players rather than the team structure? It was obvious out there last night that one side was well drilled defensively and the other side wasn't. Hardly the fault of individual players.

 

[Ralphie]

Why does everyone continue to heap the blame onto individual players rather than the team structure? It was obvious out there last night that one side was well drilled defensively and the other side wasn't. Hardly the fault of individual players.

True & that's down to coaching. The individual performance of Hasson was still diabolical.

 

[rifraff]

Is DCE trying to be greedy for meters when he kicks for touch from a penalty or when he goes downtown cause he has a does it at least 5 times a year, kicks out on the full or doesn't find touch

 

[bob dylan]

I give our Effort a 7.5 out of 10, and once again our execution a 5 out of 10.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

You just felt we were playing ok and were almost on top...then the score board reads 20-8. Then you think how in the world did that happen??

The Souths try right after half time was an incorrect decision with a blatant forward pass. Another of their tries seemed flukish when Johnston pushed it on to Keary. We didn't get the rub of the green.
However it was a high quality match and Souths played better than they have since the first couple of rounds when people said they were unbeatable. Their defence was impressive especially the 2nd half.

I predicted we'd win but Souths were the better team last night. However they knew they were in a match. There is not much between top and bottom in this comp.

 

[HoldenV8]

The problem with the Goodwin try was that Checchin sent it upstairs to look for a knock on. That knock on was actually a forward pass as Gray passed it when Turbo Tom was tackling him over the sideline. The video ref can't rule on a forward pass even though Gray passed it before the corner post and it first hit the ground in the in-goal area. Once Checchin sent it upstairs there was no way they couldn't rule it a try because there was clearly no knock on.

It was a bad mistake. Even Fittler commented that it looked like he wanted to rule it forward but made the mistake of sending it to the video ref and compounded it by asking them to check a knock on.

SeaEagleRock8, I wouldn't say it was a high quality match. There were numerous dropped balls from both sides, more than a few missed tackles and all game neither ref seemed to have a clue what they were doing. It was a forward pass-a-thon from the start. I mean, the one Foran got away with about 10 minutes into the game was simply diabolical, it was well over a metre forward, and it didn't get any better.