Four Corners

[Canteen Worker]

My daughter has a friend who apparently witnessed the Watmough incident. She claims that Choc was indiscreet but that the father took offence at something he said and jostled him.

Acoording to her a few Manly players had too much to drink but they were hardly all rolling drunk as suggested in this programme.

Sadly Manly took a few hits, despite the fact that the club has led the way in its public image over the past number of years.

 

[Rex]

My daughter has a friend who apparently witnessed the Watmough incident. She claims that Choc was indiscreet but that the father took offence at something he said and jostled him.

Acoording to her a few Manly players had too much to drink but they were hardly all rolling drunk as suggested in this programme.

Sadly Manly took a few hits, despite the fact that the club has led the way in its public image over the past number of years.

Did you watch the show C/W?  My understanding is that what he said about her is not actually under dispute.  She claimed offence and the feeling of intimidation.  And her body language authentically matched her words.  Anyone with any common sense or class would have smoothed the waters, retracted and apologised if offence was taken.  Seriously ... how much effort would that take? The whole incident may well have disappeared off the radar if he had.  Of course conspiracy theorists with their "inside knowledge" of her thoughts are welcome to dispute this as a possible outcome.

 

[Fluffy]

CW dont you know that the media knows better than real facts, let rex keep listening to there wankers.

in any other industry you would have to declare a conflict of interest before going down these paths as it is only to make money for yourself

 

[Canteen Worker]

I saw the show and I am sure that Watmough came across as the girl claimed. That is why I wrote 'indiscreet' as part of the issue is that professional sportsmen in many codes are protected from the consequences of the real world by clubs and managers in 'synthetic environments', all so that they can do what they do so well on weekends.

I agree that attitudes towards women need to be changed.

My other point though regarding the Choc incident is that the fight bit was two 'alpha males' standing head to head and that the father was not the innocent angel as one side suggested tonight.

 

[Canteen Worker]

The programme was interesting, though again, it was one side of the story given and it focussed on league when I dare suggest that most codes would have their 'skeletons in their closets'.  There is a poster on this forum who claims inside knowledge on the Dane Tilse Bathurst incident. believing him to be innocent and taking the wrap for others and that the true story never saw the light of day.

 

[Chip and Chase]

Well if the Dane Tilse incident happened like she described it then I'm assuming that she ID'd him. She even mentioned him by name, which suggests she is comfortable with the fact that it was him. Not 100% foolproof I agree, but unlikely to be the basis of a conspiracy theory given the way the incident was described. And why would Dane Tilse "take the wrap" for others if he had nothing to do with it ?

Why does there always seem to be a mitigating circumstance to lessen the players culpability in some peoples eyes.

 

[Chip and Chase]

By the way does anyone really think that Roy Masters had no knowledge of this sort of stuff going on at a club where he was coaching, and that he didn't participate in condoning it by not doing anything about it ? He seemed pretty knowledgeable on the so called "bonding benefits" of group sex among players for someone who had never allowed it to happen on his watch. As usual his story smelt funny.

 

[mwsneagle]

Charmane Pavati hmmm she is a gem of a girl isn't she?

Yep she is a real peach - even after her alleged rape she is still "hooking" up what seemed to be many willing girls for her footballer friends....

Sorry Rex - I didn't think the sponsor's daughter looked very honest, (my opinion only) it was another cue for her to show her modelling skills (which she did) and gather more media attention... Does that mean Choc didn't insult her? No, but maybe not to the degree she is claiming...I read earlier that Grant Mayer said the incident was to do between Watmough and the sponsor and that is why he apologised to him. And the club apologised to the daughter and the family as a sign of good faith and offered them tickets to a game (family tennis box) which was gratefully accepted.

The Cronulla '02 incident was pretty disturbing. To think it was considered a form of male/team bonding - EWWWWWW. But I don't know.. At each stage it was stated that was not a sexual assault by 4 corners so I don't know (I guess more so for legal reasons) - did we need to know about it? Or if it was consentual should it have been left in private?
Obviously the young girl involved is traumatised and still very full of anger but given it was really only one side of the story how can we determine why?
Was it initially consentual then got out of hand?
Not at all consentual?
Consentual but not at all what she imagined?
Was her reputation destroyed after participation?

Either way it's not a very savoury thought for any of those involved.


Given the treatment of Brett Stewart this year it is very hard to take what the media is reporting as gospel.

 

[Fro]

There is a poster on this forum who claims inside knowledge on the Dane Tilse Bathurst incident. believing him to be innocent and taking the wrap for others and that the true story never saw the light of day.

The actual story is well known in town up here, an "open secret" if you wish, Tilse was a young up and comer who was well looked after by the knights to put his hand up and his mouth shut.

 

[The Gronk]

I don't care about who did what to whom and so on, but there's no excuse for doing something to a girl that has her traumatised years later. 

What I don't get is why the players want one girl and a bunch of guys as their group.  Surely if they have women throwing themselves at them like it seems, you would want things the other way around? I know I would. 

 

[Dan]

I don't care about who did what to whom and so on, but there's no excuse for doing something to a girl that has her traumatised years later. 

What I don't get is why the players want one girl and a bunch of guys as their group.  Surely if they have women throwing themselves at them like it seems, you would want things the other way around? I know I would. 

Yeah call me conservative, but I tag-teaming is not top of my list. I'd rather have the 1 girl and a pack of viagra

 

[Rex]

Fluffy, CW, mws, totally up to you whether you hold onto your thoughts.  Totally up to you whether you consider there is any possibility those thoughts may not be true.

There are direct consequences arising from the belief systems we hold.  We can label particular racial groups as culturally abusive to women, even engage in wars partly justified by that belief, and still not see our own equivalent behaviours and attitudes.

The young players who were presented scenarios of females being raped, and then men being raped in equivalent circumstances, as a group universally blamed the women who were raped (without any empathy) and contrastingly totally empathised with the guys who were raped.  It took the senior players running the sessions to point out the inconsistency! The loss of seasoned heads like Menzies counts as much off the field as on.

Some people may wish these abuse-of-women-by-players situations would continue to be swept under the carpet, but the reality of the world now is that they aren't. Manly either adapts to the new world or faces the consequences, including lower crowds.  Bleating on sites like this one might be nice but won't change that reality.

 

[Rex]

Charmane Pavati hmmm she is a gem of a girl isn't she?

Did you notice you selected her for denigration and were totally silent about all of the guys Dan? What's that about?

 

[Crusher_Cleal]

What a lousy show by 4 Corners. Instead of bringing something interesting to the table with this topic, like professional experts in this field, rather than Charmayne Pavati who carries little credibility in my eyes (I of course 100% condemn that one story she went through, I'm more talking about her exploits in trying to meet these guys and setting them up with other women) they simply went through past events (some very old) as if they were doing a timeline. 4 Corners has lost massive credibility in my eyes, it was a completely inept performance by the reporters in charge. They could have really driven home how this impacts the community/society with some good reporting, but were woefully inept.

 

[Crusher_Cleal]

Actaully, the one good thing this show did was bring attention to society that alot of women aren't reporting rapes/assaults because of fear of retribution, damage of reputation, etc. This is a big problem. We don't want women to be scared to come forward to the police with these things just because they are tackling an organisation with more power than themselves.

 

[Dan]

[quote author=Dan link=topic=180349.msg222320#msg222320 date=1242039639]
Charmane Pavati hmmm she is a gem of a girl isn't she?

Did you notice you selected her for denigration and were totally silent about all of the guys Dan? What's that about?
[/quote]

note the time I commented on it. It was right when the whole Charmane part was on.

The guys are simply young, dumb and poorly educated. Nothing they are doing is right.

Charmane however knows exactly what she is doing and doesn't come off as the type of daughter I would be proud of.

I thought that young fella from the nights was an absolute moron too.

I also though good on Vagana or whoever it was who was running the course and trying to educate the kids.

You think Charmane is a Gem?

 

[DSM5]

I heard Gallop on  the ABC this morning.  Said nothing about how the game relies on booze for a major part of their funding and he would work towards minimizing that.  Nothing about the self outed Joey Johns drug taking, the self outed Mathew Johns sex stupidity and how they are promoted by the League, and he would do something about that.  Nothing about how women are promoted at matches in their scanties kicking up the legs and how he would do something about it.  Sure sexist attitudes are a societal problem and the issues of sexism et al should be dealt with at home, but the League is culpable in its promotion of sexist behaviour and the promotion of guys who stupidly indulge in anti social behaviour, ala the Johns 'boys'.  Keep nibbling at the edges Gallopfool.   

 

[Rex]

[quote author=Rex link=topic=180349.msg222367#msg222367 date=1242083087]
[quote author=Dan link=topic=180349.msg222320#msg222320 date=1242039639]
Charmane Pavati hmmm she is a gem of a girl isn't she?

Did you notice you selected her for denigration and were totally silent about all of the guys Dan? What's that about?
[/quote]

note the time I commented on it. It was right when the whole Charmane part was on.

The guys are simply young, dumb and poorly educated. Nothing they are doing is right.

Charmane however knows exactly what she is doing and doesn't come off as the type of daughter I would be proud of.

I thought that young fella from the nights was an absolute moron too.

I also though good on Vagana or whoever it was who was running the course and trying to educate the kids.

You think Charmane is a Gem?
[/quote]

lol.  Why judge Charmaine to be something other than Charmaine? What is your concept of "Gemness" and why do you think this describes Charmaine in her totality, and none of the guys? Notice in your response how you explained and normalised (ie condoned) the boys behaviour and damned Charmaine's?  

You say Charmaine isn't the type of daughter you would be proud of, and make no similar comment about any of the guys.  Does this mean you condone (even approve of) their actions and not hers?  

It's fun chatting with you Dan. Trust you don't take anything I say seriously ... unless you do.

 

[Dan]

[quote author=Dan link=topic=180349.msg222370#msg222370 date=1242083985]
[quote author=Rex link=topic=180349.msg222367#msg222367 date=1242083087]
[quote author=Dan link=topic=180349.msg222320#msg222320 date=1242039639]
Charmane Pavati hmmm she is a gem of a girl isn't she?

Did you notice you selected her for denigration and were totally silent about all of the guys Dan? What's that about?
[/quote]

note the time I commented on it. It was right when the whole Charmane part was on.

The guys are simply young, dumb and poorly educated. Nothing they are doing is right.

Charmane however knows exactly what she is doing and doesn't come off as the type of daughter I would be proud of.

I thought that young fella from the nights was an absolute moron too.

I also though good on Vagana or whoever it was who was running the course and trying to educate the kids.

You think Charmane is a Gem?
[/quote]

lol.  Why judge Charmaine to be something other than Charmaine? What is your concept of "Gemness" and why do you think this describes Charmaine in her totality, and none of the guys? Notice in your response how you explained and normalised (ie condoned) the boys behaviour and damned Charmaine's?  

You say Charmaine isn't the type of daughter you would be proud of, and make no similar comment about any of the guys.  Does this mean you condone (even approve of) their actions and not hers?  

It's fun chatting with you Dan. Trust you don't take anything I say seriously ... unless you do.
[/quote]

There isn't a whole lot I take seriously. Ive owned this site for long enough to grow pretty thick skin and realise 90% or more of what people say is tongue in cheek

 

[Guest]

I think that you will find that senior police are now sick and tired of footballers carrying on like they own the world.

Any future bad behaviour will be a lot harder to sweep under the carpet and what happened to Bird and Brett will be the start of a much harder line taken by the cops. 

Players will be charged whenever possible and they will be left with huge legal bills as they try and clear their name.