Footy - 1990's to Now

[Technical Coach]

I've been watching the 90's games one after another on fox too. As i said in an earlier thread, anyone who thinks the game is better now than it was 20+ years ago needs to watch these old games.
I agree with everything you've said Maxta. Todays players are all programmed to a specific game plan. The amount of long range out of nowhere tries scored in the old games makes for a real spectacle. Players not being afraid to try things is a thing of the past.

Just like the corporate/company world the more structured and organized an operation is, the more efficient it tends to become and the more accountability in ones individual performance.(but can also stifle creativity and ideas)

As soon as one team improved upon this area of the game during the amateur then to semi professional era others had to follow.

"Yes the game is better now" depending on what you appreciate more----- "semi professional bad defensive structures and errors with tired defensive lines creating holes/opportunities all over the place or "a chess match trying to break the tight grip of well structured defences that make the right choices under less fatigue due in part to more interchanges and better fitness"

The tide is turning, defences are so well structured, all teams are improving in the wrestle that the power game and second phase are ways to break down structured lacking fatigue defensive lines.

I don't enjoy watching tacklers not given the opportunity to get into marker, they should be allowed to slow the play the ball down in a manner that shows they are trying to wrestle themselves into a marker position---not just hold down the tackled player with no effort to get to marker.

Show and go long distance breaks and tries are boring to watch, modern players are far more skillful than the past.

If the game goes to 6 interchanges it will create cricket scores, at 10 there is not enough fatigue, i think 8 is the right number but probably still a touch too high---i would rather err on a few too many than create cricket scores at 6.

 

[Technical Coach]

Just how good were,Tooves,Cliffy,Beaver,Kosef,
I mean really good in all facets of the game

I wouldn't say they were really good in all facets of the game but great in some facets.

 

[maxta]

I wouldn't say they were really good in all facets of the game but great in some facets.

Hard to please TC.
Imo if we had these 4 players in our 2018 squad, feel confident of a premiership.
As for this super modern structured defence today - Cliffy in his prime would tear it to shreds.

 

[Technical Coach]

Hard to please TC.
Imo if we had these 4 players in our 2018 squad, feel confident of a premiership.
As for this super modern structured defence today - Cliffy in his prime would tear it to shreds.

As much as i love Cliffy he would not be as dominant in this day and age against set defensive lines that rush up and in----still will create holes but not at the same frequency.

Cliffy at times struggled against the Dogs umbrella defensive patterns in the past.

Being great in all facets means you can pass, ball-play, defend, kick, have great footwork with the best of them----none of these players possess great skills in all facets, but great in some facets.

For a quick example Toovey, basically just held the slide defence and kept it honest on the inside before shifting the ball to Cliffy---not a ball player and could hardly kick the ball.

 

[maxta]

As much as i love Cliffy he would not be as dominant in this day and age against set defensive lines that rush up and in----still will create holes but not at the same frequency.

Cliffy at times struggled against the Dogs umbrella defensive patterns in the past.

Being great in all facets means you can pass, ball-play, defend, kick, have great footwork with the best of them----none of these players possess great skills in all facets, but great in some facets.

For a quick example Toovey, basically just held the slide defence and kept it honest on the inside before shifting the ball to Cliffy---not a ball player and could hardly kick the ball.

The defensive lines today train to be robotic, against robotic attack.... but you can’t train to shut down a masterful ball player who runs on instinct- it’s not in the book.
I feel the Dogs game was more a physical approach to minimise Lyons and to be honest....his runners were taken out early, late and high.
In today’s game there would have been 3 Dogs binned and penalties all day.
If you recall Ellery Hanley for Tigers they done the same thing to him - basically took out key players in big games and got away with it.

 

[Technical Coach]

The defensive lines today train to be robotic, against robotic attack.... but you can’t train to shut down a masterful ball player who runs on instinct- it’s not in the book.
I feel the Dogs game was more a physical approach to minimise Lyons and to be honest....his runners were taken out early, late and high.
In today’s game there would have been 3 Dogs binned and penalties all day.
If you recall Ellery Hanley for Tigers they done the same thing to him - basically took out key players in big games and got away with it.

Conversely Manly's blocker plays would be pulled up also.

 

[Technical Coach]

A.Johns was really the first complete player and good in all facets of the game.

 

[midsteyne]

And I'll chuck in Daniel gartner.
Him and oj Cunningham were bloody underrated.

And Terry Hill

 

[Frank]

Agree with the OP. The number of interchanges we have has ruined the game. It is now played by robots who go out and give it their all for 20 minutes. Without the fatigue factor "elusive" players and creative halves are dinosaurs. These days we think a half that can fire a bullet pass to a massive robot running at a hole is awesome.

Our game is rubbish and administered corruptly and poorly. As each year passes I am becoming less interested.

 

[manly al]

Snake"s suggestion is probably the most practical in terms of nullifying the wrestle ' gang style ' tackling tactics . Bigger bodies and more power level players in recent times also have contributed to the contemporary playing trends and power based , percentage orientated structures but nothing still beats a competitive and hard running pack going forward and creating more space for the still talented modern play makers . Two refs , on balance and in practical terms , something the game should really dispense with , in the best interests of the code .

 

[manly al]

A.Johns was really the first complete player and good in all facets of the game.[/QUO Two good and interesting posts on this subject previously from you but while not doubting your specific rating of A . Johns , i would say that one R . Fulton and one W, Lewis were originally the complete all round players before Johns appeared on the scene .

 

[maxta]

The fact Cliffy would be nullified in today's game says it all really. Yippee, we can now watch two well drilled defensive sides dominate the ruck with wrestle in a grinding bore-fest, with the best side (the storm) being the one which has got "game management" down to a fine art.

Make no mistake - Cleary, Cronk, Moylan, Maloney can still destroy teams in today's game - Lyons would still dominate.
The best chance to limit Lyons was mentioned above - Illegal tactics taking out his runners on and off the ball and late shots on him as the Dogs done in the 95 GF....would not get away with that today and unlike today's halves - Lyons would float around BOTH sides of the ruck playing outside the structures these lads train for and create havoc ALL day.
The rest is correct - the wrestle, grind and field position is not always a great spectacle...

 

[Frank]

If it wasn't for Manly, I wouldn't follow it at all. Back in the 90's, used to look forward to seeing most non-Manly games on TV. Now, I never watch non-Manly games outside of the finals, and then I usually lose interest pretty quickly. The Refs have far too large a bearing on the game today. And the game has just become too boring.

100% agree. What the Penn's have done to Manly may one day see me lose total interest.

My FC membership is all that is left atm.

 

[Technical Coach]

The fact Cliffy would be nullified in today's game says it all really. Yippee, we can now watch two well drilled defensive sides dominate the ruck with wrestle in a grinding bore-fest, with the best side (the storm) being the one which has got "game management" down to a fine art.

It would be disappointing to say the least if defensive structures and line speed were not able to improve/evolve over the years in coping with such a brilliant ball player.

 

[Technical Coach]

Agree with the OP. The number of interchanges we have has ruined the game. It is now played by robots who go out and give it their all for 20 minutes. Without the fatigue factor "elusive" players and creative halves are dinosaurs. These days we think a half that can fire a bullet pass to a massive robot running at a hole is awesome.

Our game is rubbish and administered corruptly and poorly. As each year passes I am becoming less interested.

You either allow some form of wrestle and at least 6 interchanges if you want to keep the 10m rule or

Zero wrestle, 6 or less interchanges and hope the evolution in skill levels, speed and hopefully increased fatigue levels(going back only 5m may nullify some the reduced interchange gains) is able to create enough points to keep the game interesting.

 

[Technical Coach]

The limited footage i have seen of Fulton was all about his running game, nothing spectacular about his kicking or passing to warrant "great in every facet of the game" which would hold up today----Fultons running game/turn of speed and balance was beautiful to watch though and would still hold up today.

Wally Lewis didn't have a great left to right pass---i actually rate his younger sharper years more highly than the second half of his career.

A.Johns could pass both ways with some level of ball-playing ability off both sides, great long and short kicking game(plus a creative kicking game that was groundbreaking), could straighten and take the line on with strength and short explosion(in his younger years), defensively strong and one of the best goal kickers we have seen.(All these skills he displayed will hold up in any era)

 

[Technical Coach]

Cliffy was a great all rounder. Great passer, good speed, more than handy kicking game, very good defender and a great competitor.

Handy kicking for it's time but would it stand up to todays games standards----with A.Johns you don't have to look at his skillset and features and think (would the level he attained in ever facet of the game skillset wise be out of step with todays standards).

 

[Technical Coach]

Progress doesn't necessarily equal improvement. There aren't many people who watch league to enjoy the defensive structures and line speed. It may be a "technically" better game today, but that doesn't make it a better spectacle. In my opinion, it's the exact opposite.

Watching all the flaws and poor techniques used in some of the old footage detracts from the spectacle.

 

[Loobs]

The gradual change in the pace of the game wasn’t so noticeable as it happened but when you go back and watch an 80’s or 90’s game it’s generally pretty horrible.

 

[Ryan]

Anyone else watching this 2011 game against The Storm? Famous game where Gift got in a punch on with Blair.

Jesus Christ we were beasts. It's like we bullied and intimidated them out of it.