Fainu Off Field Drama

[yokahontas]

Not sure I've said it was all Manlys fault. The club is only dealing with this mess because a stupid decision made by a young man.

My point is that Manly has handled the fallout terribly...in my opinion. This may differ to you.

Regardless of who was involved, someone on the clubs behalf should have said "you know what, this situation isn't a great one for anyone involved, if the kids not mentally fit enough to answer to a court of law (at least that's the perception given section 32), he isn't fit enough to debut for first grade with this hanging over him".
The club is in a bad way and I'm shocked that the club took this pathway knowing there would be public and media backlash.

All I have is my own opinion Woodsie. Apologies if you find it deplorable.

I know if I was coaching a kid who had done what has been alledged, I would have stood him down pending the process. It's not only best for the girl in question and the club but also Fainu who obviously doesn't feel as though he can answer the charge in a normal court of law.
Standing kids down prematurely makes a statement to everyone. It defines your culture. What's acceptable and what's not.

Regardless of reality and what the legal advice is, he has publicly admitted mental health issues... therefore that is the perception.

I find the kids actions deplorable.
I find the clubs handling of this situation (and others this year) deplorable.

Each to their own.

Section 32 doesn’t mean he doesn’t have to face a ‘normal’ court, it means they’re requesting that he be discharged (by the normal court) without a conviction being recorded, under Section 32. There are numerous options for a magistrate to discharge without conviction (hence the numbers go as high as 32, presumably higher). This can be conditional (like a good behaviour bond, so if you don’t commit any offences during the period of the bond, at the end it’s basically as if it never happened, for criminal record check type purposes) or unconditional (it’s basically wiped straight away without the need to serve out a bond period).

A lot of people would be familiar with a Section 10 ‘guilty, no conviction recorded’ - people get them all the time for stuff like traffic offences, minor assaults etc. If you ever find yourself facing court on a relatively minor, first offence, any lawyer worth his/her salt will consider asking for a S.10 discharge just based on your record and generally good character. I believe the good behaviour bond one is a Section 9. Section 32 just means the same applies, with a stipulation that you complete some sort of MH treatment before the conviction gets wiped, basically.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

If it wasn’t for school holiday grandchildren minding I’d be like @niccipops and out there next a campfire and a river oblivious to the world other than when I turned the SAT TV on once a week to watch Manly play.

I sometimes think the modern world with an instant everything is in some ways a backwards step!!

 

[yokahontas]

My point isn't about whether he is guilty or not. It's that he's used section 32 of the mental health Act.
In using that, I'm of the belief that the club should have stood him down until such time as he was capable of facing the charges without it.

If you suffer from mental illness, mental condition or cognitive impairments should you really be making your first grade debut when you have been charged with intentionally recording an intimate image without consent and then posting on social media...? In my opinion, no.

Each to their own though. Just my opinion.

What if those ‘cognitive impairments’ are something like a learning difficulty (which, I’d contend, would probably not be uncommon amongst footballers)? What if your mental illness or condition is depression or anxiety? Should those conditions preclude you from pursuing your career, and advancement in your field? Bit harsh, given all of the above are generally lifelong conditions. What if he’s autistic? Should he never be allowed to play again?

And he’s not requesting to be ‘heard’ under S. 32, he’s asking to be ‘discharged’ under that Section. Which means - he admits responsibility/guilt, and requests that the court take into account whatever the applicable condition is when deciding his punishment. Noting that one of the options, like the S.10 I mentioned earlier, is ‘unconditional’ - basically, guilty, no conviction recorded, learn your lesson and don’t come back. The difference would be, in some other cases such as S.9/S.10, it’s generally decided then and there when you plead guilty and request discharge under those Sections. Obviously with the MH related Section, there may be a need for further reports etc so the court can decide which of the discharge options under S.32 is appropriate.

 

[lsz]

My point isn't about whether he is guilty or not. It's that he's used section 32 of the mental health Act.
In using that, I'm of the belief that the club should have stood him down until such time as he was capable of facing the charges without it.

If you suffer from mental illness, mental condition or cognitive impairments should you really be making your first grade debut when you have been charged with intentionally recording an intimate image without consent and then posting on social media...? In my opinion, no.

Each to their own though. Just my opinion.

I can understand your point however I still do not think it is the right time to make a call until there is a solid decision

 

[40 years an eagle]

His lawyer would be the one who suggested the section 32 avenue. As if a 19yo would know of it, I would bet nobody here even knew of it, or even anyone outside law practice.

The fact that the NRL knew of the charge, and still registered him as an NRL contracted player, leads me to think that maybe this is a much more minor event than what is being bashed on about. I can't believe the club and the NRL would allow his registration if it is a case as full-blown as some are making it out.
There are so few facts available so let's wait for some.

 

[yokahontas]

If he had one of the conditions you mentioned above he would be defined as mentally ill wouldn't he?.

Not quite - you have to refer back to the Mental Health Act 2007 to get the official definition of ‘mentally ill person’ (although the legal act references it because it specifically says refer to the Act for the definition) - in a nutshell, if you fit the definition of ‘mentally ill person’, you can be involuntarily detained for your own safety or the safety of others. It’ll get you sectioned by police or paramedics on the spot, basically (and just to confuse the issue, it’s called being ‘sectioned’ because there are relevant sections of the MH Act that allow police or ambos to detain you and transport you to an appropriate facility against your will, chemically or physically restrained if needed).

What the layperson thinks of as ‘mentally ill person’ vs what the medical/legal fraternity defines it as are actually quite different.

 

[StuBoot]

"32 Persons suffering from mental illness or condition or cognitive impairment"

"that the defendant is (or was at the time of the alleged commission of the offence to which the proceedings relate)🙁i) cognitively impaired, or(ii) suffering from mental illness, or(iii) suffering from a mental condition for which treatment is available in a mental health facilty"
.

Cognitive impairment is when a person has trouble remembering, learning new things, concentrating, or making decisions that affect their everyday life.

By this definition of cognitive impairment he may have a defence
1. I don't remember as..
2. I was learning new things ( a couple of things at once by the sound of it ) and..
3. I was having trouble concentrating
4. I made some bad decisions that ( may now ) affect my everyday life.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

This debate in this thread shows just how much work is still to be done in the area of mental health awareness.

Some strong views expressed above but I'd request people to step back for a moment and accept we don't have any idea what the facts of this particular case may be, nor of why this young man would ask a court to consider dealing with the charge under the mental health laws.

Frankly there have been too many reports in recent years of young players taking their own lives for any footy fan to seriously suggest either a) mental health is probably just a beat-up attempt to avoid the law or b) anyone going public about their mental condition is clearly not fit to play footy and should retreat out of sight until cured.

There is ample research proving that various mental conditions may affect people's decisions. Parliament has legislated that a court is to consider such matters.

 

[Jethro]

@niccipops was spot on, young people who haven’t yet reached full brain maturity do dumb things, this has been the case since time immemorial. Unfortunately social media has changed the landscape in terms of the nature and audience of some of these dumb decisions. Some youths of this age will make their dumb decisions with drugs, some with cars - sadly, in both those cases, a proportion will die as a result of their dumb decisions. Thank god most get an opportunity to learn from their mistakes and move on - which Fainu will (and should) get to do in this instance.

Like I said in an earlier post, he has an immature Frontal Lobe/prefrontal cortex.

His brain has not fully matured yet and he is incapable of making rational decisions at this stage of his brain development.

The brain frontal lobe is the very last part of the brain to develop and mature. It is the part of the brain that makes consequential decisions. It's the part of the brain that weighs different factors, and decides what's right and what's wrong.

Brain development varies with each individual. With most people, brain maturity it is normally around when they reach 25 years of age but for some, it could be earlier and for others it could be later than that.

 

[Ryan]

Like I said in an earlier post, he has an immature Frontal Lobe/prefrontal cortex.

His brain has not fully matured yet and he is incapable of making rational decisions at this stage of his brain development.

The brain frontal lobe is the very last part of the brain to develop and mature. It is the part of the brain that makes consequential decisions. It's the part of the brain that weighs different factors, and decides what's right and what's wrong.

Brain development varies with each individual. With most people, brain maturity it is normally around when they reach 25 years of age but for some, it could be earlier and for others it could be later than that.

My missus says my frontal lobe is in my pants and only wants one thing. Can't say she's wrong.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

My missus says my frontal lobe is in my pants and only wants one thing. Can't say she's wrong.

Lol, you always crack me up you Stud Muffin you!!’

 

[Ryan]

Lol, you always crack me up you Stud Muffin you!!’

Speaking of muffins, the club invited me to the 1st year Members BBQ.
Funny, I've been a member forever.

 

[niccipops]

If it wasn’t for school holiday grandchildren minding I’d be like @niccipops and out there next a campfire and a river oblivious to the world other than when I turned the SAT TV on once a week to watch Manly play.

I sometimes think the modern world with an instant everything is in some ways a backwards step!!

I saw some of nature's best today Mark. Went whale watching on the GC. Besides the whales the best thing to see was several children on the boat just squealing with delight as the whales played.
No phones. No Xboxes. Just a dose of the real world with big waves crashing over the boat, amazing whales and happy people.
*Of course plenty of international visitors getting incredibly seasick out in the wild Pacific. Poor things.

 

[wombatgc]

I saw some of nature's best today Mark. Went whale watching on the GC. Besides the whales the best thing to see was several children on the boat just squealing with delight as the whales played.
No phones. No Xboxes. Just a dose of the real world with big waves crashing over the boat, amazing whales and happy people.
*Of course plenty of international visitors getting incredibly seasick out in the wild Pacific. Poor things.

It was a cracker of a day today on the GC. Glad you enjoyed it. I've been on the whale watching boat a cpl of times when the nieces and nephews come up from Sydney...the experience never gets old.
There all up atm, so we went to the Wax Museum, Ripley's and the beach, no sitting around on an Xbox or the computer. (they don't even argue with me over it anymore....if only they knew how much time I spend on Silvertails!....do as I say kids, not as I do.😛

 

[HoldenV8]

Here is a silly question.

Is there a possibility that the girl in question knew of both the video and it being shared on Snapchat only to have a change of heart later with one of those "omg, what are mum and dad going to say/think if they find out" type moments?

Not saying that is the case, but it wouldn't be the first time something like that has happened. Everything is all good until someone gets an attack of the guilts. I know in my 43+ years on this God forsaken mudball we call Earth I have definitely done things that seemed like a fun or good idea at the time, only to think later....hmmm maybe I shouldn't have done that. Now I haven't done anything like video a sex act and post it online, but I know I have done some pretty dumb things that I regretted later (especially when I was their age). Maybe that was the case with what has happened with Fainu?

 

[yokahontas]

Here is a silly question.

Is there a possibility that the girl in question knew of both the video and it being shared on Snapchat only to have a change of heart later with one of those "omg, what are mum and dad going to say/think if they find out" type moments?

Not saying that is the case, but it wouldn't be the first time something like that has happened. Everything is all good until someone gets an attack of the guilts. I know in my 43+ years on this God forsaken mudball we call Earth I have definitely done things that seemed like a fun or good idea at the time, only to think later....hmmm maybe I shouldn't have done that. Now I haven't done anything like video a sex act and post it online, but I know I have done some pretty dumb things that I regretted later (especially when I was their age). Maybe that was the case with what has happened with Fainu?

I’d say not a stupid question at all - ‘buyers remorse’ seems to be a worsening problem in interpersonal relations these days, there’s a subset of militant feminists who have even spouted the idea publicly that if you consent to something at the time, then change your mind/regret it later, that makes the guy a rapist. Other possibilities are that she knew of the filming, but had asked for it to be deleted and was distressed to find it hadn’t been. I also haven’t seen any information as to who the video was actually sent to - there’s every possibility no third party ever saw it, it was only exchanged between the two of them, and the young lady has gone to police because a) she had no knowledge it was filmed to begin with, or b) she had been aware of the filming and asked for it to be deleted.

I’m so glad I grew up in an era before all this was such an issue! We had crappy old Nokias that were good for a game of Snake and not much else!

 

[Woodsie]

Here is a silly question.

Is there a possibility that the girl in question knew of both the video and it being shared on Snapchat only to have a change of heart later with one of those "omg, what are mum and dad going to say/think if they find out" type moments?

Not saying that is the case, but it wouldn't be the first time something like that has happened. Everything is all good until someone gets an attack of the guilts. I know in my 43+ years on this God forsaken mudball we call Earth I have definitely done things that seemed like a fun or good idea at the time, only to think later....hmmm maybe I shouldn't have done that. Now I haven't done anything like video a sex act and post it online, but I know I have done some pretty dumb things that I regretted later (especially when I was their age). Maybe that was the case with what has happened with Fainu?

V8 old mate ..... you are 100% correct in one thing .... all of us have no idea of the facts .....

...... in fact I have no idea whether the victim was a sweet and innocent 17yo lured from the comforts and conformities of her parents household and ravished with promises of eternal love ...... or whether she was a 45yo transgender cougar named Trevor .....

...

 

[Chip and Chase]

How many people here have seen the contents of an average 19 - 20 year old phone these days ?? Bloody hell - it blows me away with what gets freely shared around by both genders. That doesn't excuse sharing content without consent by any means, but I can see how lines get blurred and mistakes could be made. It's a different world with this generation.

 

[HoldenV8]

How many people here have seen the contents of an average 19 - 20 year old phone these days ?? Bloody hell - it blows me away with what gets freely shared around by both genders. That doesn't excuse sharing content without consent by any means, but I can see how lines get blurred and mistakes could be made. It's a different world with this generation.

The average teen / young adult basically lives their lives on things like Instagram and Snapchat. And not all of it is good clean fun that their parents would approve of. I mean, a friend of mine had her 16 (now 17) year old daughter take down some of her Instagram photos because she was posting pics of herself posing in her underwear. And she was only 16!!!

 

[yokahontas]

The average teen / young adult basically lives their lives on things like Instagram and Snapchat. And not all of it is good clean fun that their parents would approve of. I mean, a friend of mine had her 16 (now 17) year old daughter take down some of her Instagram photos because she was posting pics of herself posing in her underwear. And she was only 16!!!

Yup. And I’ve had a younger sibling hand back a borrowed phone to Mum that obviously hadn’t been wiped as thoroughly as she thought. Not just the odd sus photo or video, some of the text messages were filthy enough!