Dummy half - 3 into 2

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SeaEagleRock8

Sea Eagle Lach
Premium Member
Tipping Member
Let's see how Lachie holds up in games. His injury was quite bad and the way he plays he's always liable to cop a nasty head knock.
If he's fully fit he's our top 9, for this season anyway. As @Dion Johnson mentioned he is a handy kicking option, which the others can't provide (yet anyway). He's shown his courage time and again and stats may not tell the whole story about what he adds in defence.
 

BOZO

Journey Man
Tipping Member
. He's shown his courage time and again and stats may not tell the whole story about what he adds in defence.
Good morning feathered friend . I hope all is well in your nest
There is no doubt that he is Courageous but he is not Crafty
He adds in defense but he is not a dynamic running hooker that can turn a game
The game is Dominated by dynamic players that have a complete game both in defense as well as offence
Looking forward to the day that we have that dominant 9 in our spine
 

Will on the hill

Bencher
Tipping Member
When it comes to Dummy Halves, Simpkin's D is up there with Frog.

Bit of a Squeeze on the screenshot sorry, but Simpkin's Minutes Played far-left near logo and Tackles Made far right column. Trust me when I say efficiency is not an issue (93.5%, with most tackles made of all 9's - bar Lawton who is just in a different league to the established 9s with his positional flexibility)

View attachment 27764

Simpkin's crisp delivery of dummy service is not a measurable stat, so you gotta decide if Frog or Simp have the better service from the ruck - arguably Simpkin straightens our attack more than Frog and GCKT adds a bit more uncertainty than Frog does, which might make the defensive line less structured.

Neither Frog nor Jake run it from the ruck a lot, it's obviously a tactical choice from the Coach - and given our speed out wide the alternative of shifting to the edges fast is seen as viable. It has paid off this year you could argue. Gordie is a little terrier though, and has easily the best proportional return on dummy runs, post-contact metres and average metres in general.

Comparing our 9 options based on running metres:
  • Simpkin 92m over 6 games
  • GCKT 142m over 7 games, usually < 30mins played (Rooters game 50+ minutes played, arugably his best)
  • Croker 121m over 9 games - yet Croker is the only 9 to have scored tries
So GCKT runs it the most, Simpkin is the mid point, and Croker runs the least but has the most meat-pies.

PS Lawton tops them all, in all stats bar tries scored. He has played every game this year in 4 different positions. Seibold has unlocked Lawton's utility in 2024. But, given his minutes/position is inconsitent week to week, it is hard to judge in a side-by-side - other than to say Lawton has been epic this year without injuries getting in the way. He will arguably be a bigger loss next year than Dylan Walker to Warriors was from our 14 a couple of years ago, IMO.

Tackle efficiency:
  • Simpkin 93.5% on 302 tackled made
  • Croker 89.5% on 272 tackles
  • Gordie 92.7% on 101 tackles
  • (Lawton 94.3% on 462 tackles...)
So what does that leave us with?
  • Gordie runs the most and averages the most metres in limited minutes played per-game - arguably he is the most effective attacking 9 in the way he is used off the bench as an impact 9
  • Simpkin has seemingly the highest workrate on the the defensive front when playing big minutes, and even out-tackles JakeT with a decent efficiency (not to be sniffed at given the minutes and engine of NSW Captain and 23min-per-SOO-game JakeT!), with an exception in the Rooters game where Simpkin seemed to miss a fair few, and GCKT played an unusally larger amt of minutes, possibly due to Simpkin having an off night
  • Frog is comparable to both in different ways; inferior to Simpkin Defensively on the limited scope of 2024, and offers less offensive capability than GCKT in 2024, but has unmeasurable leadership impact the younger guys don't and has managed to score tries in the early season at critical times (Rabbits/Rooters), so his attacking decisions result in points at critical times of the game
So if you think baseline stats are everything, arguably Simpkin starts and Gordie is our 14. Unless you feel Simpkin was over-delivering in his first 5 games (new club, statement to make etc), and the Roosters game is a better reflection of where Simpkin is - in which case Frog is a no-brainer start, with Gordie as most viable 14.

Stats don't take into account the quality of Simpkin's service from Dummy-half, the momentum of Gordie's runs from dummy at the time he chooses to make them, or the tenacity, heart and leadership-capable motivation of Croker's input on overall team performance. Some invisible stats that boil down to perception, momentum and untrackable metrics.

Regardless, It's not a bad position to be in from a purely team-tactical position:
  • Croker needs to make a return from an awkward injury at some point, and this weekend is the perfect scenario to do it.
  • He was injured in the Canberrra game, and returns against them - close the loop
  • He is a product of the Canberra system with a famous Raiders name, and is in a position to contribute to the (potential) end of the Raider's season
  • We get the return of one of our team leaders at a critical time of the year, where there are no more rep-related interruptions
  • If it doesn't work out, we have contingencies in the 2 other listed 9's, and an exceptional Lawton as an alternative option
  • We have been crying out for 9's since the Manase/Api dream-team and now we arguably have 4 reasonable options to choose from
  • Even if we lose to the Raiders this week, we are still in the 8 as the teams in 9th are 3pts behind us - so we can't drop out of the 8 regardless, and despite our away record not being stellar this year we have only Bulldogs/Tigers away rest of the season - we surely win against the Tigers given we have 3/4 of their previous squad in our team now, and Bulldogs (followed by Sharks at home to finish season) is at least a good taste of Finals footy in both a Away/Home format
It's the right time to bring Croker back. The upside of an impactful return outweigh the downside in that it gives us options in a position we have sucked in since Manase/Api. If Croker kills it and we put the Raiders away at home, we are all but assured of Finals with the return of a key spine player we have been missing for 3-4 months.

Optimally, Croker returns as our 1st-pick 9 with Simpkin/Gordie interchangeable depending on the opposition, which inspires some competition between the youngsters. This assumes however that Lawton is already either a starting Backrower, or on the bench as a Fwd interchange - else he is better bang for buck than any of them.
Fantastic write up mate. One thing I've noticed is while Simpkin makes his tackles he rarely wins the contact, this is where Froggy is far superior.

Here's a few stats that paint a clearer picture than tackle efficiency alone.

Stat / Froggy / Simpkin
Min / 517 / 442
Ineffective tackles / 11 / 18
1 on 1 tackles / 22 / 10
Try causes / 1 / 3
Line break causes / 2 / 5
 

AlxFromNthNarra

Rarely does big posts worth reading....maybe
Solid statistical analysis mate, thanks for putting in the work. Whilst everyone can see our attack has been more direct of late with slicker dummy half service from Simpkin, our defence has also improved, despite some proclaiming we are missing Croker's presence here - your stats are actually telling: Simpkin is more than up to the task defensively.

I feel at this point necessary to say that Croker is an exceptional clubman with strong character, and high quality leadership ability. We must ask him to evolve again however. He can still do what he does best in the defensive side of things, but with ball in hand, he shouldn't have to follow the ruck as our dummy half. Instead, simplify his game by taking some hit ups off quick play-the-balls, and by serving as a link man when Brown is not on the park.

Our hooking rotation should be a Simpkin, Chan Kum Tong combo. I think in time, this could develop quite nicely
Good assessment. I find it interesting that Simpkin gets the week off and GCKT keeps the bench warm.

Suggests to me either:
(a) Simpkin's drop in performance for the Roosters game didn't go unnoticed by coach; and
(b) Possibly Simpkin/Croker are seen as the interchangeable options with Gordie as the point of difference.

Croker's un-measurable qualities are indeed an element of his value proposition which is easily overlooked - no NRL stat for Influence, leadership, Training-related motivation or 'lead by example' after all.

While I agree GCKT/Simpkin are the future, the now is demanding a Croker-esque contribution. He does remind me of Ballin in 2011. Let's hope the results cards fall in a similar way.
 

AlxFromNthNarra

Rarely does big posts worth reading....maybe
Fantastic write up mate. One thing I've noticed is while Simpkin makes his tackles he rarely wins the contact, this is where Froggy is far superior.

Here's a few stats that paint a clearer picture than tackle efficiency alone.

Stat / Froggy / Simpkin
Min / 517 / 442
Ineffective tackles / 11 / 18
1 on 1 tackles / 22 / 10
Try causes / 1 / 3
Line break causes / 2 / 5
Thanks for the great stats insight! Good pickup on the tackle effectiveness :)

Frog has evolved his play from the previous 6 to the modern-day 9 really well. Simpkin has the benefit of time/youth, and has those qualities of well-drilled service with a low rate of error.

For me, it boils down to instinct.

9's in today's game need to be able to instinctively take the right option given the canvass in front of them at a point in time. Cam Smith was the best at it, and was able to pocket the Ref over the game to make rule-bending par for course. Genius.

Other 9's have found ways to bend the game to their strengths (think Api, Grant, Mahoney, Hunt, Egan).

I actually think Gordie has the better instinct as a 9 compared to others, based on when to take on the line and target tiring/offside defenders, but he hasn't had the length of time on-field to really stamp his style on a larger segment of the game.

Simpkin is a fantastic service-oriented 9 who will only get better with experience, and when he learns to back himself on the dummy runs over the coach-led 'service delivery' model Seibs has him filling now he might become a fierce metre-eater. He's young at the moment and maybe unwilling to shun the coach's saftey valve - but he may grow into a more bold dummy runner in future, with more eyes-up opportunism as he learns how to target a tiring or inattentive defensive structure. Gordie does it well but Simpkin has that same quality if he chooses to employ it.

Ultimately, We are well placed for future. Lawton is having an x-factor year unburdened by injury/suspension for the first time....in like ever. I hope he continues his form...... but not for too long seeing he's a Cowboy next year. Maybe he kills it up until the game against Manly in '25 :D But he does also provide a cushion to the youngters - Simpkin got found out by the Rooters, but when Lawton can step in and share the load, and Gordie is sitting on the bench, you can hedge your bets. We won't have that same luxury in '25.
 

HoldenV8

Journey Man
Personally I wouldn't mind seeing Froggy transitioning into a ball playing lock (he has the skills and we know his defensive game can handle the middle), Jake Trbojevic moved to the front row with Simpkin and Gordon playing the 9 and 14 roles.
 

349

Member
I read a season or two back that DCE was first in all the fitness test and Crocker was second. To be the first you only have to be better than the second so you can see Crocker driving the standards and his skill is not naturally given it is through hard work. In my opinion he has a future after footy for Manly in coaching in both the halves and hooker roles.
 

maxta

First Grader
Premium Member
Unless Simpkin starred in a Win against Roosters, I feel Seibs was always gunna pick Croker straight up when fit....get on Gordie for a try off the bench tomorrow, will come on and scare their middles once they are a bit tired and Croker has done the heavy lifting, these early exchanges will be super tough and if we can lock horns and stay in the contest, the quick X factors should get us home.....
 

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