Dogs and the cap!

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Thanks for typing slowly because now I understand.

Manly play at a council owned oval.

I play Satuday league in a **** comp on the Central Coast and my oval is owned by the council.

Thanks.
 
If you did a hybrid team of Manly / Dogs, then the only Dogs likely to make our top 17 would be
Morris (as winger),
Tolman
Graham
maybe Pritchard on his good days.

Barba's in good form, but I'd have Snake any day of the week, maybe a bench spot but I'd be inclined not to. Maybe Inu on the other wing seeing as he is in a rare purple patch where everything is falling his way.

So I still think our roster craps all over theirs. If they are over the cap with that side then we need to be very worried, either that or they have a useless accountant.
 
The Manly roster craps all over the Dogs this is true.

But the Dogs sit top of the table and Manly are fighting for top 4. So although their roster is not as good, they are playing well as a team of no names.
 
After they buy Pearce, upgrade Barba to $600,000 , Reynolds to $500,000, increase Inu & Perritts contracts times 5 all is still good??
Its no good nominating Manlys 6-7 highest earners & pretending they stack up evenly - it includes the WHOLE SQUAD including a Dogs NSW cup side worth way more than any other.
 
filto6 said:
Thanks for typing slowly because now I understand.

Manly play at a council owned oval.

I play Satuday league in a s**t comp on the Central Coast and my oval is owned by the council.

Thanks.

Manly played at ANZ Stadium on 5/10/08 and 25/9/11

I thought that was the Dogs home ground? Why weren't the Dogs playing on those days?

KTHXBI
 
Stevo said:
This thread is pointless and baseless. As if there are rorts going on. It would be near impossible for it to happen on a massive and deliberate scale. And why would a club want to do it? Where is Brian Waldron now? Lucky to be a free man is for sure. It's career threatening for players and career destroying for businessmen.

There are no rorts going on? I bet that there are! And to those people comparing other teams to Manly's roster, well, I think they have earned the right to not be the subject of suspicion. Manly have NEVER been caught, even on a small scale, for salary cap breaches, so we are clean...Some teams have a history and are rotten to the core.

In the NRL there is no punishment for breaching the cap on a large scale. The Bulldogs won a premiership the following year and even added Andrew Ryan to their roster. Not bad, huh? And the Storm players and club still consider their premierships legit. The fact that they were competing so strongly for a premiership the year after is a joke. It took Carlton in the AFL 10 years to recover after their breach. I bet a club won't do this again in the AFL!! This is what needs to happen to clubs in the NRL. If a club so flagrantly breaches the cap as the Bulldogs and Storm did, they need to be hobbled and punished for a very long time. Apart from one year of misery, I don't think the penalty is much of a deterent. It is almost worth the risk I feel...


filto6 said:
Thanks for typing slowly because now I understand.

Manly play at a council owned oval.

I play Satuday league in a s**t comp on the Central Coast and my oval is owned by the council.

Thanks.

Come again?


filto6 said:
The Manly roster craps all over the Dogs this is true.

But the Dogs sit top of the table and Manly are fighting for top 4. So although their roster is not as good, they are playing well as a team of no names.

Remember, we need to consider T-Rex a Dogs player now...
 
Napper said:
voicefromthehill said:
, hell we even have some of our posters saying all of our players are in the top 5 in their position

What's so shocking about that?^^

Besides our wingers and going off T-rex's form 12 months ago it's true.

Nothing mate, but selective quoting also removes the thrust of my point.

Fact is we believe that we have some of the best players, but then argue they accept unders to play for us. However when we see the bulldogs (or any other team for that matter) putting a good roster together we cry SALARY CAP BREACH. We refuse to believe that they could do this in a legit manner, or that they would take unders to play with undoubtedly the best coach going around at the moment, or for the opportunity to play in a team that will win a comp soon. We accept all the reasons Manly are under the cap, but reject it for others - in my opinion it is rank stupidity to do that.
 
I do believe that once a cheat, always a cheat. If they didn't have history of a breach on such a large scale I probably wouldn't be so concerned. I will state it again, Manly have never, to my knowledge, been fined for a breach, even on a small scale and if they have,can I have some proof...
 
MK Eagle said:
After they buy Pearce, upgrade Barba to $600,000 , Reynolds to $500,000, increase Inu & Perritts contracts times 5 all is still good??
Its no good nominating Manlys 6-7 highest earners & pretending they stack up evenly - it includes the WHOLE SQUAD including a Dogs NSW cup side worth way more than any other.

OK I get it now - they are hypothetically over the cap


Moops said:
I do believe that once a cheat, always a cheat. If they didn't have history of a breach on such a large scale I probably wouldn't be so concerned. I will state it again, Manly have never, to my knowledge, been fined for a breach, even on a small scale and if they have,can I have some proof...

Likewise have we proof of the dogs being over? Beyond supposition and some over estimated player valuations. As I said in my first post, I will go the innocent until guilty path - but will lead the lynch mob if they are guilty of cheating my game
 
MK Eagle said:
After they buy Pearce, upgrade Barba to $600,000 , Reynolds to $500,000, increase Inu & Perritts contracts times 5 all is still good??
Its no good nominating Manlys 6-7 highest earners & pretending they stack up evenly - it includes the WHOLE SQUAD including a Dogs NSW cup side worth way more than any other.

So Bulldogs teams in the future will be rorting the cap but the current team isn't?? And the future teams will only be rorting the cap if we boost all the people you mentioned?
ok.......

But your Manly team is definitely under the cap?
You all say how you have the best roster in the competition but you all believe they play for nothing???

You guys seriously need to just concentrate on your own team, you have a great team to follow and you should leave other teams that are starting to have success alone.
The Bulldogs have a great coach who funny enough built the foundation at Manly for the modern success.

I can understand why Bulldogs get a bad rap with all the racists and the old rape and salary cap scandals, but Manly fans really are the leagues biggest sooks.
 
voicefromthehill said:
MK Eagle said:
After they buy Pearce, upgrade Barba to $600,000 , Reynolds to $500,000, increase Inu & Perritts contracts times 5 all is still good??
Its no good nominating Manlys 6-7 highest earners & pretending they stack up evenly - it includes the WHOLE SQUAD including a Dogs NSW cup side worth way more than any other.

OK I get it now - they are hypothetically over the cap


Moops said:
I do believe that once a cheat, always a cheat. If they didn't have history of a breach on such a large scale I probably wouldn't be so concerned. I will state it again, Manly have never, to my knowledge, been fined for a breach, even on a small scale and if they have,can I have some proof...

Likewise have we proof of the dogs being over? Beyond supposition and some over estimated player valuations. As I said in my first post, I will go the innocent until guilty path - but will lead the lynch mob if they are guilty of cheating my game



I agree with you to a degree. However Des only went public about his move to the Dogs after the GF. So does that mean the previous roster which is the same roster he inherited plus 5 mid season additions were signed for less because they somehow knew that Des was going to be coach? T Rex certainly didn';t sign for love did he. A lot of the roster Hasler inherited were paid big money because the Dogs were a sh1t brand and a useless club performance wise......sounds a bit like Parra hey eg way overs for Hodgkinson(which Des was filthy about)

Somehow though they are under enough to replace injured players with mid season signings even at $50 000 this year it still equates to a quarter of a million dollars. I'm not claiming they are def over, but at the same time I can see why people are scratching their heads.
Des also made the statement when he went their that he couldn't undestand why so many players were signed to contracts over $100 000. So which is it? Did Morris leave the Dragons and playing with his brother because he saw a premiership coming out bankstown way? No he left for $$$ and plenty of them. Same as Pritchard, same as Halatau, same as Stagg, Ennis, Tolman and co.


Storm were left scratching their heads at the time of the Tolman signing because they claimed he was being paid the equivalent of a SOO fwd. Ben Hannant took a paycut on his way out the door and back to the Broncos
 
filto6 said:
Thanks for typing slowly because now I understand.

Manly play at a council owned oval.

I play Satuday league in a s**t comp on the Central Coast and my oval is owned by the council.

Thanks.

Only one club owns the ground they play on. That being Cronulla and by and large has been a weight around their necks for decades. Their reserve grade team cannot afford to play their home games at Endeavour/Ronson/Caltex or whatever it is called now and have to play at Henson. The Club will not open the ground for them.
 
@Kevinward777 - I see where you are coming from now, and how we have interpreted things differently. You are looking at the signings of the dogs over the last few years in conjunction with this year, I was not - but we can't discount front/back ended contracts. Nonetheless I still do not believe that they are over, yes they have some excellent players but I still believe that many have blossomed under Des and they are not on big $, time will tell I guess.
 
I am guessing a shed load of non sponsor third party deals from chop shops in lakemba looking to launder some cash. They are not breaking the cap but they would be getting great creative use of third party deals. For sure!
 
voicefromthehill said:
@Kevinward777 - I see where you are coming from now, and how we have interpreted things differently. You are looking at the signings of the dogs over the last few years in conjunction with this year, I was not - but we can't discount front/back ended contracts. Nonetheless I still do not believe that they are over, yes they have some excellent players but I still believe that many have blossomed under Des and they are not on big $, time will tell I guess.

Agreed.
 
filto6 said:
MK Eagle said:
After they buy Pearce, upgrade Barba to $600,000 , Reynolds to $500,000, increase Inu & Perritts contracts times 5 all is still good??
Its no good nominating Manlys 6-7 highest earners & pretending they stack up evenly - it includes the WHOLE SQUAD including a Dogs NSW cup side worth way more than any other.

So Bulldogs teams in the future will be rorting the cap but the current team isn't?? And the future teams will only be rorting the cap if we boost all the people you mentioned?
ok.......

But your Manly team is definitely under the cap?
You all say how you have the best roster in the competition but you all believe they play for nothing???

You guys seriously need to just concentrate on your own team, you have a great team to follow and you should leave other teams that are starting to have success alone.
The Bulldogs have a great coach who funny enough built the foundation at Manly for the modern success.

I can understand why Bulldogs get a bad rap with all the racists and the old rape and salary cap scandals, but Manly fans really are the leagues biggest sooks.


From the NRL website pal:

Question

How can some clubs have so many elite players and still be under the Salary Cap while other clubs at the bottom of the table seem to be just under the Salary Cap?

Answer

The reality is all clubs spend the Salary Cap but not all are successful on the field. Someone has to come last and someone has to win, regardless of what they spend.

Some clubs will attract players on the basis of what the club can offer a player’s career rather than just money. Other clubs may need to spend more money to attract the same level of player


filto6 said:
MK Eagle said:
After they buy Pearce, upgrade Barba to $600,000 , Reynolds to $500,000, increase Inu & Perritts contracts times 5 all is still good??
Its no good nominating Manlys 6-7 highest earners & pretending they stack up evenly - it includes the WHOLE SQUAD including a Dogs NSW cup side worth way more than any other.

So Bulldogs teams in the future will be rorting the cap but the current team isn't?? And the future teams will only be rorting the cap if we boost all the people you mentioned?
ok.......

But your Manly team is definitely under the cap?
You all say how you have the best roster in the competition but you all believe they play for nothing???

You guys seriously need to just concentrate on your own team, you have a great team to follow and you should leave other teams that are starting to have success alone.
The Bulldogs have a great coach who funny enough built the foundation at Manly for the modern success.

I can understand why Bulldogs get a bad rap with all the racists and the old rape and salary cap scandals, but Manly fans really are the leagues biggest sooks.

To get a good understanding on why Bulldogs get a bad wrap I have highlighted some news articles for you to enjoy over the weekend:

2006
The Canterbury Bulldogs Rugby League Club is under new pressure over crowd behaviour. Supporters were involved in a brawl during Friday night's National Rugby League clash with Wests Tigers at the Olympic Stadium in Sydney. Police have said that 19 people were ejected from the ground, including a Bulldogs fan involved in the fight. There were also reports of violent incidents outside the ground after the game. Bulldogs president Malcolm Noad has told the Nine Network that the club will take action against violent supporters.

2009
Bulldogs supporters allegedly used text messages to call for reinforcements as police investigated incidents of crowd violence that left two security guards bloodied and bruised during Monday night's game against South Sydney at ANZ Stadium. NSW police confirmed yesterday they were looking into two incidents after a 17-year-old pregnant woman was also knocked to the ground while attempting to pass another scuffle following the match.

2009
Bulldogs supporters have turned on one another with death threats, sexual innuendo, racism, prank calls and talk of gang bashings. Two sets of fans on rival Bulldogs websites have become embroiled in a row that threatens to cause a racial divide among club fans, Sydney's The Daily Telegraph reports. Members of The Kennel fan website are angered a rival website, BluenWhite, has been set-up. BluenWhite bloggers claim to have been terrorised on forums by The Kennel members and told they would be "mugged and bashed'' if they attend any Bulldog matches. Bulldogs chief executive Todd Greenberg described the war as "childish''. BluenWhite member Matthew Attard, 18, received a death threat and five prank calls yesterday for setting up the new club in reponse to racism on The Kennel.

2009
Supporters of the Bulldogs rugby league team went ''berserk'', vandalising a CityRail train after their team won a match on Monday night, a leaked security report reveals. CityRail has confirmed the train, operating between Olympic Park and Lidcombe stations, was attacked but declined to blame Canterbury supporters directly for the damage. ''RailCorp can confirm that on the bump-out from the Bulldogs-Roosters match last night one of its trains was found to be vandalised with a number of windows missing,'' a RailCorp spokesman said yesterday. ''The particular train which was vandalised is an older set and not fitted with CCTV. Those responsible for this damage have not been identified.'' But an official report from the shift manager's log at the Rail Management Centre identified club supporters as the offenders. It said a RailCorp staff member who had been at the game with his daughter and a friend had boarded the train crowded with supporters leaving Olympic Park. ''The employee reported that they had not been threatened but [he] was concerned for their safety, as the Bulldogs supporters in Car 3981 were going berserk and smashing all the light fittings and kicking out the windows, even though the Bulldogs had won the match by a convincing margin.'' A RailCorp source said rail staff had worked hard to contain the melee but were overwhelmed, although no one was injured. The report said that as the train stalled outside Lidcombe station: ''Bulldogs supporters began jumping from the train and on to the tracks.'' Fans lit paper fires inside the carriages. The police also received a 000 call about 9.15pm on Monday reporting a fire on a train carrying fans between Belmore and Campsie. The Bulldogs chief executive, Todd Greenberg, said he was unaware of trouble involving club supporters on Monday but promised to investigate. ''We will take the strongest possible stance against anyone who behaves irresponsibly either on the way to the game, at the game or on the way home.'' Over the past decade, Bulldog fans have been identified as being involved in riots and damage to trains, especially after matches.

2010
Police attending the NRL match last night at ANZ Stadium at Homebush arrested six people after a brawl at the match. The Parramatta Eels and Canterbury Bulldogs match at Homebush commenced shortly after 7.40pm and had a number of police and security officers at the venue. With approximately ten minutes of the second half remaining a brawl occurred at the northern end of the ground. As a result of the altercation six people were arrested and four of those issued with criminal infringement notices for offensive behaviour. In all 15 people were ejected from the ground during the match. The police operation continued outside the ground as the crowd moved towards the railway station at the completion of the game. Police made a further arrest for offensive language and two juveniles were detained for malicious damage. Two officers reported being injured as a result of the operation with one suffering a dislocated thumb and the second received leg injuries from the brawl. Senior police have spoken to the NRL and inquiries into the incidents continue with the issuing of banning notices to be considered.
 
voicefromthehill said:
Napper said:
voicefromthehill said:
, hell we even have some of our posters saying all of our players are in the top 5 in their position

What's so shocking about that?^^

Besides our wingers and going off T-rex's form 12 months ago it's true.

Nothing mate, but selective quoting also removes the thrust of my point.

Fact is we believe that we have some of the best players, but then argue they accept unders to play for us. However when we see the bulldogs (or any other team for that matter) putting a good roster together we cry SALARY CAP BREACH. We refuse to believe that they could do this in a legit manner, or that they would take unders to play with undoubtedly the best coach going around at the moment, or for the opportunity to play in a team that will win a comp soon. We accept all the reasons Manly are under the cap, but reject it for others - in my opinion it is rank stupidity to do that.
Its based on fact VFTH.
THIS Manly team has based its success on maintaining a happy home & if you look at the roster over the past 4-5 years you will notice close to the same team.
THIS is where I base my theory for right or wrong that these players love the place & are prepared to show some old fashion loyalty that seems dorment within the cultures of other NRL sides.
Recent examples would be Foz, Matai & Snake(fingers crossed) who could have got way more elsewhere like T Rex did.
Look at Parra ,Penrith, Raiders all having to pay mass overs due to a lack of success on the field.
The team in question - DOGS - are now having a great season & this WILL help in player contract negotiations because these current players will enjoy being at a successful club. They still have 4-5 years to catch up to somewhere near Manlys culture but IF they are balancing the books fairly, as some believe, it will be an even better opportunity to sign the players for FAR less than other clubs will offer them in coming years.
Unfortunately the Dogs have not had this luxury as shown in the Hodgkinson contract & the current squad has been built on big dollars apart from mid season signings who will be slightly upgraded in 2013.
I see it pure ignorance to think having a successful side that has stuck together like a band of brothers, does not help retain them for far less money.
 
Shubert is asleep at the wheel unfortunately. The NRL needs to get outside auditors on the job. The in-house bunch are just not that competent. The cap rorters are exposed, not through his due diligence, but generally through a disgruntled whistleblower. Until the NRL get independent auditors then nothing will change and there will always be innuendo and rumor.
 
Been a rumour for about a month now that they are going to pay out one player on good money who is not off contract.

Also I dont believe Romelo has resigned yet. Last I heard he was favoured to go back to Sharks.
 
Team P W L PD Pts
3 3 0 48 6
3 2 1 45 4
3 2 1 28 4
3 2 1 22 4
3 2 1 15 4
3 2 1 14 4
2 1 1 13 4
3 2 1 10 4
2 1 1 6 4
3 2 1 -3 4
3 1 2 0 2
3 1 2 -5 2
3 1 2 -15 2
3 1 2 -22 2
3 1 2 -36 2
2 0 2 -56 2
3 0 3 -64 0
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