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Des's Dogs BA's Eels vs Manly

Discussion in 'Rugby League Forum' started by Alby, Aug 24, 2015.

  1. Alby

    Alby Active Member

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    Just wanted to run a statistic on Manly's recent ex-coaches current teams vs Manly.

    Des's Dogs : 7 wins 3 losses
    BA's Eels: 3 wins 1 loss

    I feel this has become a bit of a concern. Not only is the moral defeat hard to swallow, but those defeats have come at crucial times:

    2012 Semi final loss against Dogs.
    2014 finals (do or die) loss against Dogs
    2015 yesterday's (Must Win) round against the Eels.

    Do Des and BA have our number because they know our structures very well... our flaws... our targets?

    Was our coach being outcoached, or our players being outplayed? Or just sheer coincidence or plain bad luck?

    As a Manly fan, these are the losses that hurt most, so hoping TB might get one up 'em next season.
     
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    • JenEagle

      JenEagle Well-Known Member

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      Yep these losses really really hurt.

      I have noticed this as well. Both Des and BA just have the wood on us big time.

      The dogs just get us every time and particularly at crucial times as you mentioned.
       
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      • Rex

        Rex Well-Known Member

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        Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
         
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        • qldeagle

          qldeagle Well-Known Member

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          Barrett will ignite a whole different style of play and game plan so they won't be able to read us from next year.
           
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          • Mark from Brisbane

            Mark from Brisbane Living the dream Premium Member

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            Yep but sadly true, figures don't lie.

            I said as much in the game thread , the Dalai will know exactly what we will do and when!!

            It's one benefit TB will have in 2016
             
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            • tookey

              tookey Well-Known Member 2017 Tipping Competitor

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              Maybe we will have no game plan next year
               
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              • Snake

                Snake Doing The Eagle Rock!

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                This is really silly to be crediting Arthur on shutting down our attack. I can read what we are going do, so why couldn't every other coach in the game?

                It's not rocket science what teams do in attack these days, especially the sweep play around the back. Stopping it is made difficult when the defence is pressed by losing the ruck. That didn't happen yesterday, and that is why our attack was nullified, not because Arthur stood around at training two years ago.
                 
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                • Alby

                  Alby Active Member

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                  Either way, our record isn't good against these teams - could it be coincidental and we just don't seem to play our best against them?
                   
                • Rex

                  Rex Well-Known Member

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                  I just tossed a coin. The first four tosses were 2 heads, 2 tails (HTTH) as expected

                  The next 7 tosses were 6 tails, 1 head (TTHTTTT).

                  Does that prove my coin favoured tails?

                  Try the experiment yourself.
                   
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                  • Snake

                    Snake Doing The Eagle Rock!

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                    Well the Dogs play a style that has never sat well with the Eagles, and we all know what a great coach Des is....they have also been to two GF's under Hasler's reign so that's fair form. I think playing a good side has more to do with us losing than Hasler knowing our strengths...although I think it's more likely to be the case here, than with Arthur.

                    We were flat yesterday (and against Canberra the week before as Toovey said) and Arthur was not responsible for that. We got the Eels in Rd.1 when they were full of confidence and we were in turmoil. There are just far too many variables to put it down to the opposition coach. Especially someone of Arthur's ilk, who is a pill of the highest order.
                     
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                    • sheridanstand78

                      sheridanstand78 Well-Known Member

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                      It is really annoying that we have lost our last 7 games against the worms and dirty dogs combined. They are the 2 games that you want Manly to do well in and of late we come up short when it comes to composure, we lose so many close games to the dogs especially. that really is gut wrenching.

                      Des is a quality coach and they just know how to edge games, Arthur is just rubbing our noses in it and really in hindsight it was a massive error ever bringing him into our club.
                       
                    • maxta

                      maxta Well-Known Member 2017 Tipping Competitor

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                      The Dogs have troubled us simply due to forward power, nothing more, nothing less.
                      The current Manly team can turn up with a higher energy level than some packs & break even, allowing the backs to win the game....but the Dogs strength has unfortunately been our weakness...can't comment on BA other than to say he somehow gets them up for the Manly games....if they played every game like the 2 against us they would be in the 8.
                      Truth is, we went out on Sunday thinking about winning by a margin before simply getting the 2 points & in the conditions, against a willing team with bigger aggressive forwards- it didn't happen.
                       
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                      • SeaEagleRock8

                        SeaEagleRock8 Sea Eagle Lach Staff Member Premium Member 2017 Tipping Competitor

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                        Buderus just showed he is a superior coach to Bellamy.
                        (Unless there was some other explanation)
                         
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                        • Alby

                          Alby Active Member

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                          If Buderus builds a decent win record against Melbourne, you could say he may have the wood on Bellamy - but that doesn't necessarily make him a better coach.
                           
                        • Mark from Brisbane

                          Mark from Brisbane Living the dream Premium Member

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                          Say what you like , but our team during the 2V era has not performed v those two sides.

                          The fact that their coaches would know most of our key players back to front wouldn't have anything to do with it, would it ?
                           
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                          • Fluffy

                            Fluffy Well-Known Member

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                            Insider knowledge helps a lot

                            There is a reason insider trading is banned, too much of an unfair advantage.
                             
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                            • Ryan

                              Ryan Well-Known Member

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                              Snake, get what your saying mate, but I respectfully disagree. When Des was here, I saw our play change a number of times, and that transitioned to his move to The Bulldogs.

                              At one stage, when Orford was here we had a very flat attack, and really fast dummy half movements (when Monaghan / Le'Strange were here). Des also carried a utility at that stage.

                              Then, we went to a deep attack, with those sweeping behind the forward runner passes, that we are still now seeing under Tooves.

                              Des then had his forwards at The Bulldogs playing the ball before the defensive line, and there was a lot of second phase play.

                              Now, his team is really no nonsense, in behind the ruck up the middle play (which suits his big bopper's perfectly).

                              I still think our play style hasn't changed since Des.

                              I heard The Roosters coach one time this year suggesting his team lost, because they played 2014 football, and it was 2015. That's how fast the game changes. You need an innovative coach that is one step ahead of the opposition.

                              I thought our defensive structures in a team that had Radradra in it was flawed on the weekend. I thought our game plan was poor. If it were once or twice that we played dry weather footy in the rain, fine - but we did it the whole game, and everyone was guilty, even the fan favorites.

                              Look at how Des has his forwards motivated every game. James Graham is a beast - so passionate. Ours are very robot like. Yeah, they do a job, but you don't see the anger, aggression, passion that we need.

                              I'm very, very unhappy with the way the tall brass treated Toovey, but maybe a change is what we need? I read that Barrett was the brains behind the innovation at Penrith - and I also see no coincidence that they have dropped off since he left.

                              I'm so, so happy that we have avoided the wooden spoon. I love that fact, and it's something I reiterate to heaps of people. But for the first time in a decade, we are going to miss the finals. We've had worse injury runs than this in previous years - so I'm also bitterly disappointed.
                               
                            • Loobs

                              Loobs I am not really Scott Penn Premium Member

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                              So the coaching version of this:

                              I think that, a) you have an act, and that, b) not having an act is your act.

                              -- Linda in Singles
                               
                            • Ryan

                              Ryan Well-Known Member

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                              Or a motivator, like this :)
                               
                            • The Who

                              The Who Well-Known Member

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                              How about an oldie but a goodie: Play what's in front of you.
                              I hate the cliche "We didn't stick to our game plan". All current coaches seem to have that same plan, it's just one team executes it better on the day (although I'm not sure our team had a clue how to play wet weather football last Sunday). So, I'm looking forward to a new generation of coaches (potentially Barrett; potentially the Walker Brothers) bringing something different to our sport.
                               
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