[Resurrected] DCE is the worst halfback in the NRL

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Bearfax

Grizzly old fart
Seems a lot of the comments are based on emotional responses, perspectives. But does that give an honest representation of the players. I also like Foran. He's a tough no nonsense player, gives his all. He reminds me a little of Ian Martin who played 5/8 for Manly during their halcyon days of the early 70s. He didn't win you games but he serviced a super backline of Fulton. Branigan, Irvine, Eadie. Some say Foran was prepared to take unders to come back to Manly, and discuss him in relation to the Watmough/Glenn Stewart voluntary pay cut issue. That also involved DCE and his big pay. Bit of revisionist history though and seems DCE gets hit time and again over the pay issue, which I think is part of the apparent, shall I say, less enamoring elements linked to the half back.

The reality is more likely that certain established players didn't like DCE's cockiness. He is outspoken which is why he is head of the Players Union. He's not just clever on the football field, he's also clever. I suspect he got some older Manly players and Qld state players noses out of joint. The Titan's issue exacerbated that tension. As I observe it though, DCE has always given his heart and soul to the team he plays for. When he moved to the Titans it was obvious his heart was with Manly, and that's why he was prepared to cop the s..t and back out of the lucrative Titan's deal.

Now its easy to overlook the fact that Foran left Manly hanging until DCE left before signing with the Eels, also on a very lucrative pay packet. My only issue with this was the fact that he left Manly hanging until DCE signed elsewhere. Got no issues with his decision only the delay that then caused Manly to pay overs for DCE to get him back. Loyalty? Easy also to forget Foran, partly through injury issues it seems, was shown the door from three clubs, Parramatta, Auckland and Canterbury. He was not being chased and his signing with Manly was more Hasler's desire to have him along and a bit of mate ship I suspect. It gave Foran a chance to rebuild his credibility. And he performed admirably at Manly, but I'm afraid he was a shadow of what he had been and no way in the class of DCE.

To me DCE gives his all. We might not like his cockiness ad we might be negatively influenced by the media rubbish, and continue to spew over the pay issue, which I suspect colours many people's perspective, but to me he is one of the best and most loyal players we've had
 

Disco

First Grader
Premium Member
Unpopular opinion.

Foran is a bit overated on the whole.

Great player but not as great as is often made out IMO.

Hugely benefits from the fact he puts his body on the line every game.

Fans are drawn to the tough as teak personas.




Okay....here we go.
 

jbb/james

First Grader
Premium Member
Tipping Member
Unpopular opinion.

Foran is a bit overated on the whole.

Great player but not as great as is often made out IMO.

Hugely benefits from the fact he puts his body on the line every game.

Fans are drawn to the tough as teak personas.




Okay....here we go.
Foran has been on 3 or 400k for 3 seasons. Hard to see how he isnt great value.

His second year in the second coming he outplayed DCE easily , qld and aussie half. if DCE had a ratchet clause in his contract he would of been on 4 times fozs contract due to big increases in the cap

I can never recall manly fans justifying forans position because of his form for the kiwis.

True , Foran was also part of something where together they were stronger than the individual parts. Thats a team but what was his impact. Clearly made T Rex, mark horo world beaters while oku and sirro look anything but outside the main man

But in a full contact sport its strange that some see using the body to full effect to improve the team as being a strange tactic , and those that dont are fulfilling there potential. Imagine choosing props like that

Most players are over rated, the play footy , drink beer , play video games and root around and are loved. Love is blind
 

manly al

First Grader
It’ll help if dce stops running into the opposition decoy runners when we’re defending our right side.No wonder garrick is struggling in defence does anyone else notice that.
Realize that it can be a tough gig at N R L level in particular aiming up on edge defences but sure that there can be some better reading of the play on what seems to be regularly on D C E side .
Probably also better for Saab to just stick to his winger and then chase down the opposition player getting clear out wider or make it easier for the Manly full back to shut the ball runner down closer in instead of the more difficult task of trying to stop a corner sideline touch down .
But yeah , again always a heap of pressure on any ruck defence but also just a simple case of trying to read numbers and decoy plays and that really has to start or is more evident just off the ruck area and for whatever reason for Manly , a problem area in and around the edge where D C E should mainly be calling the shots .
Had a generally [ or should be definitely acknowledged ] really good overall season last year after a few indifferent seasons [ D C E ] and in patches this year in club land but does not seem to be as an effective one on one or ruck defender for a while now , well just my perception
 

Disco

First Grader
Premium Member
Foran has been on 3 or 400k for 3 seasons. Hard to see how he isnt great value.

His second year in the second coming he outplayed DCE easily , qld and aussie half. if DCE had a ratchet clause in his contract he would of been on 4 times fozs contract due to big increases in the cap

I can never recall manly fans justifying forans position because of his form for the kiwis.

True , Foran was also part of something where together they were stronger than the individual parts. Thats a team but what was his impact. Clearly made T Rex, mark horo world beaters while oku and sirro look anything but outside the main man

But in a full contact sport its strange that some see using the body to full effect to improve the team as being a strange tactic , and those that dont are fulfilling there potential. Imagine choosing props like that

Most players are over rated, the play footy , drink beer , play video games and root around and are loved. Love is blind

Okay, a lot to unpack here.

  • Foran is great value on 300-400k
  • I never mentioned DCE, a comparision between the two or their respective contracts.
  • I never referenced Forans Manly career specifically or his career for the Kiwis....and again I never referenced DCE
*Foran is very good for his secondrower. Not sure I'd say he made Horo a world beater, but he did get a lazy T-Rex to have his best patch and he is a net positive for Fifita. Olakau'atu is much better than both T-Rex and Horo so not sure I get your point there.....maybe T-Rex for one half a season shaded him.
*Who is saying using your body to full effect is a strange tactic and that those who dont are fufilling there potential? Wild take. I think it is to be admired.
* I'm not talking overated in their net value in society. I'm talking overated in their standing in the game.

All in all I think Foran has been a great player and had a great career.
I also think he has been overated in his career as a whole and his tough as teak persona plays into that (again being tough is good....lets not mistake that).

He was for the most part of his career been mentioned as one of the elite halves in the game. I'd not have him in the Joey, Freddy, Locky, Cronk, Thurston, Munster, Cleary class.

In near all but maybe 1 or 2 years I probably wouldn't have had him in the top 5 halves in the game.

Great player but not as great as many proclaim.

All just my opinion of course.
 

manly al

First Grader
Unpopular opinion.

Foran is a bit overated on the whole.

Great player but not as great as is often made out IMO.

Hugely benefits from the fact he puts his body on the line every game.

Fans are drawn to the tough as teak personas.




Okay....here we go.
Actually recall reading an article in an off season around 2014 or so and Foz even then trying to get his [ already and future on a regular off season basis ] battered body back into better shape as a result of his courageous style digging well into the line and maximizing his outside supports attacking opportunities
.Just seemed to do it as a matter of duty for his Manly team mates and club and looks like the same commitment level even now elsewhere and with must be also now , an even more battered body .
That has to count pretty impressively on the endurance scale despite missing many club games for some time when he left Manly but did quite well on his Manly return in overall game appearances
Hard to compare in general both players [ D C E and Foz ] both really good natural ability and playing traits , different playing styles to a large degree but of course both great players at their best .
Skill level and even slightly ability wise , fair to say D C E , overall attacking prowess and ignoring a playing welfare perspective putting one body regularly on the line . would say an almost generational player in Foz
 

jbb/james

First Grader
Premium Member
Tipping Member
Okay, a lot to unpack here.

  • Foran is great value on 300-400k
  • I never mentioned DCE, a comparision between the two or their respective contracts.
  • I never referenced Forans Manly career specifically or his career for the Kiwis....and again I never referenced DCE
*Foran is very good for his secondrower. Not sure I'd say he made Horo a world beater, but he did get a lazy T-Rex to have his best patch and he is a net positive for Fifita. Olakau'atu is much better than both T-Rex and Horo so not sure I get your point there.....maybe T-Rex for one half a season shaded him.
*Who is saying using your body to full effect is a strange tactic and that those who dont are fufilling there potential? Wild take. I think it is to be admired.
* I'm not talking overated in their net value in society. I'm talking overated in their standing in the game.

All in all I think Foran has been a great player and had a great career.
I also think he has been overated in his career as a whole and his tough as teak persona plays into that (again being tough is good....lets not mistake that).

He was for the most part of his career been mentioned as one of the elite halves in the game. I'd not have him in the Joey, Freddy, Locky, Cronk, Thurston, Munster, Cleary class.

In near all but maybe 1 or 2 years I probably wouldn't have had him in the top 5 halves in the game.

Great player but not as great as many proclaim.

All just my opinion of course.
Look, clearly i took some leeway and i apolagise for that Mr/Mrs disco .
World beaters also Nah, but the best they ever were outside of Foz. Yes

It comes down to roles, for the whole team and Foran like cronk became halves because they perform those roles first and foremost.

I dont think people on ST are comparing foz/chez standing in the game , seems new to me but
rather comparing the type of player that inspires others around him because that is a KEY role of the good 7 in lots of fans eyes,
 

WiseyEagle

Reserve Grader
Foran has been on 3 or 400k for 3 seasons. Hard to see how he isnt great value.

His second year in the second coming he outplayed DCE easily , qld and aussie half. if DCE had a ratchet clause in his contract he would of been on 4 times fozs contract due to big increases in the cap

I can never recall manly fans justifying forans position because of his form for the kiwis.

True , Foran was also part of something where together they were stronger than the individual parts. Thats a team but what was his impact. Clearly made T Rex, mark horo world beaters while oku and sirro look anything but outside the main man

But in a full contact sport its strange that some see using the body to full effect to improve the team as being a strange tactic , and those that dont are fulfilling there potential. Imagine choosing props like that

Most players are over rated, the play footy , drink beer , play video games and root around and are loved. Love is blind
He probably punts 25% of that 300K-400K, so depending on his punting skills, he could be making more on the side?
 

KaZa

Bencher
It’ll help if dce stops running into the opposition decoy runners when we’re defending our right side.No wonder garrick is struggling in defence does anyone else notice that.
How people don't see this and just blame the centre and winger rushing in... it's happened for years with loads of players due to this... but anyway... he plays for qld...
 

Bearfax

Grizzly old fart
Important in all things to try to stick with the facts, not just conjecture. The facts suggest DCE is very much top tier. Our personal partiality may disagree with that, but unless it can be backed up with facts, its just partial opinion. I'm reading lots of comments that Thurston was much better than DCE that Foran was better, that DCE was a good half but not a great one. But where are the facts supporting those opinions? Anecdotal material relating to certain perceived incidents seen on several occasions are only cherry picking to support a position. Unless the issue is seen holistically, it has little substance. Just saying.
 

jbb/james

First Grader
Premium Member
Tipping Member
Important in all things to try to stick with the facts, not just conjecture. The facts suggest DCE is very much top tier. Our personal partiality may disagree with that, but unless it can be backed up with facts, its just partial opinion. I'm reading lots of comments that Thurston was much better than DCE that Foran was better, that DCE was a good half but not a great one. But where are the facts supporting those opinions? Anecdotal material relating to certain perceived incidents seen on several occasions are only cherry picking to support a position. Unless the issue is seen holistically, it has little substance. Just saying.
Historical honour boards do nothing for Manlys future
 

Tragic Eagle

Tragic
Premium Member
Tipping Member
I find the title of this thread very very disrespectful. DCE is our captain, ever conquering Queensland captain and he has given this club excellent service. No player is infallible and yes his game management is not consistently good and the timing of low percentage players is sometimes regrettable. But he gives 110% week in and week out and at his age is the best player in the game. Show some respect he has earned it!
 

KaZa

Bencher
Important in all things to try to stick with the facts, not just conjecture. The facts suggest DCE is very much top tier. Our personal partiality may disagree with that, but unless it can be backed up with facts, its just partial opinion. I'm reading lots of comments that Thurston was much better than DCE that Foran was better, that DCE was a good half but not a great one. But where are the facts supporting those opinions? Anecdotal material relating to certain perceived incidents seen on several occasions are only cherry picking to support a position. Unless the issue is seen holistically, it has little substance. Just saying.
depends what you want to base it on. Stats... how many finals has we made. If he is our best ever or as you say 'top tier'. Top tier grabs the side and makes it top 4 every season. Blaming the rest of the cattle is excuses. We have had good sides. We have one now. How many leads have we blown? This is his job to ice the match with controlling the game. He let us down with this department. So did Brooks. But hes not suppose to be top tier getting 1.3M a season for how long.

Top tier players do it on their own. You argued earlier.. how many top tier are at midtable or outside the top 8 clubs. NONE. Because they are top tier. They are that good. DCE is not. He is overrated massively because hes played alot of games for the club. His defence has massive flaws and for a while now that goes unnoticed.. not neccesarily his technique but his reading of the defence.. his management of games has been a massive issue. Not saying hes the worst half back.. not agreeing with that. Hes not. Hes a good half back. Top tier? No.. never. Not for me. Throw whatever stats you want... we have been poor under his leadership.
 

Bearfax

Grizzly old fart
depends what you want to base it on. Stats... how many finals has we made. If he is our best ever or as you say 'top tier'. Top tier grabs the side and makes it top 4 every season. Blaming the rest of the cattle is excuses. We have had good sides. We have one now. How many leads have we blown? This is his job to ice the match with controlling the game. He let us down with this department. So did Brooks. But hes not suppose to be top tier getting 1.3M a season for how long.

Top tier players do it on their own. You argued earlier.. how many top tier are at midtable or outside the top 8 clubs. NONE. Because they are top tier. They are that good. DCE is not. He is overrated massively because hes played alot of games for the club. His defence has massive flaws and for a while now that goes unnoticed.. not neccesarily his technique but his reading of the defence.. his management of games has been a massive issue. Not saying hes the worst half back.. not agreeing with that. Hes not. Hes a good half back. Top tier? No.. never. Not for me. Throw whatever stats you want... we have been poor under his leadership.


Got the cart in front of the horse logic there mate. Look at the number of top players came out of West Tigers. One premiership in 24 years and before that Wests last premiership was in 1954 and Balmain's in 1969. Now check out the number a great players came out of that side. If they had kept them they would more than possibly got themselves several premierships. But the best players left to play mainly with the top tier sides. The best players gravitate to the teams that firstly pay the big bucks, but just as importantly the team they are most likely to shine in and with a strong chance of winning a premiership or two. That way they enhance their value for later contracts.

You rarely see the cream of the game playing for bottom 8 sides. Some players occasionally out of loyalty stick with a club. DCE I believe is one of them. Ken Irvine, arguably the best winger ever in the Australian game, played for Norths year after year easily being the top try scorer in the history of the game. During his time Norths never won a premiership and only occasionally made the finals. He had to leave Norths for Manly, a top tier side at that time, in his twilight years, to get two premierships '72 and '73. The best winger yet almost always in a team of also rans.

The make up of the team determines if they are going to be top tier. The top players utilise that team performance to give that extra dimension that wins a premiership. Top players don't make a top team. They benefit from a top team.
 

mike walker

Reserve Grader
Premium Member
Got the cart in front of the horse logic there mate. Look at the number of top players came out of West Tigers. One premiership in 24 years and before that Wests last premiership was in 1954 and Balmain's in 1969. Now check out the number a great players came out of that side. If they had kept them they would more than possibly got themselves several premierships. But the best players left to play mainly with the top tier sides. The best players gravitate to the teams that firstly pay the big bucks, but just as importantly the team they are most likely to shine in and with a strong chance of winning a premiership or two. That way they enhance their value for later contracts.

You rarely see the cream of the game playing for bottom 8 sides. Some players occasionally out of loyalty stick with a club. DCE I believe is one of them. Ken Irvine, arguably the best winger ever in the Australian game, played for Norths year after year easily being the top try scorer in the history of the game. During his time Norths never won a premiership and only occasionally made the finals. He had to leave Norths for Manly, a top tier side at that time, in his twilight years, to get two premierships '72 and '73. The best winger yet almost always in a team of also rans.

The make up of the team determines if they are going to be top tier. The top players utilise that team performance to give that extra dimension that wins a premiership. Top players don't make a top team. They benefit from a top team.
G'day all,Remember it well Bear,even though we had the great Fulton we had the tag of bridesmaids.It wasn't until we got blokes like O'Neill and Branhigan from Souths,Irvine as you mentioned and Malcolm Reilly that we finally cracked it.Even the Immortal Fulton couldn't do it on his own.
cheers mike
 

Bearfax

Grizzly old fart
G'day all,Remember it well Bear,even though we had the great Fulton we had the tag of bridesmaids.It wasn't until we got blokes like O'Neill and Branhigan from Souths,Irvine as you mentioned and Malcolm Reilly that we finally cracked it.Even the Immortal Fulton couldn't do it on his own.
cheers mike


It was a great side. Randall, Thomson, Max Brown, Ward, Ian Martin, Herman Hamilton, Jones (soon to give way to Krillich who was wowing them in reserves and actually made a rep side from reserves) even the much maligned Peter Peters ( was in the '73 GF side), who he didn't play in that '72 grand final. And as you say then we had O'Neill, Branigan, Irvine, Reilly, Fulton and Eadie. What a side. Fulton was the star but he was also great because of what he had around him. Was there at the cricket ground to watch the first premiership win. Great experience.
 

Ryan

Journey Man
I don't think anyone can have a go at DCE individually. I think that's way too harsh. I think he's part of a collective (and behind a well beaten forward pack mostly).

What upsets and frustrates me is our marquee / leadership group in total. They've let us down. 10 years for 3 finals appearances (winning just 30% of those finals).

The three turbo brothers may never play in a GF, let alone win a premiership. Then there's DCE, and he's shown with good players around him, he CAN do it (2011), Origin, Australia etc.

I wonder though, who IS out marquee players, and / or leadership group? What have they achieved at club level together ? Is it good enough ?
 
Team P W L PD Pts
17 14 3 141 34
17 11 6 125 28
16 11 5 116 28
18 11 7 209 26
16 9 7 65 24
16 9 7 48 24
17 9 8 -56 24
17 9 7 67 23
17 9 8 1 22
17 8 9 -91 22
18 8 10 25 20
17 7 10 -90 20
18 8 10 -97 20
18 7 10 -34 19
16 6 10 -59 18
17 4 13 -153 14
18 4 14 -217 12
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