DCE and who should be Captain

[madmax]

Yes... on sets where we were otherwise running downfield easily against the team running 16th and last in the competition

When he is firing he is great, otherwise he disappears. Thought it was worth pointing out when we consider who should be captain.

Yeah maybe the overrated Jake T should be captain.

 

[madmax]

Gee... Tell us how you really feel. Maybe this thread would have got a better response after we capitulated against the Tigers.

Steve Menzies was a great player right up until the day he retired. But as a captain he was not the answer... And was eventually replaced by Monaghan/Kennedy/Orford.

The question here is whether or not DCE is the answer as captain.

I just think he falls short in being able to calm the team when we are up against the wall. As noted earlier the Tigers loss (as one example) should not have happened.

Yeah & Jake would have been better lolololol

 

[bob dylan]

Unfortunately Jakes lack of composure will count against him.

Admire his passion but blowing up at every decision will not endear him to the match officials.

In a 28 man squad he would be my 28th pick for captain.

If i was going to battle he would be my first pick to stand beside, and is my favourite player.

 

[HK_Eagle]

We can agree to disagree on this... but as for the roles he plays..
Try assists 2nd in the nrl
Line break assist 3rd nrl (highest half, as 1st and 2nd are fullbacks)
2nd in nrl for kicks taken
2nd nrl for kick meters
3rd in nrl for being support player (2nd is jake)

With a joke of backline around him it looks to me like dce is busting his @rse week in week out.
Cant ask for more leadership than that... the players around him need a long hard look at themselves.. thats tafua, parker, suli, garrick... since toms been away NONE of these guys have upped their input .. if dce doesn't hand them a scoring chance on a silver platter they wouldn't be involved in plays at all...
But sack the bloke.. see how long it takes to get our first spoon..

And where on the list is he for MANAGING a game?
Lifting the performance of his players around him?
Maintaining composure of his team?
These are the critical roles many on here have been calling DCE out for, and in my opinion, fairly so. He is our CAPTAIN. The above roles are what great leaders do.

How effective were those kicks taken? I would consider it a disaster when you have a player 2nd for kicks taken in the NRL when they are as impotent as DCE's have been this season. In this case it's a question of quantity, not quality.

 

[bSw]

We can agree to disagree on this... but as for the roles he plays..
Try assists 2nd in the nrl
Line break assist 3rd nrl (highest half, as 1st and 2nd are fullbacks)
2nd in nrl for kicks taken
2nd nrl for kick meters
3rd in nrl for being support player (2nd is jake)

With a joke of backline around him it looks to me like dce is busting his @rse week in week out.
Cant ask for more leadership than that... the players around him need a long hard look at themselves.. thats tafua, parker, suli, garrick... since toms been away NONE of these guys have upped their input .. if dce doesn't hand them a scoring chance on a silver platter they wouldn't be involved in plays at all...
But sack the bloke.. see how long it takes to get our first spoon..

Here fkn here! Muppets here trying to lay blame to one of the game's premier players who clearly has a dig, when pretty much every other player in the team has been embarrassingly outplayed by their opposite numbers every single game. Bunch of haters who can't seem to look past pay - which has nothing to do with footy, and they pretend to know what they're talking about by using blanket terms like "game management" without quite obviously understanding the game

 

[Scorpio]

Yawn zzzzzzzzzz

Thankyou for your well thought out, constructive response

 

[madmax]

Thankyou for your well thought out, constructive response

I always yawn when player bashing becomes boring! Not much thought required when responding your dislike & disrespect for certain players!

 

[Scorpio]

I always yawn when player bashing becomes boring! Not much thought required when responding your dislike & disrespect for certain players!

Usually I wouldn't bother responding to people who say that thinking is not required... but I will spell this out:

• We haven't finished in the top 4 since 2014
• Since then, we have only made the finals twice - in 2017 and 2019
• We are currently 10th and it will be a minor miracle if we play finals this year

Not an outstanding record is it?

So, instead of blaming our budget centres and wingers (like several other people here do)... I thought it was worthwhile asking about more structural issues... like whether we have the right captain.

We haven't seemed to be able to close out games this year (barring the Cowboys match... and they are 14th). Last week against the Tigers we managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. I see calming the team, making sure they do their roles, keeping them focused on field, largely as the responsibility of the Captain.

To me I have seen enough this season to question whether or not DCE is the right person for that role.

If people want to dismiss questions like that as simple dislike or disrespect then there is no point being on a football forum.

 

[Bearfax]

I was watching the latest match again after some DCE bagging, which quite frankly astonishes me.

If you look carefully at the structure and play making of this team it almost all centres around DCE. They all seem to wait for him to initiate play. He's the solitary one running about the field trying to initiate the attack and for some time he's had a pedestrian back line that didn't have the creativity to use his set ups and more recently he's had a different backline almost every week. Half backs need creative 5/8s as an optional play maker. Cronk-Munster, Cronk-Leary, Thurston-Morgan, Cleary-Laui, Reynolds-Cody Walker and in the past Moses-Gutherson

I was encouraged when Des finally got some young players like Harper, Funa and Hopoate in that back line. Cust is also showing improvement. The problem remains though that if DCE does nothing, nothing but bash and barge from the forwards happens. Little wonder that the forwards have been scoring the majority of tries this season.

DCE will be a different proposition next season as long as Des gets Schuster in at 5/8 immediately the season commences. They need a second option as play maker. Cust tries hard but he's a half back, not a 5/8 and those positions are quite different in requirements. He may well be a fine hooker in the Toovey style.

The problem at present and for most of the year, opposition teams just have to watch and cover DCE and his play and other than the forwards efforts in the middle, the Manly attack can be stifled. I suggest those who doubt this look carefully at who initiates the play almost every time at Manly.

The question of Captain is open as far as I'm concerned. Not sure Jake is the answer. Need someone who calls the shots. I suspect Schuster may take the role in years to come.

 

[madmax]

Usually I wouldn't bother responding to people who say that thinking is not required... but I will spell this out:

• We haven't finished in the top 4 since 2014
• Since then, we have only made the finals twice - in 2017 and 2019
• We are currently 10th and it will be a minor miracle if we play finals this year

Not an outstanding record is it?

So, instead of blaming our budget centres and wingers (like several other people here do)... I thought it was worthwhile asking about more structural issues... like whether we have the right captain.

We haven't seemed to be able to close out games this year (barring the Cowboys match... and they are 14th). Last week against the Tigers we managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. I see calming the team, making sure they do their roles, keeping them focused on field, largely as the responsibility of the Captain.

To me I have seen enough this season to question whether or not DCE is the right person for that role.

If people want to dismiss questions like that as simple dislike or disrespect then there is no point being on a football forum.

And that is the fault of DCE? Do I dare ask who you feel would be a better captain? Let me guess Jake Trbojevic? Or better still let’s get Queen Gutho back to lead us.....

 

[BOZO]

DCE is a Great captain
Des is a Great coach
Once we build a squad of competent players we will see success

 

[AlxFromNthNarra]

DCE is a Great captain
Des is a Great coach
Once we build a squad of competent players we will see success

Captain needs to lead and inspire.

Say what you want about DCE, but unless the rest of the team say it I put it down to a little bit of distorted expectation regardless of his price-tag.

He isn't a Ben Hunt coming off the bench. He isn't a flaky Ash Taylor. He isn't an MIA Milford. He isn't a walking-wounded Foran. At the same time he isn't immortal Scam,

Dude is not perfect, but I think he's a soldier and keeps putting in, despite the odd average performance. I obviously don't see any effort shirking others might.

Add to that, he is most adept with the prickly Media (takes pressure off the rest of the team who aren't so eloquent (esp when the team is under-performing), and he never points the blame at others - introspects about his own/his team's performance maturely when it would be easy to lay the blame on **** calls (Turbo's pass Vs Parra this year the most prominent - but not the only one). Give us the Newcastle1/Parra1 results we arguably should have received and we are level with the sharks with a more winnable run home.

That may not be viewed as important to some, but in reality the timing of the specific injuries hurt our positional stability ALL season:

• Firstly, losing Fainu for the season put us in a no-win sitch late in the off-season with few options available, and Levi - like it or lump it - was the best available, and we got him
• losing Dylan exposed a backline weakness we didn't have the backline depth to accommodate. Admittedly, some youngsters this year have emerged as that possible depth we lack, so so certainly encouraging.
• losing outside backs in every one of those losses in that 6-game losing streak (during the game no less) meant an in-game shuffle we just couldn't adapt to constantly - like we did with Canberra.
• Losing Suli, and having Jorge off-form all season killed our kick-returns - instead we watched Garrick/Elliot/Parker/Funa get ragdolled and our go-fwd on kick returns often saw us pinned in our 20-30 on tackle 3-4 with still-returning fwds running back on-side. We lost early-set go-forward though, and that NEEDS to be addressed
• losing Turbo hurt the most, and needs no explanation.

As some have mentioned, DCEs absence wouldn't have made us a better team this year.

Watching the team in 2019 play as they did, with the same people that almost won the spoon the season before, with the adversity faced with players out (including DCE/Turbo for a long stretch), was an easy way to see that we have a better attitude now than we did in 2018. We saw that tenacity again vs Canberra earlier in the year, and I am confident we still have it with Des at the helm.

 

[BOZO]

Captain needs to lead and inspire.

Say what you want about DCE, but unless the rest of the team say it I put it down to a little bit of distorted expectation regardless of his price-tag.

He isn't a Ben Hunt coming off the bench. He isn't a flaky Ash Taylor. He isn't an MIA Milford. He isn't a walking-wounded Foran. At the same time he isn't immortal Scam,

Dude is not perfect, but I think he's a soldier and keeps putting in, despite the odd average performance. I obviously don't see any effort shirking others might.

Add to that, he is most adept with the prickly Media (takes pressure off the rest of the team who aren't so eloquent (esp when the team is under-performing), and he never points the blame at others - introspects about his own/his team's performance maturely when it would be easy to lay the blame on **** calls (Turbo's pass Vs Parra this year the most prominent - but not the only one). Give us the Newcastle1/Parra1 results we arguably should have received and we are level with the sharks with a more winnable run home.

That may not be viewed as important to some, but in reality the timing of the specific injuries hurt our positional stability ALL season:

• Firstly, losing Fainu for the season put us in a no-win sitch late in the off-season with few options available, and Levi - like it or lump it - was the best available, and we got him
• losing Dylan exposed a backline weakness we didn't have the backline depth to accommodate. Admittedly, some youngsters this year have emerged as that possible depth we lack, so so certainly encouraging.
• losing outside backs in every one of those losses in that 6-game losing streak (during the game no less) meant an in-game shuffle we just couldn't adapt to constantly - like we did with Canberra.
• Losing Suli, and having Jorge off-form all season killed our kick-returns - instead we watched Garrick/Elliot/Parker/Funa get ragdolled and our go-fwd on kick returns often saw us pinned in our 20-30 on tackle 3-4 with still-returning fwds running back on-side. We lost early-set go-forward though, and that NEEDS to be addressed
• losing Turbo hurt the most, and needs no explanation.

As some have mentioned, DCEs absence wouldn't have made us a better team this year.

Watching the team in 2019 play as they did, with the same people that almost won the spoon the season before, with the adversity faced with players out (including DCE/Turbo for a long stretch), was an easy way to see that we have a better attitude now than we did in 2018. We saw that tenacity again vs Canberra earlier in the year, and I am confident we still have it with Des at the helm.

DCE has inspired his team to many wins . Johnathan Thurston was a great captain of a great quality Cowboys team and also the captain of poor quality Cowboy teams that failed to make the 8 as well
The moral of the story
You cant lead troops to victory that fire blanks

 

[Scorpio]

And that is the fault of DCE? Do I dare ask who you feel would be a better captain? Let me guess Jake Trbojevic? Or better still let’s get Queen Gutho back to lead us.....

Since you asked, I don't know if our next premiership-winning captain is currently in the squad to be honest.

Jake isn't ready, still too temperamental I think.

Marty, as a prop, is off the field half the time, which is not what you want from your captain.

Nobody, except you, has mentioned Gutherson as our captain.

I was watching the latest match again after some DCE bagging, which quite frankly astonishes me.

Two things... This thread was supposed to be about DCE the captain, not DCE the halfback (which is covered elsewhere).

Also... in our latest match we won against the 16th-placed Bulldogs, who have won only 2 games this year.

The question of Captain is open as far as I'm concerned. Not sure Jake is the answer. Need someone who calls the shots.

Well this sums it up to me. A reasonable person such as yourself doesn't see the role as captain as being assured, but also there aren't any obvious replacements we have.

For what it's worth, hopefully we win a premiership with DCE with captain, I'm just not convinced it is going to happen though.

 

[Bring back the.... Biff?]

This thread needs to be merged with the dce myth thread.

He has been alot better the last 2 weeks. Too little too late i guess. No team would make the finals with their regular 1 6 and 9 out for the year or most of.

Storm
No smith paps and Munster might make the finals

Roosters
No Keary tedesco and friend might make the finals

Eels
No gutho brown and Mahoney yeah nah!

Raiders
No Hodgson wighton no CNK yeah nah!

Souths
No Latrine walker and cook yeah nah!

Manly
No turbo fainu and walker nope!

Sure dce has been terrible most of the year but its pretty hard with so many duds around him.. parker elliot taufua garrick croker levi wouldn't make any other side

 

[Simonmyers11]

Scorpio who do you think would make a good captain? I don't think anyone in that team is more capable and more deserving than DCE. He is pretty much the most maligned and scrutinized player in the NRL but that has given him the steely resolve that makes him a great captain. That and the fact he is well respected not only by his peers but opposition players and coaches, commentators, referee's. You can see when he talks player's listen, he gives extra attention and mentoring the the young players, he takes responsibility. He never blames a loss on anyone other them himself. He tries to get players to strive to achieve their best and always improve. Jamie Lyon was an amazing captain, one of the best Manly has ever had! He also was surrounded by leaders. The Stewart brothers, Matai, Kite, Ballin etc. All of those players took it upon themselves to lead by example. Who does that currently except DCE? In fact, I think the team rely on him too heavily! If he doesn't do anything, nothing happens and we probably don't win! We have not been in top 4 since 2014, but have we really had a top 4 side? Last year was the first time in years I thought top 4, but again injuries ruined the season. For me, he is the obvious choice and a bloody good captain. Represents Manly on and off the field with all class. He is not perfect, not in career best form, but he can deliver us another premiership. If we make it to the finals and even a GF in the coming years and the game is in the balance, he is a player who will strive in those pressure moments that can win or lose you a premiership

 

[bSw]

Scorpio who do you think would make a good captain? I don't think anyone in that team is more capable and more deserving than DCE. He is pretty much the most maligned and scrutinized player in the NRL but that has given him the steely resolve that makes him a great captain. That and the fact he is well respected not only by his peers but opposition players and coaches, commentators, referee's. You can see when he talks player's listen, he gives extra attention and mentoring the the young players, he takes responsibility. He never blames a loss on anyone other them himself. He tries to get players to strive to achieve their best and always improve. Jamie Lyon was an amazing captain, one of the best Manly has ever had! He also was surrounded by leaders. The Stewart brothers, Matai, Kite, Ballin etc. All of those players took it upon themselves to lead by example. Who does that currently except DCE? In fact, I think the team rely on him too heavily! If he doesn't do anything, nothing happens and we probably don't win! We have not been in top 4 since 2014, but have we really had a top 4 side? Last year was the first time in years I thought top 4, but again injuries ruined the season. For me, he is the obvious choice and a bloody good captain. Represents Manly on and off the field with all class. He is not perfect, not in career best form, but he can deliver us another premiership. If we make it to the finals and even a GF in the coming years and the game is in the balance, he is a player who will strive in those pressure moments that can win or lose you a premiership

Perfectly stated champ

 

[Bearfax]

Since you asked, I don't know if our next premiership-winning captain is currently in the squad to be honest.

Jake isn't ready, still too temperamental I think.

Marty, as a prop, is off the field half the time, which is not what you want from your captain.

Nobody, except you, has mentioned Gutherson as our captain.



Two things... This thread was supposed to be about DCE the captain, not DCE the halfback (which is covered elsewhere).

Also... in our latest match we won against the 16th-placed Bulldogs, who have won only 2 games this year.



Well this sums it up to me. A reasonable person such as yourself doesn't see the role as captain as being assured, but also there aren't any obvious replacements we have.

For what it's worth, hopefully we win a premiership with DCE with captain, I'm just not convinced it is going to happen though.

Sorry Scorpio. Yes I was on about DCE mainly because he's copped so much flack. He is our best captain at present. I cant see anyone else with the necessary qualities at present. Jake is inspiring with his work, but I'm not sure about leadership qualities. Maybe, but DCE at present gets my vote. I mentioned Schuster because he was captain in the juniors and he's in the ideal position. But not for a few seasons I'd say.

 

[jbb/james]

If tom comes back he has the temperment He is well centred, respected but the team isnt ready for him due to the massive workload expected if him.

This year i would have had thommo
Joint captains have been used with success , i would probably try a marty/ jake option. We get smashed in the penalties anyway. Whats there to lose to help nurture the team and individuals who we have vested our future in. The forwards were carrying us until the group threw in the towel. Its only fair in my opinion . I also exoect marty would want it on his profile and its a good thing

People bang on about how DCE has to do it all
When turbo plays, he does do it all and DCE plays support from within his shell.

Tom Should be running off cherry, not the other way around
Watch the earlier season games if your fair dinkum about this issue.
There is much to see when results and emotion are taken out of the 80 minutes

DCE has had a massive workload lately but he was crusing until about round 14 barely breaking a sweat, but his style jyst doesnt suit being under pressure so whats to lose in experimenting.

down the track, keppie has some qualities also it seems

 

[mosto]

How well have the Warriors done this year with a depleted line up and incredible adversity.

Looking at the table, no better than us.