DCE 2 more years and coaching gig

[40 years an eagle]

Na, this is a completely different situation, he is a year away from being available to everyone, but I’m assuming the Dolphins can start talking turkey very soon and he is a logical target for them

You must have missed the Brent Reid statement mate, that "clubs can talk to players anytime but can only table a contract offer after Nov 1" preceding their final contract year.

If they are looking at DCE they have ALREADY TALKED TO HIM...and that may be why this offer is being put to him by us.

Also if DCE is not interested in going there then there was no need to make the offer.

 

[double hoops]

Unless he starts being an organising kicking controlling 7, the older he gets the slower he gets, and the way he plays currently I'll say the worse he gets.

Time will tell. He is capable of organising, he just prefers not too.

Cant have him and Foz as our long term halves. Something's got to give in 22 for mine.

 

[George Rose's Butcher]

Manly in talks to extend Chez a further 2 years and offer him an assistant coach gig beyond that, with a view to possibly taking over as main coach in the long term.

With bugger all Halfbacks in the comp at present its a good move. Daly would make a great coach imo

 

[Scorpio]

Na, this is a completely different situation, he is a year away from being available to everyone, but I’m assuming the Dolphins can start talking turkey very soon and he is a logical target for them

Reasons why I (a total armchair expert) think it's a stupid idea for the club to negotiate now:

1. If true, I don't like the idea that our club captain (or his manager who acts on behalf of him) is content to game the club into a long term deal by using the Dolphins as a pawn. Surely if they weren't interested in talking to the Dolphins then this is not a story.

This is someone who has for years, thanks to Manly, been one of, if not the highest paid player in the competition. Whether everyone thinks he is worth his current price tag of around $1.2m per season is a separate issue.

2. He is 32 now, and will be 34 years old at the end of his current contract. Right now, no one knows if he will be in good form in the final season of his contract. That's when extensions are usually signed, with an appropriate contract value. Offering/negotiating a value for a 2-year contract extension now, two years in advance is... speculative.

3. We have even less idea if he will still be playing well at age 36 (closer to 37) which is how old he'll be if extended at the end of the possible two-year extension. Maybe his body will/won't be holding up then. It only takes one or two injuries, and the end can come quickly for footy players over the age of 30.

4. If we extend him again, we postpone or end the possibility of career development at our club for young halfbacks that we may have (or any that we may have/will otherwise sign from elsewhere). So I'd rather the club assess the merits of re-signing DCE versus younger cheaper alternatives closer to the end of his current contract, which still has 2 years left to run.

Those are my reasons

 

[Mal Cochrane]

I'm kind of hard on DCE because he doesnt control games like a Cronk, Adam Reynolds, Cleary etc.

That is what i feel manly miss at crucial times. He is a jack in the box type player that plays what he sees in front of him, which can be magical at times, but again, not consistant and able to control the play when manly loses the momentum, it seems its everyones job to try and pull something off rather than control the play to allow the team to settle and gain back the momentum.

But then lets look at some of Manly's recent great #7's.

Toovey, Hasler, Blake, Gibbs, etc...they werent game management players either, only orford would fit into the game management bracket. Perhaps the before mentioned players were playing along other game management players, where DCE doesnt have this luxury.

What does this mean? **** i don't even know where Im going with this....

 

[Terry Zarsoff]

Nor do we.

 

[Cioran]

I'm kind of hard on DCE because he doesnt control games like a Cronk, Adam Reynolds, Cleary etc.

That is what i feel manly miss at crucial times. He is a jack in the box type player that plays what he sees in front of him, which can be magical at times, but again, not consistant and able to control the play when manly loses the momentum, it seems its everyones job to try and pull something off rather than control the play to allow the team to settle and gain back the momentum.

But then lets look at some of Manly's recent great #7's.

Toovey, Hasler, Blake, Gibbs, etc...they werent game management players either, only orford would fit into the game management bracket. Perhaps the before mentioned players were playing along other game management players, where DCE doesnt have this luxury.

What does this mean? **** i don't even know where Im going with this....

Beautifully said. You've elaborated pretty well the concerns that many of us have about DCE and his role in the team. I've also looked at our great halves of the past and come to the same conclusion: that Manly teams have rarely relied on organising halves. So why are we paying so much money for just another attacking player. I don't denigh that he's a great face for the team and works hard on and off the field but he doesn't lift the performance of the other players the way a great half-back should.

As we don't rely on organising halves, and as the rest of the team is starting to work well and appears to be carrying DCE anyway, we're in a good position to give a new, younger, cheaper half breathing room to learn his trade and work his way into the team.

I'm not saying I want him to go - he's still part of the Manly family - but I don't think we will NEED him in a years time.

 

[The better Robbo]

Reasons why I (a total armchair expert) think it's a stupid idea for the club to negotiate now:

1. If true, I don't like the idea that our club captain (or his manager who acts on behalf of him) is content to game the club into a long term deal by using the Dolphins as a pawn. Surely if they weren't interested in talking to the Dolphins then this is not a story.

This is someone who has for years, thanks to Manly, been one of, if not the highest paid player in the competition. Whether everyone thinks he is worth his current price tag of around $1.2m per season is a separate issue.

2. He is 32 now, and will be 34 years old at the end of his current contract. Right now, no one knows if he will be in good form in the final season of his contract. That's when extensions are usually signed, with an appropriate contract value. Offering/negotiating a value for a 2-year contract extension now, two years in advance is... speculative.

3. We have even less idea if he will still be playing well at age 36 (closer to 37) which is how old he'll be if extended at the end of the possible two-year extension. Maybe his body will/won't be holding up then. It only takes one or two injuries, and the end can come quickly for footy players over the age of 30.

4. If we extend him again, we postpone or end the possibility of career development at our club for young halfbacks that we may have (or any that we may have/will otherwise sign from elsewhere). So I'd rather the club assess the merits of re-signing DCE versus younger cheaper alternatives closer to the end of his current contract, which still has 2 years left to run.

Those are my reasons

In response.
1. Apparently it was Manly who went to Chez not the other way around. If we lost Chez who would we go and sign???
2. Other than Reynolds, Cleary and Munster who would you want in our halves? Reynolds is at Brisbane long term, put a line through Cleary and Munster will be at Storm or Dolphins.
3. Chez is an elite athlete and is in as good shape as any guy 3 or 4 years younger than him.
4. When is the last time Manly developed a #7? Chez maybe??? and who would you have in mind to develop? We have Schuster and Latu Fainu. Fainu would be what 20 or 21 when Chez retires, that seems about perfect timing.
Schuster could take over Foz in 2023 and Fainu can work his way in from the bench and filling in to start his career.

 

[Cioran]

Some people argue that if we loose Chez we need to replace him with another elite half back. We're not trying to replace Andrew Johns or Cooper Cronk. Chez's contribution to the team is, largely, to boot the ball hard down the middle of the field to the opposition fullback; defend well (when he doesn't loose his head and run up out of the line); and to be there in support when other players make a break. And to kick the occasional field goal of course. I'm sure a number of the young halves we've let go over the past decade (Nicholls, Drinkwater, Lussic etc) had the potential to provide these services at lower cost. They may have thrown less hospital passes, had less brain snaps, and been caught out of position less often.

I'm now going to hide in a hole till you run out of rocks.

 

[Waz13]

Some people argue that if we loose Chez we need to replace him with another elite half back. We're not trying to replace Andrew Johns or Cooper Cronk. Chez's contribution to the team is, largely, to boot the ball hard down the middle of the field to the opposition fullback; defend well (when he doesn't loose his head and run up out of the line); and to be there in support when other players make a break. And to kick the occasional field goal of course. I'm sure a number of the young halves we've let go over the past decade (Nicholls, Drinkwater, Lussic etc) had the potential to provide these services at lower cost. They may have thrown less hospital passes, had less brain snaps, and been caught out of position less often.

I'm now going to hide in a hole till you run out of rocks.

Haha. Yes I’d run and hide too after making these comparisons.

 

[The Wheel]

The club must have recruited the accountant from Souffs or chooks - a contract with a coaching deal on the end of it, great stuff! Now just got to work out the injury retirement scam

 

[Tragic Eagle]

I'm kind of hard on DCE because he doesnt control games like a Cronk, Adam Reynolds, Cleary etc.

That is what i feel manly miss at crucial times. He is a jack in the box type player that plays what he sees in front of him, which can be magical at times, but again, not consistant and able to control the play when manly loses the momentum, it seems its everyones job to try and pull something off rather than control the play to allow the team to settle and gain back the momentum.

But then lets look at some of Manly's recent great #7's.

Toovey, Hasler, Blake, Gibbs, etc...they werent game management players either, only orford would fit into the game management bracket. Perhaps the before mentioned players were playing along other game management players, where DCE doesnt have this luxury.

What does this mean? **** i don't even know where Im going with this....

You hit the nail on the head. DCE can be an exciting player but the he is not a Cooper Cronk style player that is super consistent and continually managing the game, reading the game and planning it a few plays ahead. DCE is a instinctive player and is not a consistent game manager. Every team needs a game manager. Game managers are rare commodities indeed. I don't mind DCE as an assistant coach but we need to blood a new young star half back. Historically we let some our best players go towards the end of their careers because we couldn't match the money on offer to them like Fulton & Vautin. That is just of the evolution of a footy team affected by market forces. Penn needs to focus on the future generations and no get caught in a time warp mind set. We have young stars and are recruiting talented youngsters and we need to show them a pathway not one blocked by players at the end of their careers in their mid 30's. Penrith have shown over the last two seasons that it is a young man's game.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Penrith have shown over the last two seasons that it is a young man's game.

And Melbourne have shown over the last 10 years that it is a game for mature seasoned players.
As for DCE, should he be extended, sure, at what cost, not sure.
He's not immortal standard yet I have a feeling he's going to be better appreciated round here after he's gone.

 

[Scorpio]

In response.
1. Apparently it was Manly who went to Chez not the other way around. If we lost Chez who would we go and sign???
2. Other than Reynolds, Cleary and Munster who would you want in our halves? Reynolds is at Brisbane long term, put a line through Cleary and Munster will be at Storm or Dolphins.
3. Chez is an elite athlete and is in as good shape as any guy 3 or 4 years younger than him.
4. When is the last time Manly developed a #7? Chez maybe??? and who would you have in mind to develop? We have Schuster and Latu Fainu. Fainu would be what 20 or 21 when Chez retires, that seems about perfect timing.
Schuster could take over Foz in 2023 and Fainu can work his way in from the bench and filling in to start his career.

Points 1 and 2
When Melbourne lost Slater, Cronk et al... did they know they'd win a premiership with Jahrome Hughes at halfback only 3 years later?
In 2008 did we know our next premiership winning halves would be 21/22 and paid less than $500k between them?
So what if we don't know who our potential 2024/2025 halfback options are right now. We would have a lot more options with the $1.2m per season to sign a halfback plus any other position/s we needed. If DCE goes we will find someone else.
Not saying we shouldn't sign him but we should wait until the end of this current deal to make that decision on its merits.

Point 3
Yes he is in good shape now... but that doesn't mean he will always have a charmed run with injury until the end of 2025 when he will be over 36.

Point 4
People think we need someone like Nathan Cleary to win a comp but it's not necessarily true.
Melbourne won with Hughes who flies under the radar and does his job.
Sharks won with Townsend.

I don't know who our halfback options would be in 2023. A lot can happen in 2 years in NRL and even more can happen in 4 years. I just don't see why negotiating this now is a good decision.

 

[Ranga]

I’d only consider extending him for 2 years now if we could restructure the next 2 years. But I am not sure the NRL would allow that.

 

[Ranga]

The club must have recruited the accountant from Souffs or chooks - a contract with a coaching deal on the end of it, great stuff! Now just got to work out the injury retirement scam

Extending him now while he has no known injury might actually preserve the medial retirement option down the track.

 

[The better Robbo]

Points 1 and 2
When Melbourne lost Slater, Cronk et al... did they know they'd win a premiership with Jahrome Hughes at halfback only 3 years later?
In 2008 did we know our next premiership winning halves would be 21/22 and paid less than $500k between them?
So what if we don't know who our potential 2024/2025 halfback options are right now. We would have a lot more options with the $1.2m per season to sign a halfback plus any other position/s we needed. If DCE goes we will find someone else.
Not saying we shouldn't sign him but we should wait until the end of this current deal to make that decision on its merits.

Point 3
Yes he is in good shape now... but that doesn't mean he will always have a charmed run with injury until the end of 2025 when he will be over 36.

Point 4
People think we need someone like Nathan Cleary to win a comp but it's not necessarily true.
Melbourne won with Hughes who flies under the radar and does his job.
Sharks won with Townsend.

I don't know who our halfback options would be in 2023. A lot can happen in 2 years in NRL and even more can happen in 4 years. I just don't see why negotiating this now is a good decision.

The point being that we can't afford to wait. If Dolphins offer big money and we lost Chez, we could be left with nobody and that would be a disaster. Yes we'd have some coin to spend but there is not really anything of quality worth signing in the halves. We'd end up with Norman or Brooks or a couple of rookies.

 

[KNUCKLES]

In response.
1. Apparently it was Manly who went to Chez not the other way around. If we lost Chez who would we go and sign???
2. Other than Reynolds, Cleary and Munster who would you want in our halves? Reynolds is at Brisbane long term, put a line through Cleary and Munster will be at Storm or Dolphins.
3. Chez is an elite athlete and is in as good shape as any guy 3 or 4 years younger than him.
4. When is the last time Manly developed a #7? Chez maybe??? and who would you have in mind to develop? We have Schuster and Latu Fainu. Fainu would be what 20 or 21 when Chez retires, that seems about perfect timing.
Schuster could take over Foz in 2023 and Fainu can work his way in from the bench and filling in to start his career.

2 years is a long time in football.. im sure there will be other options in 2 years time. But in saying that I guess it all comes down to the money spent on the extension. With a promise with a job after football I'm hoping the club hasn't gone upwards of 500k

 

[Eagle 1]

It really is a stupid idea for the club to even consider this so far in advance.

My thoughts also Scorpio, Chez must be thinking all his Christmases have come at once. His doesn't even need a manager for this, with Manly again bending over backwards to accommodate him. Would be a good gesture by DCE to not ask for more than what he's already on, but then again Chez as a penchant for $'s...

 

[Eagle 1]

2 years is a long time in football.. im sure there will be other options in 2 years time. But in saying that I guess it all comes down to the money spent on the extension. With a promise with a job after football I'm hoping the club hasn't gone upwards of 500k

500K !!, that's crazy ridiculous money....we already have the 2 Turbos and Marty on marquee coin. A coaching role at Manly will set him up after his playing days are through, surely this is enough !!