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Could DES be thinking outside the box

Jay Eagle

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Jan 6, 2016
Messages
78
These are my thoughts but Des is also known for implementing new changes to how the game is played
(strategically) especially from an ATTACK minded strategy.
We all know his DEFENSIVE system and that works so he wont play around with that , but the attack I can see him looking to make a few changes that may indeed change the game, Now what I'm going to bring up is not entirely new but when you have the players in a team that could implement this then I think its possible.

1- T. Trbojevic
2- A. Hopoate
3- D. Walker
4- M. Suli
5- R. Garrick
6- J. Schuster
7- D. Cherry- Evans
8- A. Fonua-Blake
9- ?? ( M Fainu) or whoever Des puts there I will have faith in Des getting the best out of that player.
10- M. Taupau
11- J. Thompson
12- C.Sironen
13- J.Trbojevic

14- T. Paseka
15- J. Gosiewski
16- S. Keppie
17- T. Sipley

So for the possible strategy and why I selected the team above.

We play 2 fullbacks ( as I said its not new but it would be new in an NRL "team" enviroment, it was only possible at state of origin level because of the players available and they are all elite players in their club teams, so having two fullbacks happened and Freddy was smart enough and brave enough to look at it)

I think young Hoppa and Turbo can play the same role, they could both play fullback in attack, even going as far as working together to continuously swap the side of the field that each of them is attacking from or working together to create numbers on an edge.
And if Suli is at centre he becomes the man that pushes wide and becomes a defacto winger at times ( Parker could also easily play this role as we know), giving either Turbo or Hoppa opportunities to attack through the centres or even wrapping around as wingers.

Having 2 fullbacks also opens up the door to potentially attacking up the middle with either an inside ball play or playing out the back to either one of these guys.

Imagine being a defending team, normally mostly looking at where the oppositions fullback is coming from, they see one guy and hes coming through the middle for an inside play ( Turbo and Jake love this play) but the defense has time to adjust and make the tackle, but if they suddenly see Jake, DCE, Schuster or Nas with the ball and two fullbacks coming through on different sides of the ruck then this causes problems.
and a bad read in defense causes points to be scored.

Even if both fullbacks come through on the same side of the ruck the defence needs to think quick, it could be a short ball to Tom or or a ball out the back to Hoppa ( depending on who is where at the time).

And why do I think this will work, because both these guys have what defences cant handle SPEED and DECEPTION, not to mention skill and football brains. you CANT tackle a guy who finds space and has speed on his side ( Ala Snake).

In defence Tommy just falls back into the fullback role and does the number counting and defensive organisation while young Hoppa defends on the wing.

Like I said both players have real football brains they know the game, they make time for themselves because they have that ability and this is why they , together can make this work.

This also allows us to carry 4 forwards on the bench as we will need a good go forward set by them to provide the platform of time and space for our ball players to utilise our attacking weapons, which no longer just consists of a center either side of the field with a winger outside of them and a chiming in fullback, but we now have all that normal play with the bonus of two players that can fill the same role on either side of the field or as a combination through the middle (we saw this first hand with Tedesco and Turbo).

and as for the forwards on the bench I left out a couple that most may say should be there and they will, thats the beauty of the squad we now have, they will all get game time and play important roles, Im a real fan of Waddell and found it hard not to put him in my side but for this system to really work we need a forward pack dominationg the ruck, if he lacks anything in his game its that aspect when you put him up against the 4 guys I have on the bench.

And if our forwards are dominating like we all know thay can, not only does the two fullbacks work but the other ace up our sleeve J Schuster... Yeah hes a kid and yeah hes untested at NRL level but with a dominat forward pack, options in attack with both inside and out the back plays along with the ability to still use the standard backline plays this kid could be our new Cliffy (but with a little more speed..lol)
 

MuzztheEagle

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Des is always thinking outside the box!!!
But really, I don't think attacking positions have looked anything like they did when the numbering system was created. Attacking structures are far more ad lib than ever and players may even have more than one role in an attacking structure. E.g. If the fullback moves up and collects the ball then another player will position himself behind as a second fullback - the same as a second dummy half would when the hooker has a run. There isn't much reason anymore to keep players in rigid positions - except to provide an attacking structure to work in. In that sense I think there are fixed attacking players and dynamic ones - just like there are set plays and ad lib plays. The main trick is getting the balance right.
My only concern with your team list is the addition of Schuster and Hoppa make it a very young side. Plus they both have zero NRL experience. Who knows if they will live up to the hype and if they can manage the defensive workload. I expect they will be starting at Blacktown and will probably get a start when we have injuries and rep dutie (provided they can do well at cup level). It is probably unwise to build a team and the majority of its attacking plays and structure around untested players.
 

robbiea

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I dont think Waddell drops out.
Des has some tough decisions.
 

winnyason

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Oct 9, 2011
Messages
2,252
We have best front row in comp along with best 7 and imo Tom Neely best 1.
I don't get paseka love he to me simply not done enough with chances, keepie was very impressive and has very good tacking technique. I can't see Jorge being dropped.
If fainu does not return I see a 2 hooker rotation with croker and cust.
 

Jay Eagle

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Joined
Jan 6, 2016
Messages
78
This sort of speculation is what ends up being published by desperate media.
Yeah, agree and its now been pointed out that the Mole has written something along those lines.

i was just reading through various posts and the thought came to mind so I thought I would share it and get some conversations started... it is the boring off season!
 

Technical Coach

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Joined
Jul 25, 2010
Messages
2,772
Des is always thinking outside the box!!!
But really, I don't think attacking positions have looked anything like they did when the numbering system was created. Attacking structures are far more ad lib than ever and players may even have more than one role in an attacking structure. E.g. If the fullback moves up and collects the ball then another player will position himself behind as a second fullback - the same as a second dummy half would when the hooker has a run. There isn't much reason anymore to keep players in rigid positions - except to provide an attacking structure to work in. In that sense I think there are fixed attacking players and dynamic ones - just like there are set plays and ad lib plays. The main trick is getting the balance right.
My only concern with your team list is the addition of Schuster and Hoppa make it a very young side. Plus they both have zero NRL experience. Who knows if they will live up to the hype and if they can manage the defensive workload. I expect they will be starting at Blacktown and will probably get a start when we have injuries and rep dutie (provided they can do well at cup level). It is probably unwise to build a team and the majority of its attacking plays and structure around untested players.
In all professional team sports movement off the ball and increased skill levels across the entire team are key factors to the biggest initial improvements in output efficiency, combine that with modern analytics and there are so many options to explore.(nothing new but professional sport in Australia is still in the infancy years relative to overseas)

In recent times(being the last 10-15yrs) the Storm took structure and analysis to new levels, Manly added their twist with more power, more ball movement and more offloads, the Roosters,Souths and Cowboys added more direct size and power plays, the last two years the Roosters have added even more attacking flair and skill around the park.

I want to see teams go beyond just having adlib second phase play as the basic simple second attacking option.

What i mean is normally what happens is you get an offload and play in an adlib/instinctive manner, hoping you either have more numbers after sucking in defenders into the tackle or you just work the defensive line over with so many offloads you induce fatigue and openings.

What is happening many times is you get the offload and it is becoming an "inefficient" attacking play, running around in circles or going backwards with no real attacking idea or potency after the offload, it sometimes even helps the defensive line regroup and easy to contain the adlib play.

I want to see set structured plays off the back of offloads, yes it is hard to predict when an offload will occur but you can improve ball and hand position during a tackle to increase offload possibilities. I want teams to be on alert that when an offload happens a group attacking mentality pounces around the ad lib player who receives the offload.(it happens sometimes but in a very limited way)

It gets boring to watch hit up after hit up then the random good offload occurs but half the team is asleep with one adlib player and one person pushing up being the only predictable options, or the player receiving the offload is just crabbing around hoping for another player to be alert and hit a line---or dies with the ball crabbing----or passes sideways to a flat footed runner and that player gets tackled further back from where the initial offload was made.(once again i understand this can help exhaust the defensive line eventually but there are too many stoppages in play these days to really take advantage of this)
 
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We have many options from 6 back to 1, with the exception of Jorge.

Don't want to drop him as he gives invaluable metres off the line and can be nearly unstoppable from 8 meters out. It's what's in between that's the problem as he heads into his twilight playing years.

However we can get at least 10 good hit-ups each game if he came off the bench in the middle 3rd, a time during which we struggle without Taupau and/or AFB. Honestly, our bench forwards are not strong or determined enough to cover the loss those two.

As has been said here before, players no longer play to the traditional role of the numbers on their backs - they all can adapt mid game to what is required. Who Jorge would replace does not matter as long as the structure is in place and practiced at training.

I suggested last year that Jake could act as dummy half (still a centre forward) if the 9 had to have a rest. If that was the plan, Sirro would play 1st receiver instead of Jake, giving Jorge two avenues to do his punishing runs. No one can doubt Jorge's commitment to defence.

We have become stereotyped in attack - a new approach can work wonders.
 

Nambawan

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Apr 3, 2015
Messages
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We have best front row in comp along with best 7 and imo Tom Neely best 1.
I don't get paseka love he to me simply not done enough with chances, keepie was very impressive and has very good tacking technique. I can't see Jorge being dropped.
If fainu does not return I see a 2 hooker rotation with croker and cust.
IMO Taufua is a goner - far too slow and error prone. Can.t afford his match losing mistakes any more
 

The Who

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Jun 29, 2010
Messages
11,095
I don't think Jorge makes any more mistakes on average than any other NRL winger.
He's great at hitting the ball up and is a powerful finisher. But he lacks the ability in the air that is an essential part of a winger's skills these days.
Mind you, those who are suggesting Suli should replace him are really swapping like-for-like. Suli is a younger version of Jorge and has the same shortcomings.
 

winnyason

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Joined
Oct 9, 2011
Messages
2,252
IMO Taufua is a goner - far too slow and error prone. Can.t afford his match losing mistakes any more
Yeah I just can see him being dropped he a very loyal clubman and players like Jorge but hey who knows. I agree his brain fades with grubbers teams often target him.
 

maxta

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Des has always been the unconventional coach, but adding Schuster or Hoppa to the side is purely based on ability and the fact he may realise they are too talented for NSW Cup...but it will come down to performance at Training, Trials and of course general attitude between now and game 1
 

Stevo

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Mar 26, 2010
Messages
5,072
If Schuster starts the season you can guarantee Hoppa won't. Not that i think he is ready to start over Jorge anwyay.
 

cherry_poppins

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Joined
May 5, 2013
Messages
2,685
These are my thoughts but Des is also known for implementing new changes to how the game is played
(strategically) especially from an ATTACK minded strategy.
We all know his DEFENSIVE system and that works so he wont play around with that , but the attack I can see him looking to make a few changes that may indeed change the game, Now what I'm going to bring up is not entirely new but when you have the players in a team that could implement this then I think its possible.

1- T. Trbojevic
2- A. Hopoate
3- D. Walker
4- M. Suli
5- R. Garrick
6- J. Schuster
7- D. Cherry- Evans
8- A. Fonua-Blake
9- ?? ( M Fainu) or whoever Des puts there I will have faith in Des getting the best out of that player.
10- M. Taupau
11- J. Thompson
12- C.Sironen
13- J.Trbojevic

14- T. Paseka
15- J. Gosiewski
16- S. Keppie
17- T. Sipley

So for the possible strategy and why I selected the team above.

We play 2 fullbacks ( as I said its not new but it would be new in an NRL "team" enviroment, it was only possible at state of origin level because of the players available and they are all elite players in their club teams, so having two fullbacks happened and Freddy was smart enough and brave enough to look at it)

I think young Hoppa and Turbo can play the same role, they could both play fullback in attack, even going as far as working together to continuously swap the side of the field that each of them is attacking from or working together to create numbers on an edge.
And if Suli is at centre he becomes the man that pushes wide and becomes a defacto winger at times ( Parker could also easily play this role as we know), giving either Turbo or Hoppa opportunities to attack through the centres or even wrapping around as wingers.

Having 2 fullbacks also opens up the door to potentially attacking up the middle with either an inside ball play or playing out the back to either one of these guys.

Imagine being a defending team, normally mostly looking at where the oppositions fullback is coming from, they see one guy and hes coming through the middle for an inside play ( Turbo and Jake love this play) but the defense has time to adjust and make the tackle, but if they suddenly see Jake, DCE, Schuster or Nas with the ball and two fullbacks coming through on different sides of the ruck then this causes problems.
and a bad read in defense causes points to be scored.

Even if both fullbacks come through on the same side of the ruck the defence needs to think quick, it could be a short ball to Tom or or a ball out the back to Hoppa ( depending on who is where at the time).

And why do I think this will work, because both these guys have what defences cant handle SPEED and DECEPTION, not to mention skill and football brains. you CANT tackle a guy who finds space and has speed on his side ( Ala Snake).

In defence Tommy just falls back into the fullback role and does the number counting and defensive organisation while young Hoppa defends on the wing.

Like I said both players have real football brains they know the game, they make time for themselves because they have that ability and this is why they , together can make this work.

This also allows us to carry 4 forwards on the bench as we will need a good go forward set by them to provide the platform of time and space for our ball players to utilise our attacking weapons, which no longer just consists of a center either side of the field with a winger outside of them and a chiming in fullback, but we now have all that normal play with the bonus of two players that can fill the same role on either side of the field or as a combination through the middle (we saw this first hand with Tedesco and Turbo).

and as for the forwards on the bench I left out a couple that most may say should be there and they will, thats the beauty of the squad we now have, they will all get game time and play important roles, Im a real fan of Waddell and found it hard not to put him in my side but for this system to really work we need a forward pack dominationg the ruck, if he lacks anything in his game its that aspect when you put him up against the 4 guys I have on the bench.

And if our forwards are dominating like we all know thay can, not only does the two fullbacks work but the other ace up our sleeve J Schuster... Yeah hes a kid and yeah hes untested at NRL level but with a dominat forward pack, options in attack with both inside and out the back plays along with the ability to still use the standard backline plays this kid could be our new Cliffy (but with a little more speed..lol)
Lol what? An untried junior is going to take the place of a club legend

You're delusional
 

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