Brett Stewart Pet Play Technical Flaws.

[MK Eagle]

Hayne has more passing assists in one year than Brett has in his entire career---seriously some people get caught up in this Brett is God and has no faults mentality and when i mention a weakness it's blown out of proportion as if to say "i don't rate Brett in any capacity".

" Just because he doesn't do that doesn't mean he can't." If he could do it no coach would prevent him from showing it. In some games yes you could say he takes a backward step to allow the players paid to create opportunities to do their job and not cramp their style------ but even so if he possessed a more rounded passing game it would have shown beyond the freak pass highlight reel.

I could care less if he did have this talent Brett is one of the best fullbacks in the game my gripe is with fans overstating his abilities in a God like fashion where he suddenly develops skills purely on his name.

TC - as Hamster pointed out Haynes role is very different to Snakes so to compare assists is irrelevant. We have the best halves in the comp so Snake can play his natural game chiming in when it suits him from fullback, obviously changes the assist stats - something you should already know. Hayne plays a halves role because he is the only player with the flair to create points & is the ONLY go to player they have, obviously why they signed Sandow & Roberts - to add to attack.
As for passing ability - Hayne is very hit & miss often throwing a speculater in hope whereas Snakes passes are consistently on target & he does this at full throttle - Much more difficult than Hayne at 1st reciever ambling at the fringe of the ruck & throwing his cut out pass in hope often at the touch judge.
Anyways TC - stubborn as you are I usually see some merit in your Threads but this is a beaten horse that is out of excuses.

 

[Dan79]

You almost have to compare the different types of fullbacks rather than all in one bundle. You have the Haynes, gidleys who have to shoulder some of the halves work. So they throw more passes, not necessarily better passes. I know gidley has moved out of the back, now closer to a 9/16 than a 5/8. Next you have the Barbas and bowens that are straight finishes. Rarely throw any passes score bucketloads of trys. Brett does a lot of both, I think he has the balance pretty right. If he threw more passes he would score less trys. Then we would be complaining. Let the halves throw more passes and set up players running angles (like Brett). when you need a freaky pass because the fullback is not going to make the line, then watch and smile because you know Brett will throw it and land it. May have seen one of those last year

 

[The Eagle]

Stewart in attack > The rest

 

[Technical Coach]

First of all lets get the comments i've made in context and order during this thread.

1)My original post had nothing to do with Brett Stewarts ability or putting down his talent it was a general observation on the running lines he uses in a certain play and a lack of genuine shorter flat options the play offers. This does not mean i'm having a go at Brett as the line he runs is due to a combination of factors from the overall setup of the play, lack of options and too much depth in some cases---it was a general point that the future of the play needs tweaking.

2)Then all the posts about how many tries have we scored from this play and how dare i be critical of Brett in any manner start flooding the thread as if i'm showing a lack of respect to his abilities.

3)I then had an opposing view on a players abilities and stated them in a polite manner without having a go at people with an alternative view on him(which is fine we all have opinions) and it was not just based around Ben at fullback he has an all-round game i like and can fill many positions with the skill set he has shown---obviously Hasler felt the same way in purchasing him and probably having a big factor of bringing him back this year in some capacity.

4)I then had an opposing view again on people stating Brett has an exceptional passing game which i believe is over-stating his abilities in this area. To me it does not look natural both sides with a weak right side pass also evident.

I could care less if he had the skill or not it is not necessary for Brett to possess these skills with other ball players around it's more important he runs off players with exceptional ball playing which he obviously does better than the rest backed up by his remarkably high try scoring rate.

Comparing any players passing abilities is not about the amounts of passes they use or the role they have in the team Dan---the little glimpses i've seen of Brett in relation to general passing skill technique and positioning of players are not worthy of being called "exceptional" he has shown some nice in the moment freaky passes for the highlights reel but you don't have to possess a passing game to create those moments. Cliff lyons could not do what Brett has shown in those instances and we all know Cliff was a great ball player. Cliffy's right side technique was more limited than his left( but he was still effective on both sides in setting up hole runners) and Cliffy had many wild passes in him for a long time in the same manner as Jarryd Hayne.

I'm not rating Hayne ahead of Brett before people start twisting my comments around again---i would take Brett ahead of Jarryd any day of the week but lets not over-state his abilities due to his name and status at the club.

 

[Technical Coach]

Hayne has more passing assists in one year than Brett has in his entire career---seriously some people get caught up in this Brett is God and has no faults mentality and when i mention a weakness it's blown out of proportion as if to say "i don't rate Brett in any capacity".

" Just because he doesn't do that doesn't mean he can't." If he could do it no coach would prevent him from showing it. In some games yes you could say he takes a backward step to allow the players paid to create opportunities to do their job and not cramp their style------ but even so if he possessed a more rounded passing game it would have shown beyond the freak pass highlight reel.

I could care less if he did have this talent Brett is one of the best fullbacks in the game my gripe is with fans overstating his abilities in a God like fashion where he suddenly develops skills purely on his name.

TC - as Hamster pointed out Haynes role is very different to Snakes so to compare assists is irrelevant. We have the best halves in the comp so Snake can play his natural game chiming in when it suits him from fullback, obviously changes the assist stats - something you should already know. Hayne plays a halves role because he is the only player with the flair to create points & is the ONLY go to player they have, obviously why they signed Sandow & Roberts - to add to attack.
As for passing ability - Hayne is very hit & miss often throwing a speculater in hope whereas Snakes passes are consistently on target & he does this at full throttle - Much more difficult than Hayne at 1st reciever ambling at the fringe of the ruck & throwing his cut out pass in hope often at the touch judge.
Anyways TC - stubborn as you are I usually see some merit in your Threads but this is a beaten horse that is out of excuses.

First of all what excuses am i making just stating my point of view and not seeking to change others alternative views unlike the style of most people who post here.(i've never replied to others saying they are wrong or their opinions are crap just state why i disagree)

Secondly why do i have to change my point of view----basically what your saying is everyone else is correct and i should fall in line---if that is being stubborn so be it.

I honestly don't see why people are rating B.Stewart as exceptional in the passing stakes---G.Stewart has a more rounded passing skill set than Brett minus the freakishness---if freakish passes in your mind and the rest of the forum members constitutes being exceptional so be it i hold a differing more broad opinion before i label someone with that tag.

Damn i can't wait for the F1 season to start need a more technical area to ply my trade of dribble.

 

[Rex]

why do people here think spotting weaknesses and flaws and commenting on them is a negative outlook.

Seeing you asked TC ...

Constant seeking of flaws is the habit of the lower brain. Just like an untrained dog will be reactive to all sorts of (false) threats, without awareness our brains become reactive to habitually perceived (false) threats. When a threat is perceived hormones are pumped into our bodies readying us for fight/flight or sometimes freeze.

These hormones shut down our higher order thinking. In the wild, where genuine threats may exist, this is functional. We act rather than pondering. In modern societies we have no opportunity for release of these hormones. Plus the perception of false threats easily becomes a (dysfunctional) habit. This is the genesis of stress. Human's advanced ability to make complex associations, and to communicate, means this dysfunctional stress is easily habituated, extended, and transmitted.

When a dog is trained by an expert, the first thing the expert focuses on is helping the dog to chill out to situations that the dog is (falsely) perceiving as a threat. The same applies to experts in human nature when helping people to become more functional. One of these methods used is to express things in positive terms, rather than negative terms.

Either the higher brain or the lower brain is in charge. Under perceived threat the lower brain automatically takes over. This is a survival mechanism. Positivity helps ensure that our higher order thinking remains in charge.

 

[jbb/james]

sic em Rex

 

[Fro]

How many times did this play work yesterday??

I know i'm going to cop it for saying this but maybe TC has a point?

he (TC) doesnt need to be so verbose in putting it across, but all teams know he (Stewart) is going to do it, and they are sitting on him.

I enjoyed the try where stewart switched across as a dummy runner leaving Matai (I think) between 2 defenders and he scored.

The commentators rabbited on about the pass putting him on the outside shoulder yada yada (which it did) but Stewarts decoy angle also took the attention of a defender.

to me that showed that they are at least looking at new options.

I suspect the B Stewart 2nd man run for the corner will not be seen much this year, simply because it has lost its effectiveness.

 

[jbb/james]

Any move should be regarded for its overall effectiveness , not a few random snapshots.Also not necessarily for its direct result, it can also be a very good decoy when he doesnt receive the ball

Once yesterday when they tried this he looked for his outside man but he was injured and in back play

To fully appreciate and move, you cant watch it on TV and make an informed call. You have to be at the ground to fully understand the impact. Brett lurking 2 plays earlier , and calling for the ball, or pointing people into position or calling for the ball to be sent left can have as much impact on the game as the move itself

Anyone with any real understanding of sport will realise so much of the game is mental, and what is done in the lead up has just as much impact as the result.

Also its rare any move can be set up like a chess board on the field, as a fullback , brett also has a job as a defender and has to position himself appropriately in case someone drops the ball before he receives it.

Then the experts would be questioning his positional play

---

calling the move, setting up the move, drawing the winger in, making the inside men nervous, and keep them from spreading as quickly and bombing the winger is just as much as part of the move itself.Or similar.

How do we measure that success ?

 

[Chip and Chase]

I doubt we'd ever get access to this information, but I'd love to see Brett's sectional sprint times pre and post injuries. My gut feel is that he has lost a yard of pace, which makes the difference between squeezing through the gap or getting outside your man, and being pushed in the slide and then crowding your outside men.

 

[MK Eagle]

I doubt we'd ever get access to this information, but I'd love to see Brett's sectional sprint times pre and post injuries. My gut feel is that he has lost a yard of pace, which makes the difference between squeezing through the gap or getting outside your man, and being pushed in the slide and then crowding your outside men.

Unfortuately had that same gut feeling yesterday & it was the dif between the winger coming in or staying out as it was clear the NZ centre had Brett covered closing down that key moment of confusion for the defence.
Still happy with the move & it seems Tooves has allowed a little more flambouyance which will naturally create more options as the season progresses both with set plays & in general play..

 

[Technical Coach]

The play is fine when your not overly reliant on it and it's part of a package to set up variation plays---it's dangerous when the telegraphed play looks like it's happening and an option play is used---adding more options will make this attacking play more effective.

In the past few years it's basically evolved into a safe option when Foran runs to the line and his flat options are a no go or have over-run the play---it allows him to release the ball and not get tackled with it.

The Ch9 commentators over complimented the Foran pass in the third try---it was a beautiful spiralling pass no doubt out in front of Matai and pushing him to the outside of the defender but it was more than just the pass that made the play. Actually the surprise element of the pass being released earlier than normal caught the outside back defenders napping---it has been used before in a similar vein.

Foran usually takes a few more steps and ball plays closer to the line allowing in some instances outside defenders a little more time to get into the face of outside attackers. The quick release and Matai going from Stewarts inside shoulder and crossing over as the outside attacker paused the defenders just enough combined with the early release to get Matai in between the defenders---it was poor defending combined with good attack---they had the numbers but were caught flat footed.

I've noticed during the WCC and this game Foran "at times" is playing more central in both halves---clearly Toovey is having an influence and it's good to see this early in the season.

 

[Utility Player]

4)I then had an opposing view again on people stating Brett has an exceptional passing game which i believe is over-stating his abilities in this area. To me it does not look natural both sides with a weak right side pass also evident.

Jason Taylor seems to disagree TC.

The accompanying picture shows Stewart at it again last week against the Warriors as he set up Manly's first try. In the picture, Stewart is just about to catch the ball, which was passed to him by Daly Cherry-Evans as the Warriors centre Jerome Ropati closes in. Even though Ropati is only a few metres away from Stewart, with the fullback yet to catch the ball, Stewart was still able to catch and pass the ball to Jamie Lyon, out of shot on Stewart's right, before Ropati tackled him. Lyon then drew in Warriors winger Manu Vatuvei before passing to Manly winger David Williams, also out of shot, who scored in the corner. Stewart's ability to catch and pass at speed in these situations is superb and it constantly catches defenders out.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/tigers-seeking-to-curb-strikeforce-stewart-20120308-1unf2.html#ixzz1oZIkP4Ag

 

[Stevo]

classic

 

[EagleFromMay1967]

http://stats.rleague.com/rl/scorers/overall_tr1.html

Nathan Blacklock
Seas   Team   Pld (W-D-L)   T   G   FG   Pts  
1995 Sydney City 5 (2-0-3) 1 4
1997 St George 1 (0-0-1)
1998 St George 22 (12-1-9) 20 80
1999 St George Illawarra 26 (16-0-10) 24 96
2000 St George Illawarra 26 (12-0-14) 25 12/17 (70.59%) 124
2001 St George Illawarra 28 (13-2-13) 27 2/5 (40.00%) 112
2002 St George Illawarra 9 (2-1-6) 3 0/1 (0.00%) 12
2003 St George Illawarra 12 (5-0-7) 14 56
2004 St George Illawarra 13 (8-0-5) 7 28
Totals 85.21% 142 (70-4-68) 121 14/23 (60.87%) 512

Brett Stewart
Seas   Team   Pld (W-D-L)   T   G   FG   Pts  
2003 Manly 1 (0-0-1) only 1 match here.
2004 Manly 17 (8-0-9) 14 56
2005 Manly 24 (12-0-12) 16 64
2006 Manly 21 (12-0-9) 21 84
2007 Manly 25 (20-0-5) 19 76
2008 Manly 24 (17-0-7) 22 88
2009 Manly 5 (4-0-1) 6 24
2010 Manly 1 (0-0-1) only 1 match here.
2011 Manly 20 (17-0-3) 15 60 put both these matches into 2009 and effectively he's played 7 season
Strike Rate: 81.88% 138 (90-0-48) 113 452


Steve Renouf
Seas   Team   Pld (W-D-L)   T   G   FG   Pts  
1989 Brisbane 10 (3-0-7)
1990 Brisbane 4 (2-0-2) 2 8
1991 Brisbane 20 (11-0-9) 15 60
1992 Brisbane 23 (19-0-4) 12 48
1993 Brisbane 18 (14-0-4) 16 64
1994 Brisbane 21 (13-1-7) 23 92
1995 Brisbane 14 (9-0-5) 15 60
1996 Brisbane 22 (17-0-5) 19 76
1997 Brisbane 15 (12-1-2) 14 56
1998 Brisbane 26 (20-1-5) 20 80
1999 Brisbane 10 (6-1-3) 6 24
Totals 77.60% 183 (126-4-53) 142 568

Reg Gasnier

Seas   Team   Pld (W-D-L)   T   G   FG   Pts  
1959 St George 13 39
1960 St George 25 75
1961 St George 10 1 32
1962 St George 15 2 49
1963 St George 24 12 96
1964 St George 18 4 62
1965 St George 10 1 32
1966 St George ? 1 3 obviously only played 1 or two matches in 66
1967 St George 11 33 effectively played 8 seasons
Totals 69.02% 184 127 20 421 St G made it into the GF in most of these years so lets say 23 matches per season

Timana Tahu

Seas   Team   Pld (W-D-L)   T   G   FG   Pts  
1999 Newcastle 3 (1-0-2) 1 4
2000 Newcastle 26 (14-1-11) 20 80
2001 Newcastle 25 (15-1-9) 18 2/2 (100.00%) 76
2002 Newcastle 21 (15-0-6) 21 84
2003 Newcastle 14 (10-0-4) 14 56
2004 Newcastle 8 (4-0-4) 8 32
2005 Parramatta 19 (11-0-8) 10 40
2006 Parramatta 9 (3-0-6) 3 12
2007 Parramatta 18 (9-0-9) 7 0/1 (0.00%) 28
2010 Parramatta 17 (7-0-10) 5 20
2011 Penrith 7 (2-0-5) 3 12
Totals 65.87% 167 (91-2-74) 110 2/3 (66.67%) 444


Billy Slater
Seas   Team   Pld (W-D-L)   T   G   FG   Pts  
2003 Melbourne 26 (16-0-10) 19 76
2004 Melbourne 22 (12-0-10) 14 56
2005 Melbourne 21 (12-0-9) 20 80
2006 Melbourne 15 (12-0-3) 5 20
2007 Melbourne 23 (20-0-3) 12 48
2008 Melbourne 24 (19-0-5) 14 56
2009 Melbourne 26 (16-1-9) 18 72
2010 Melbourne 22 (13-0-9) 10 40
2011 Melbourne 24 (19-0-5) 12 48
Totals 61.08% 203 (139-1-63) 124 496

 

[Technical Coach]

4)I then had an opposing view again on people stating Brett has an exceptional passing game which i believe is over-stating his abilities in this area. To me it does not look natural both sides with a weak right side pass also evident.

Jason Taylor seems to disagree TC.

The accompanying picture shows Stewart at it again last week against the Warriors as he set up Manly's first try. In the picture, Stewart is just about to catch the ball, which was passed to him by Daly Cherry-Evans as the Warriors centre Jerome Ropati closes in. Even though Ropati is only a few metres away from Stewart, with the fullback yet to catch the ball, Stewart was still able to catch and pass the ball to Jamie Lyon, out of shot on Stewart's right, before Ropati tackled him. Lyon then drew in Warriors winger Manu Vatuvei before passing to Manly winger David Williams, also out of shot, who scored in the corner. Stewart's ability to catch and pass at speed in these situations is superb and it constantly catches defenders out.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/tigers-seeking-to-curb-strikeforce-stewart-20120308-1unf2.html#ixzz1oZIkP4Ag

Once again you guys just don't get it or lack comprehension skills----it was a catch and pass going through the hands with only one real option and short time to execute this is a talent Brett executes well. Exceptional on it's own does not justify calling Brett an exceptional passer of the ball.

I've seen Hoppa and even the "nuffy" Farrar execute great catch and pass plays of the same or even higher quality--- now do we label them all exceptional passes of the ball. Lets save the exceptional for the players who deserve it otherwise every second player has an exceptional pass.

What's with the stats has no relevance to the subject---everyone knows we have a high win ratio with Brett in the team. Like i said he has such a broad range of talents from speed to positioning to composure under pressure etc etc--- i just hate people who glorify players and start adding to their skill set---next we will hear Brett had a superb side-step after he retires.

---

4)I then had an opposing view again on people stating Brett has an exceptional passing game which i believe is over-stating his abilities in this area. To me it does not look natural both sides with a weak right side pass also evident.

Jason Taylor seems to disagree TC.

The accompanying picture shows Stewart at it again last week against the Warriors as he set up Manly's first try. In the picture, Stewart is just about to catch the ball, which was passed to him by Daly Cherry-Evans as the Warriors centre Jerome Ropati closes in. Even though Ropati is only a few metres away from Stewart, with the fullback yet to catch the ball, Stewart was still able to catch and pass the ball to Jamie Lyon, out of shot on Stewart's right, before Ropati tackled him. Lyon then drew in Warriors winger Manu Vatuvei before passing to Manly winger David Williams, also out of shot, who scored in the corner. Stewart's ability to catch and pass at speed in these situations is superb and it constantly catches defenders out.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/tigers-seeking-to-curb-strikeforce-stewart-20120308-1unf2.html#ixzz1oZIkP4Ag

No he is complimenting Brett's ability to chime in and execute catch and pass plays under defensive pressure--- not calling him an exceptional passer.

 

[Napper]

Nuffy farrah. Hahahaha