Blow out scores

[Mark from Brisbane]

This is why our form is so dangerous. V’landys has shown with NSW Racing and in the NRL so far nothing is off the table. The weak pussies like Greenberg are a thing of the past.

Team gets weak crowds, weak membership etc then I’m sure the NRL would love a no bye season in 2023.
Be crazy to underestimate the risk we face right now.

@Mitch said a few days ago not to worry but I agree with you , potentially a bad year or two and we could be well gone on the next TV round of bidding.

 

[susan]

That's all well and good V'Landys.

Bit we have completely changed the fabric of the game overnight, with zero notice.

Clubs have planned rosters and contracts to individuals that are now not suited to the touch footy.

Yes but the good ones adapt quickly. Ricky saw it coming and ditched his log forwards even before the rules were introduced.All the top teams have speed to burn and are promoting youth to capitalise. Meanwhile we do the opposite.

As much as I’d rather somewhere in the middle between wrestle and six again ,the simple fact is It’s not going back to the old days so we need to catch up quickly. Complaining won’t save the club. Your average lounge lizard knows what the new rules require. Time our club did too.

 

[Mitch]

@Mitch said a few days ago not to worry but I agree with you , potentially a bad year or two and we could be well gone on the next TV round of bidding.

I just cannot see a reason why PVL would lobby so hard for upgrades, with Brookvale at the top of the tree, to them turn around and ship us off. It makes no sense.

This argument comes about whenever we are in a large slump, at times where things have previously been just as bad in the background.

 

[PONTIAN SEA EAGLE]

frigen blowout scores have kept us last we could have been winless yet still up the ladder.

 

[Brookie Bob]

It certainly proves that there is not the advantage to muscling your way up the field anymore that there was in the past. It's all well and good hitting the ball at speed off a short, flat pass from dummy half - but that's negated if you can't get to your feet to play the ball quickly again.
The trend for props 3 to 5 years ago was to be 'big'.......be 6'5", and weigh between 110Kgs and 120kgs or more, and smash your way up field. Now - it's moving to 107 kgs (again) - but only if you have decent foot speed, and are (a) strong enough not to get stuck like a turtle on your back after a tackle and (b) have flexibility to bounce up and play the ball as fast as you can. (I can't count the amount of times I've seen a Manly player sacrifice a few extra meters 'push' up the field in the hope of a quick play the ball - I'm sure they are coached this way - I don't like it).

Your smaller players (IE hooker, maybe halves) now have to be kings of explosive sprint speed over 20 meters (and willing to do it) to get the defense back pedaling. I've only seen Foran do this consistently so far this year. We're not quick in the middle third of the field, so we create no space for our outside backs and we're easy pickings.

Let's think of our forwards and how quickly (note I didn't say 'powerfully') they can take the ball up. Marty - slowly, Jake - slowly, Boyle - slowly, Sirro - slowly. Davey, Aloiai, Paseka - quicker, hit the ball at speed, show promise. Gojetski - used to hit the ball at greater speed, now looks injured and a bit afraid of getting hurt, if I'm honest. Sipley - sometimes quickly sometimes slowly - depends how 'gassed' he is. Schmole was the big smokey - hopefully we get to see him in firsts this year to see how he compares on this aspect.

Croker - usually too slow out of dummy half when he does run. Cust - that's how to do it! Croker is actually bigger than Cust, but Cust makes more breaks because of his speed from a standing start. Both of them throw too many 'harbor bridge' passes from dummy half for my liking, though. I thought that the off season was to work on service from dummy half? Particularly as both are really halves and not hookers? Des - hello??

 

[susan]

I just cannot see a reason why PVL would lobby so hard for upgrades, with Brookvale at the top of the tree, to them turn around and ship us off. It makes no sense.

This argument comes about whenever we are in a large slump, at times where things have previously been just as bad in the background.

Isn’t it going to be used for Waratahs , soccer etc Mitch as well? I don’t really follow it.

 

[Mitch]

Isn’t it going to be used for Waratahs , soccer etc Mitch as well? I don’t really follow it.

There will likely be some games there sporadically but the Waratahs and Sydney FC etc will be predominately out of the newly developed SFS once it is finished mate.

The only full time organisation to be playing out of Brookvale post the COE construction will be Manly. The club will also be pushing for a team in the Women’s NRL with the upgraded facilities.

With Manly being the only option for ongoing use of the COE, I don’t see it being constructed if there was any chance of being relocated or license revoked in the short to medium term.

 

[susan]

There will likely be some games there sporadically but the Waratahs and Sydney FC etc will be predominately out of the newly developed SFS once it is finished mate.

The only full time organisation to be playing out of Brookvale post the COE construction will be Manly. The club will also be pushing for a team in the Women’s NRL with the upgraded facilities.

With Manly being the only option for ongoing use of the COE, I don’t see it being constructed if there was any chance of being relocated or license revoked in the short to medium term.

Thanks Mitch. Has to be a help for sure. Cheers

 

[Brisbane Tragic]

No hint of touch footy with the panthers, they tackle their backsides off and hit way above their weight, it’s not the rules that’s ruining the game, the sides languishing at the bottom have and are failing to adapt, even if you consider the sudden rule changes, the top level teams have been working their game over for some time, by that I mean, increasing their speed and endurance, balancing their sides with high minute players, recruiting to support the development of those concepts, sure they may have more money, but I don’t think that’s 100% it, I’ve said this before, Parra have trimmed both their starting props down over the off season, searching for extra speed, bigger minutes and being able to stay competitive for longer periods of the game, these are small things to the naked eye that provide big performance gains to teams that are constantly searching for and implementing ways to improve. It’s all about professionalism and unfortunately we haven’t adapted in that department very well, this stings, but we still have a culture of filling our coaching and staff roles with a jobs for the boys type approach, only manly people or manly players understand our culture type rubbish, might of been so in the past, but as we keep mentioning change is a constant, those clubs that seek to constantly evolve their level of professionalism to move with or ahead of the changes are reaping the benefits of that approach, we need to seriously consider concentrating on our own short comings before blaming the game, the rules, the admin whatever, just face the facts, the truths and get on with improving every aspect of our football club, because we are just simply not keeping up.

Sorry mate - the current game is about quickness and fitness - just my view. Very few players have any knowledge of the proper tackling technique. Very few besides Jake, Radley etc can tackle one on one. If they did know the correct technique and could actually implement that ie - aim for the midrift and drive up under the ball and into the chest the defending team would have a big advantage in putting players on their backs and stopping them in their tracks. This game is now all about get tackled - play the ball quick - get tackled play the ball quick and repeat. We certainly haven't moved with the times but this "new" game is only 14 months old and even this year they have changed more rules. I would guess the tinkering with rules will now plateau and teams will be able to better plan their rosters knowing how and what the game will be and what is needed. Again I will guess that our hands were tied behind our backs a bit with contracts and not being able to offload players without a salary cap hit. I will give the club time to get their house in order and to change the roster to move with this new game of touch. We are not the only team without a salary cap sombrero that is having troubles adapting to the new game. I would think we will have a major shake up player wise at the end of this year. As I have also said we have a million fabulous juniors coming through and so it will be interesting to see which ones stay and which ones make the grade against men instead of boys. I am very angry at our results very very disappointed. But Des and management dont throw the bad passes or drop the ball. We need to move about half a dozen players on, bring some more young blood in over this year. I certainly believe that by 2023 we will have a high quality side and a pretty decent side next year. I am prepared to be patient and give the club time to overcome the contracts that are hindering us with players who simply are no good with the new game. I certainly don't think we are in the position we are in purely because of the new game - and I certainly believe we will see some better results if/when some of our injured players are back on deck. But yes significant roster changes await.

 

[susan]

Outside of Tom though who are these players coming back.

Guaca was not even in the equation before due to the coach but now may play a part only because of injury.He was totally ignored last year.Sirro was struggling badly before injury.Will him returning help that much.
Whose to say with Sirro back that JetSki will keep Guaca on the bench. I’d bet my life on it actually.

And that’s the issue with this coach.

Davey is done.
Fainu will play no part jail or not.

In reality we have not been totally decimated.Outside of Tom ,In one position , second row , we have lost players.

Other sides have same issues or worse.

Our issue is the one really talented player that is out injured means we cannot win a game because half the players selected week in week out are reserve graders at best and no one thought it might be worth providing some cover for him.

 

[Technical Coach]

Take your point Robbo but not sure that the new rules are the major reason for some blow out scorelines and very likely they would be occurring in any case , regardless of any rule alterations . Just seems like some teams are just not performing up to their expected standards , Even the Cowboys have a pretty fair side on paper , some setback with injuries but like Manly just consistently playing some sub standard footy . Don ;t know about the Bull Dogs but noticed that the Broncs were competitive against the Storm until they seemed to fall into a hole . Actually do not watch many other games so not really qualified to comment on a lot of results but just think in Manly 's case with or with out some good players , the side has been largely misfiring for ages now and not too sure that the new rules are totally responsible .

Most teams looking good on paper usually means we are not viewing performance metrics in the right manner along with how a team plays.

 

[Technical Coach]

Sorry mate - the current game is about quickness and fitness - just my view. Very few players have any knowledge of the proper tackling technique. Very few besides Jake, Radley etc can tackle one on one. If they did know the correct technique and could actually implement that ie - aim for the midrift and drive up under the ball and into the chest the defending team would have a big advantage in putting players on their backs and stopping them in their tracks. This game is now all about get tackled - play the ball quick - get tackled play the ball quick and repeat. We certainly haven't moved with the times but this "new" game is only 14 months old and even this year they have changed more rules. I would guess the tinkering with rules will now plateau and teams will be able to better plan their rosters knowing how and what the game will be and what is needed. Again I will guess that our hands were tied behind our backs a bit with contracts and not being able to offload players without a salary cap hit. I will give the club time to get their house in order and to change the roster to move with this new game of touch. We are not the only team without a salary cap sombrero that is having troubles adapting to the new game. I would think we will have a major shake up player wise at the end of this year. As I have also said we have a million fabulous juniors coming through and so it will be interesting to see which ones stay and which ones make the grade against men instead of boys. I am very angry at our results very very disappointed. But Des and management dont throw the bad passes or drop the ball. We need to move about half a dozen players on, bring some more young blood in over this year. I certainly believe that by 2023 we will have a high quality side and a pretty decent side next year. I am prepared to be patient and give the club time to overcome the contracts that are hindering us with players who simply are no good with the new game. I certainly don't think we are in the position we are in purely because of the new game - and I certainly believe we will see some better results if/when some of our injured players are back on deck. But yes significant roster changes await.

How many times have fans at clubs performing badly come up with the line "we have a million fantastic juniors coming through the ranks" it means bugger all if you don't retain and promote the right ones at the right time.

 

[susan]

Take your point Robbo but not sure that the new rules are the major reason for some blow out scorelines and very likely they would be occurring in any case , regardless of any rule alterations . Just seems like some teams are just not performing up to their expected standards , Even the Cowboys have a pretty fair side on paper , some setback with injuries but like Manly just consistently playing some sub standard footy . Don ;t know about the Bull Dogs but noticed that the Broncs were competitive against the Storm until they seemed to fall into a hole . Actually do not watch many other games so not really qualified to comment on a lot of results but just think in Manly 's case with or with out some good players , the side has been largely misfiring for ages now and not too sure that the new rules are totally responsible .

Yep. When you see evenly matched sides can be quite entertaining ( see Saints v Knights ). Top sides playing can be sensational ( storm v Penrith ).
Problem is there are four five sides that are absolutely awful so plenty of games are a farce.The rules exacerbate the margin but if you look at the really weak sides all of them have incredibly weak or unbalanced rosters.
Can’t blame it all on the rules even though it’s a contributing factor.
Not adjusting to the rules is the main issue. They are here to stay. We can whinge or adjust and thrive .

 

[mave]

Not adjusting to the rules is the main issue. They are here to stay. We can whinge or adjust and thrive .

Agreed.

We need to adjust.
Overhauling a roster does not happen overnight though.

Jake T being the #1 example of a guy we are clearly paying overs to, especially with the new regime.
Brad Parker can't suddenly get faster.
Etc, etc

There are a thousand things we can control though, and seemingly don't want to.

 

[Brookie Bob]

How many times have fans at clubs performing badly come up with the line "we have a million fantastic juniors coming through the ranks" it means bugger all if you don't retain and promote the right ones at the right time.

Panthers, Eels and particularly Tigers have all been sucked in by this in the past - and still are to some degree.

I know you can't keep 'em all - particularly if you're the Panthers, Eels and Tigers - but some of their past decisions have been staggeringly bad (particularly Tigers).

 

[Stuey Davis’s Socks]

I love it

Why ?

Because the mediocre unfit snails will become obsolete

Only the best athletes will survive

I hate it because I want to watch the best footballers not the best athletes.

 

[Brisbane Tragic]

How many times have fans at clubs performing badly come up with the line "we have a million fantastic juniors coming through the ranks" it means bugger all if you don't retain and promote the right ones at the right time.

Sorry - never once did I say anything contrary to us promoting the right ones at the right time. Agreed totally. At this very moment - I am not sure though if any of them are ready. Maybe Saddler but I haven't seen his recent Blacktown performances. Koula and Weekes are in Jersey Flegg so they certainly are not seen as ready. Burbo needs more strength, Sione Fainu to me on his cameo at dummy half where there is not a chance I don't think he will ever play again - but he isn't ready. Tuitavake - haven't seen enough of him but gather not ready and I think he is injured. Plus SG Ball and HM are flying so there is some talent there but the HM boys like Feledy are at least two years away. Our current dilemma needs to be partially addressed maybe by promoting Haumole and Tippytoes, by playing players in their right positions and making stupid errors unacceptable. There are many variables that need addressing/improving - bringing through the right juniors is just one important part.

 

[BOZO]

I hate it because I want to watch the best footballers not the best athletes.

This is the way I see it feathered friend

The NRL is a brutal game and unless you are fit and in peak athletic condition you are fcked

 

[Kevinward777]

Strongly disagree. Have you seen Luai play?
The way they dance across the field looking for gaps, back each other up and keep going at speed is touch footy.

100%

 

[Brisbane Tragic]

Agreed.

We need to adjust.
Overhauling a roster does not happen overnight though.

Jake T being the #1 example of a guy we are clearly paying overs to, especially with the new regime.
Brad Parker can't suddenly get faster.
Etc, etc

There are a thousand things we can control though, and seemingly don't want to.

I hate it because I want to watch the best footballers not the best athletes.

Yep I want to watch footballers playing fast but playing crash and bang football. Not fast touch. All the HIA's now in the main are all the result of terrible tackle technique. Players today are simply not taught how to tackle and tackle where you don't need another player to help. No matter the size of the body or the body type... there is a technique to drop every player one on one. But yes it is getting to a game of the quickest team wins. Would the great Artie Beetson survive today? Ball skills wise - absolutely..... fitness wise/lateral movement/speed - not a chance.