Another way to look at what’s transpired.

“ Triggered Boomer”
Premium Member
From the outset , I want to place on record two things.

1) I’m no fan of the Penn family BUT they are the owners and financially backstop the team so that is what it is. I’ll pay my membership , I’m rusted too the brand , the logo , the club. Owners come and go.

2) I was no fan of Des when he left , but I did support him when he returned , although I am not at all surprised at the acrimonious departure. As with owners coaches come and go , it’s part of corporate life.

Now, my opinion.

A privately owned football club is no different to a privately owned major corporation.

They employ people to “ succeed” and if they don’t they are usually removed , often with the need for a big payout, and always with acrimony.

Back in my travel days I became mates with the State Sales manager for Emirates ( the airline ) who wanted to become a State Manager ( a step up and a big salary increase ) so he asked for a few of us to support him becoming the QLD manager.

Which he did.

He then asked us to support the move to upgrade the Boeing 777 daily service to an A380 , a huge increase in capacity and most importantly in premium seat capacity.

He was successful BUT was advised his arse was on the line if the passenger numbers in all classes of travel didn’t jump.

He did everything known to man to do that , worked his backside off travelling the state trying to win business but in the end it didn’t work.

Brisbane went back to a 777, AND he was sacked ( with a payout ).

That’s the corporate world for you and really I wonder if what’s happening at Manly is any different??

Forget injuries
Forget pridegate

A coach is given a team of 30 players and is able to surround himself with his picks for fitness , rehab , assistants etc etc.

And it’s up to that coach to meld those players into a cohesive , successful unit AND if they don’t then just like in the corporate world when you aren’t successful you’re out and replaced with someone else who thinks they can do it.

Oh sure there are the top 2 or 3 coaches and it would be great to jag one of those for this next stage but as that’s not really possible so I believe we should all just bite the bullet and support whoever gets the job, you mightn’t like the choice , but he’ll be wearing our colours and be the face of our team.

Then in two years , just like in the corporate world , if he’s not successful then we go again.

It is indeed a “ results driven business “.

Ive tried reading most of the threads to catch up and it seems we are split fairly evenly between “ it’s all ****ed ,I’m cancelling my memberships and supporting the Dolphins or leaving the game all together” OR “ it was time for Des to go let’s just move in and give whoever a go “.

Fair enough , you’re all passionate and it’s an emotive issue but at the heart of the issue is you’re a Manly fan , you know that Sea Eagle logo , those maroon & white colours and those boys past and present who spill blood for our enjoyment.

And THAT doesn’t change.

I truly hope you all stick around , it’s a rough ride but boy the good times make the bad times seem inconsequential.
 
Sea Eagle Lach
Premium Member
you know that Sea Eagle logo , those maroon & white colours and those boys past and present who spill blood for our enjoyment.
This is a key point for some (probably including me at least to some extent).

We all know that aside from the grand finals and premierships as coach, Des spilled blood for Manly over many games in which he never left anything in the tank.

Penn is an owner. Privileged guy who happens to be rich. So regardless of whether Des was treading water or whatever as coach, it pains somewhat to have that guy kick him out, especially in the way it looked, which was payback for embarrassing him (whether or not that was true that's how it looked).
 
Reserve Grader
Premium Member
“at the heart of the issue is you’re a Manly fan , you know that Sea Eagle logo , those maroon & white colours and those boys past and present who spill blood for our enjoyment.”
And that (as you know of course) is why it is not just like running a corporation. Or shouldn’t be.
 
First Grader
Premium Member
The Results Driven Business dribble was trotted out when they sacked Toovey, who had finished in the Top 4 for each of the 3 previous seasons, his only completed seasons as coach at that stage.

I agree with everything @Mark from Brisbane has said above.

I am not in the habit of bagging players, but they played their part in letting Des down so its no good kicking up dust now he has been sacked.
 

Ned

2022 Tipster
Ive tried reading most of the threads to catch up and it seems we are split fairly evenly between “ it’s all ****ed ,I’m cancelling my memberships and supporting the Dolphins or leaving the game all together” OR “ it was time for Des to go let’s just move in and give whoever a go “.
I'm sort of inbetween, I'm still supporting Manly for sure, but I did ask them to not auto renew my membership. I want to sit on the sidelines for a bit and will probably renew as I like going to games but I want them to sweat a bit and not just assume my money is taken for granted.

But I am so over the ****e show going on at the club, and I don't dee that happening with Penn there. He's had an offer from URM there for years, just the price isn't to his liking but hopefully they come to an agreement and we can move on to a new era and hopefully success soon.
 
The Incomparable Immortal Bob Fulton
Forget injuries Forget pridegate
A coach is given a team of 30 players And it’s up to that coach to meld those players into a cohesive , successful unit AND if they don’t then just like in the corporate world when you aren’t successful you’re out and replaced with someone else who thinks they can do it.
This is the major key point right there

Professional clubs Primary aim is to get results in a results driven business

Des has been Great in the past and he will aways be respected for his past success

But in time each great succumbs to father time and failure

It is time to bring in a fresh new coach to inspire the Manly Sea eagles to greater heights

Time will tel If the once time NRL coach of the year Seibold is the right man for the job

In the mean time he is our coach and we will wish him success
 
From the outset , I want to place on record two things.

1) I’m no fan of the Penn family BUT they are the owners and financially backstop the team so that is what it is. I’ll pay my membership , I’m rusted too the brand , the logo , the club. Owners come and go.

2) I was no fan of Des when he left , but I did support him when he returned , although I am not at all surprised at the acrimonious departure. As with owners coaches come and go , it’s part of corporate life.

Now, my opinion.

A privately owned football club is no different to a privately owned major corporation.

They employ people to “ succeed” and if they don’t they are usually removed , often with the need for a big payout, and always with acrimony.

Back in my travel days I became mates with the State Sales manager for Emirates ( the airline ) who wanted to become a State Manager ( a step up and a big salary increase ) so he asked for a few of us to support him becoming the QLD manager.

Which he did.

He then asked us to support the move to upgrade the Boeing 777 daily service to an A380 , a huge increase in capacity and most importantly in premium seat capacity.

He was successful BUT was advised his arse was on the line if the passenger numbers in all classes of travel didn’t jump.

He did everything known to man to do that , worked his backside off travelling the state trying to win business but in the end it didn’t work.

Brisbane went back to a 777, AND he was sacked ( with a payout ).

That’s the corporate world for you and really I wonder if what’s happening at Manly is any different??

Forget injuries
Forget pridegate

A coach is given a team of 30 players and is able to surround himself with his picks for fitness , rehab , assistants etc etc.

And it’s up to that coach to meld those players into a cohesive , successful unit AND if they don’t then just like in the corporate world when you aren’t successful you’re out and replaced with someone else who thinks they can do it.

Oh sure there are the top 2 or 3 coaches and it would be great to jag one of those for this next stage but as that’s not really possible so I believe we should all just bite the bullet and support whoever gets the job, you mightn’t like the choice , but he’ll be wearing our colours and be the face of our team.

Then in two years , just like in the corporate world , if he’s not successful then we go again.

It is indeed a “ results driven business “.

Ive tried reading most of the threads to catch up and it seems we are split fairly evenly between “ it’s all ****ed ,I’m cancelling my memberships and supporting the Dolphins or leaving the game all together” OR “ it was time for Des to go let’s just move in and give whoever a go “.

Fair enough , you’re all passionate and it’s an emotive issue but at the heart of the issue is you’re a Manly fan , you know that Sea Eagle logo , those maroon & white colours and those boys past and present who spill blood for our enjoyment.

And THAT doesn’t change.

I truly hope you all stick around , it’s a rough ride but boy the good times make the bad times seem inconsequential.
Great read Mark and so true
 
2022 Tipster
From the outset , I want to place on record two things.

1) I’m no fan of the Penn family BUT they are the owners and financially backstop the team so that is what it is. I’ll pay my membership , I’m rusted too the brand , the logo , the club. Owners come and go.
This is the part of the "stay a member" argument I don't understand because owners only come and go if the Brand is no longer attractive to them or they make a huge profit selling, no in-between.

So if you are not happy with Penn, who has treated our club legends including Delmege, Tooves and the like disgracefully, then by being a member you are supporting Penn not the guys who spilled blood on the field for us.

How else can the average Joe show they are not happy and want Penn out, by not renewing I am showing I don't support Penn by staying a member of MWRLFC I am supporting the team, the players and whoever is the coach.

Edit... and I may add, the so called club we supported for years above all else, is no more a member club, it is Penns club not ours. I feel and it's only my feeling, I am not telling anyone else what they should or shouldn't feel do or whatever, but personally I feel, if I renew I continue to support this idiots treatment of our club and club legends, and I don't mean Des, I mean the collective.
 
Bencher
Premium Member
From the outset , I want to place on record two things.

1) I’m no fan of the Penn family BUT they are the owners and financially backstop the team so that is what it is. I’ll pay my membership , I’m rusted too the brand , the logo , the club. Owners come and go.

2) I was no fan of Des when he left , but I did support him when he returned , although I am not at all surprised at the acrimonious departure. As with owners coaches come and go , it’s part of corporate life.

Now, my opinion.

A privately owned football club is no different to a privately owned major corporation.

They employ people to “ succeed” and if they don’t they are usually removed , often with the need for a big payout, and always with acrimony.

Back in my travel days I became mates with the State Sales manager for Emirates ( the airline ) who wanted to become a State Manager ( a step up and a big salary increase ) so he asked for a few of us to support him becoming the QLD manager.

Which he did.

He then asked us to support the move to upgrade the Boeing 777 daily service to an A380 , a huge increase in capacity and most importantly in premium seat capacity.

He was successful BUT was advised his arse was on the line if the passenger numbers in all classes of travel didn’t jump.

He did everything known to man to do that , worked his backside off travelling the state trying to win business but in the end it didn’t work.

Brisbane went back to a 777, AND he was sacked ( with a payout ).

That’s the corporate world for you and really I wonder if what’s happening at Manly is any different??

Forget injuries
Forget pridegate

A coach is given a team of 30 players and is able to surround himself with his picks for fitness , rehab , assistants etc etc.

And it’s up to that coach to meld those players into a cohesive , successful unit AND if they don’t then just like in the corporate world when you aren’t successful you’re out and replaced with someone else who thinks they can do it.

Oh sure there are the top 2 or 3 coaches and it would be great to jag one of those for this next stage but as that’s not really possible so I believe we should all just bite the bullet and support whoever gets the job, you mightn’t like the choice , but he’ll be wearing our colours and be the face of our team.

Then in two years , just like in the corporate world , if he’s not successful then we go again.

It is indeed a “ results driven business “.

Ive tried reading most of the threads to catch up and it seems we are split fairly evenly between “ it’s all ****ed ,I’m cancelling my memberships and supporting the Dolphins or leaving the game all together” OR “ it was time for Des to go let’s just move in and give whoever a go “.

Fair enough , you’re all passionate and it’s an emotive issue but at the heart of the issue is you’re a Manly fan , you know that Sea Eagle logo , those maroon & white colours and those boys past and present who spill blood for our enjoyment.

And THAT doesn’t change.

I truly hope you all stick around , it’s a rough ride but boy the good times make the bad times seem inconsequential.

Great summation Mark.

I think that the fact we spent the last 7 weeks of the season getting soundly beaten by all and sundry has angered the Silvertails faithful to the point that this was just the straw that broke the camel's back. (Bloody big straw though I must admit)

I don't see what choice I have. I have supported Manly for as long as I've known what rugby league is which was the early 70's. I still get upset when we lose. Like you, I'm rusted on. I proudly drive around with my Manly number plates and member's sticker on my car. As a teacher, my students even joke on a Monday morning "don't piss Sir off. Manly lost on the weekend and you'll end up in detention." They know me well.

So you know what I'm going to do ? I'm going to suck it up and move on. I wasn't sold on Des at any rate after what happened in 2011. That, to me, was a total act of bastardry. But like you, I forgave him when he came back because I thought he could bring us success. But he didn't. I'm not sure we have the roster to challenge Penrith anyway but being competitive would be nice.

Let's hope 2023 brings us more wins than this year and Seibold does a good job.
 
Last edited:
Reserve Grader
From the outset , I want to place on record two things.

1) I’m no fan of the Penn family BUT they are the owners and financially backstop the team so that is what it is. I’ll pay my membership , I’m rusted too the brand , the logo , the club. Owners come and go.

2) I was no fan of Des when he left , but I did support him when he returned , although I am not at all surprised at the acrimonious departure. As with owners coaches come and go , it’s part of corporate life.

Now, my opinion.

A privately owned football club is no different to a privately owned major corporation.

They employ people to “ succeed” and if they don’t they are usually removed , often with the need for a big payout, and always with acrimony.

Back in my travel days I became mates with the State Sales manager for Emirates ( the airline ) who wanted to become a State Manager ( a step up and a big salary increase ) so he asked for a few of us to support him becoming the QLD manager.

Which he did.

He then asked us to support the move to upgrade the Boeing 777 daily service to an A380 , a huge increase in capacity and most importantly in premium seat capacity.

He was successful BUT was advised his arse was on the line if the passenger numbers in all classes of travel didn’t jump.

He did everything known to man to do that , worked his backside off travelling the state trying to win business but in the end it didn’t work.

Brisbane went back to a 777, AND he was sacked ( with a payout ).

That’s the corporate world for you and really I wonder if what’s happening at Manly is any different??

Forget injuries
Forget pridegate

A coach is given a team of 30 players and is able to surround himself with his picks for fitness , rehab , assistants etc etc.

And it’s up to that coach to meld those players into a cohesive , successful unit AND if they don’t then just like in the corporate world when you aren’t successful you’re out and replaced with someone else who thinks they can do it.

Oh sure there are the top 2 or 3 coaches and it would be great to jag one of those for this next stage but as that’s not really possible so I believe we should all just bite the bullet and support whoever gets the job, you mightn’t like the choice , but he’ll be wearing our colours and be the face of our team.

Then in two years , just like in the corporate world , if he’s not successful then we go again.

It is indeed a “ results driven business “.

Ive tried reading most of the threads to catch up and it seems we are split fairly evenly between “ it’s all ****ed ,I’m cancelling my memberships and supporting the Dolphins or leaving the game all together” OR “ it was time for Des to go let’s just move in and give whoever a go “.

Fair enough , you’re all passionate and it’s an emotive issue but at the heart of the issue is you’re a Manly fan , you know that Sea Eagle logo , those maroon & white colours and those boys past and present who spill blood for our enjoyment.

And THAT doesn’t change.

I truly hope you all stick around , it’s a rough ride but boy the good times make the bad times seem inconsequential.
Your analogy can equally apply to Penn.

He made the decision to sack Toovey saying it was a results driven business. That left.us.with the miserable failure that was Barrett.

He then brought Des back to replace Trent And look where we are now.

Yes he is the owner. But that doesnt mean he has to run the club himself.

Maybe its time for him to step away from making or involving himself in.the big decisions on the football side of things and let the people he puts in charge do whats best for the club.

In the end sacking Des might have been the right thing to do, who knows. I wish Siebold all the best. But just like as it was with toovey, this decision ends up looking like a bout of pettiness with Penn involved.
 
“ Triggered Boomer”
Premium Member
Your analogy can equally apply to Penn.

He made the decision to sack Toovey saying it was a results driven business. That left.us.with the miserable failure that was Barrett.

He then brought Des back to replace Trent And look where we are now.

Yes he is the owner. But that doesnt mean he has to run the club himself.

Maybe its time for him to step away from making or involving himself in.the big decisions on the football side of things and let the people he puts in charge do whats best for the club.

In the end sacking Des might have been the right thing to do, who knows. I wish Siebold all the best. But just like as it was with toovey, this decision ends up looking like a bout of pettiness with Penn involved.
Can’t disagree , Penn is an absent owner and Manly is a plaything BUT he IS the owner and there’s little we can do to change that.
 

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