#9

[Snake]

There have been many reasons discussed as to why we lost in the manner we did yesterday. It really comes back to the 9. I know we have enough "praise Api" threads after his terrific season so far, but he was the main factor in our loss yesterday, as well as attitude.

You see, Hastings and J Lussick didn't have what one would describe as a "bad" or "terrible" game, but neither have what it takes to keep the middle tight they way Api can...and nor should they. Hastings is a half and has limited experience as a "bench utility" who can play a bit of 9. J Lussick was making his FG debut and even the best 9's need time to "feel" their way into an extremely difficult defensive role.

Keeping the middle tight is not strictly measured by tackles made vs tackles missed. Firstly, it's about line speed (the hooker sets the tempo for the forwards, particularly the 2 props standing directly to the left and right). Secondly, the hookers job is to get in low around the hip/legs, stop the momentum of the opposition forwards and allow the props and lock (and in some cases the backrowers) an opportunity to rap the ball up. The 9 might be called on to do this 2-3, sometimes 4 times in a set...

Now it might seem a little ridiculous when you consider how many other players make tackles in a game, besides the hooker, but...

...the 9 only needs to do this well a couple of times in a set and the tempo of the set changes off the back of it. A couple of really good low tackles with help from the forwards can control the ruck, slow it down and it has a ripple effect. Instead, yesterday, this didn't happen (i'm going to be bold) once!

One last thing...the Dragons scored 3 first half tries from kicks...next time Manly play, watch how often Api is the guy putting the pressure on the kicker...

It's no wonder Baz rates him so highly. He was a gaping hole in yesterday's match.

 

[Terry Zarsoff]

I think we might be missing Mate Nyles as well.

 

[HappilyManly]

Api scurrying out and putting the defenders onto the back foot.

Also Siro not smashing their runners.

Lane needs to get some sense of urgency and aggro ASAP

 

[Chip and Chase]

Good points. I just snuck a look at the stats and Hastings did miss a few yesterday. Api was a big loss, but do we still win with him in ?? I'm not sure.

50 points looks bad but 3 tries from kicks and an intercept flattered Saints.

 

[Paw93]

Agreed that Api adds so much to the team but I do think that Hastings was somewhat poor. He couldn't cope with the pace of the game with fresh forwards running at him in defense and pressuring him in attack. Lussick did far better and coincided with our only decent run all game. Not picking on Hastings as he's a good player but Lussick should have started.

 

[Snake]

Good points. I just snuck a look at the stats and Hastings did miss a few yesterday. Api was a big loss, but do we still win with him in ?? I'm not sure.

50 points looks bad but 3 tries from kicks and an intercept flattered Saints.

Totally agree.

And yeah I don't think we win with Api, but it wouldn't have been that bad and maybe we would have been an outside chance with him...

I thought after the Tigers performance we would struggle against our bogey team (of sorts) and playing in Wollongong.
I also think every club has a slump at some point (some worse than others) and we are having ours at the moment.

 

[HappilyManly]

Good points. I just snuck a look at the stats and Hastings did miss a few yesterday. Api was a big loss, but do we still win with him in ?? I'm not sure.

50 points looks bad but 3 tries from kicks and an intercept flattered Saints.

The kicks were basically Walks being out of position.

He neither blocked nor had sense enough to fall back in case Uate knocked the ball on and the Saints scoot over

 

[Holmsey]

Api tightens the defence in the middle and holds it together, he also keeps us rolling with his runs from dummy half. Hastings isn't a nine, he doesnt run and doesnt bring anything off the back of the forwards or quick play the balls. Api makes us a team.

 

[robbiea]

Is Api back this week ..?

 

[mave]

I won't be very api if he isn't.

 

[Fluffy]

Api didn't make the difference last year when we were missing 9 players.

 

[Snake]

Api didn't make the difference last year when we were missing 9 players.

That was last year; I think we can all agree that he has improved and another thing...last year when we had an injury crisis, API was moved to the halves.

One more thing, I'm not saying I think it's why we lost, but you don't have to be Einstein to see how missing our regular 9 affected the team on Sunday.

 

[Woodsie]

Agreed that Api adds so much to the team but I do think that Hastings was somewhat poor. He couldn't cope with the pace of the game with fresh forwards running at him in defense and pressuring him in attack. Lussick did far better and coincided with our only decent run all game. Not picking on Hastings as he's a good player but Lussick should have started.

I can just imagine the hysterical outrage had Baz named Joey to start .... the Cullen and hastings are the world's best players brigade would have been volcanic.

 

[Chip and Chase]

After listening to Baz on NRL360 last night, one thing is certain - he is a card carrying member of the Api K fanclub, may well even be President given his effusiveness on the subject. So I don't expect that we'll see anyone else starting at 9 in the near future if Api is fit.

 

[Fluffy]

Judging other players with so many missing around is comparing oranges with elephants.

 

[Deleted member 26876]

I can just imagine the hysterical outrage had Baz named Joey to start .... the Cullen and hastings are the world's best players brigade would have been volcanic.

Thought Joey had a good game

 

[Ned]

I think we might be missing Mate Nyles as well.

Yeah, but he was missing a long time before we released him to the storm haha

 

[Snake]

Judging other players with so many missing around is comparing oranges with elephants.

Ok so Hastings and Lussick kept the middle as tight as API normally would and the only reason API gets picked each week is luck, not that he does a better job than the other two mentioned?

You're not making sense.

I'm not saying it was the difference between winning and losing, but losing your 9 is a big deal and I've explained why....u haven't explained anything, just sat in opposition.

 

[Fluffy]

Ok so Hastings and Lussick kept the middle as tight as API normally would and the only reason API gets picked each week is luck, not that he does a better job than the other two mentioned?

You're not making sense.

I'm not saying it was the difference between winning and losing, but losing your 9 is a big deal and I've explained why....u haven't explained anything, just sat in opposition.

I have never said Api doesn't keep the middle tight, what I have said is that there was a multitude of factors in that game and when Api was in that situation last year with heaps of injuries things were not tight either so impossible to tell. I would have Api in my team every week but question his passing so will not write off Hastings to start after 1 single game where 9 players were out injured like you. I am from the Matt Ballin school of ball distribution and unfortunately for us Api is not even in the same hemisphere in this aspect, Hastings is, Cullen is not.

And using a 1 off game you could also argue that our middle was tight enough as none of the first half tries were scored in the middle, we leaked points on the edges.

Using your logic you are saying BJ, Sironen, Green have nothing to do with tightening up the middle nor 40 games of settling into the roll at the club.

 

[bringbackbeaver]

@Snake good thread and I think you've nailed it. I would also add that Parker going off for the first 10 mins/combined with Lane's 2 errors and a penalty, it was just a cluster of things go wrong. I was a fan of Lane after the 3 matches he played this year, but for mine, hes a bench forward at best.
Kapow has been really quiet last 3 weeks. He needs to lift and help Jake out. I think we are pretty desperate for a good (not even great) second rower. Anyone know what's the Billy Bainbridge situation? Or that fella from parra we bought... Something?!?! Frankenstein and Lane would have to be the weakest second rowers in the comp at the moment. Even Newcastle have us covered there