12 & 13

Ryan

Journey Man
I know this will be an unpopular post, because we are talking about many fans favorite player(s) here, but I think we need to look at this backrow and lock position going forward to stay in touch with the modern game. As we've seen recently, when we've had Lawton / Brown filling in there (2 players with some mobility, leg speed, and intensity at the line), we've looked MUCH better in both attack and defense.

But what do we do?

Jake Trbojevic: Here's the toughest one. He adds so much value character, leadership and often in defense. To offset that (if we are being honest), he offers very little in attack (he looks like he's running in quicksand), and he can certainly give away a penalty (his defense seems to be tapering off). It's this reason I believe he's given very little minutes in Origin - you just can't risk a player of his pace against the elite speed, pace and mobility of those other representative players. My view, is that he needs to lose 15 k/g's odd, and move into a prop rotation (basically replacing Lodge who should probably go). Before you rip me for saying that, look at how it rejuvenated Talau (he's got a new lease on life right now to almost becoming some peoples favorite player !!). It will also prolong his career guys. We also needs to avoid having too many of the same types of players (Jake, Lodge, Woods, Sips, Condon, Aloiai, Burbo, James, Brown - all lumbering types).

Ben Trbojevic: He's 22, so can develop. But look at our difference in both attack and defense with Lawton in the 12. We honestly need a hole running, ball playing, lighter, faster, more mobile and agile backrower here. Burbo's defense is also deplorable. I think it's due to lack of lateral movement in defense. He's a spot defender, and gets targeted due to his size, and arm grabbing. I WANT him to be different. In the junior grades, he was QUICK. I don't know what's happened. The below is not what we are getting. He had an inner Turbo in him here:


My solutions:

1. Jake to prop (and with quite a bit of weight off)
2. Acquire a Liam Martin, Victor Radley, Karl Lawton (lite) for that 12 jersey
3. IF we stick with Burbo (use someone like Arthur if he hasn't gone) in the 13
4. If we get a new more mobile 12, move Nathan Brown into the starting 13 position pending point 1.

Thought's guys?
 
I said from pre season. Brown to lock Jake to Prop.

And Burbo is just Burbo.. a workman but nothing else really.

If we can pick up a mobile and hard defending Second rower ( like Nikora from the Sharks or Riki from the Broncs.. neither will happen) then we are a real threat
 
If Jake moves to prop I think he might need a touch more size,I don't think playing him for 80 is his future there.
Brown to lock is a better option than Jake.
Young Dunford had an excellent game in the second row in a beaten side for Reggie's.He is relatively light and mobile and an excellent defender,would love to see him grab a supplementary contract next year,can also play in the middle.
 
I know this will be an unpopular post, because we are talking about many fans favorite player(s) here, but I think we need to look at this backrow and lock position going forward to stay in touch with the modern game. As we've seen recently, when we've had Lawton / Brown filling in there (2 players with some mobility, leg speed, and intensity at the line), we've looked MUCH better in both attack and defense.

But what do we do?

Jake Trbojevic: Here's the toughest one. He adds so much value character, leadership and often in defense. To offset that (if we are being honest), he offers very little in attack (he looks like he's running in quicksand), and he can certainly give away a penalty (his defense seems to be tapering off). It's this reason I believe he's given very little minutes in Origin - you just can't risk a player of his pace against the elite speed, pace and mobility of those other representative players. My view, is that he needs to lose 15 k/g's odd, and move into a prop rotation (basically replacing Lodge who should probably go). Before you rip me for saying that, look at how it rejuvenated Talau (he's got a new lease on life right now to almost becoming some peoples favorite player !!). It will also prolong his career guys. We also needs to avoid having too many of the same types of players (Jake, Lodge, Woods, Sips, Condon, Aloiai, Burbo, James, Brown - all lumbering types).

Ben Trbojevic: He's 22, so can develop. But look at our difference in both attack and defense with Lawton in the 12. We honestly need a hole running, ball playing, lighter, faster, more mobile and agile backrower here. Burbo's defense is also deplorable. I think it's due to lack of lateral movement in defense. He's a spot defender, and gets targeted due to his size, and arm grabbing. I WANT him to be different. In the junior grades, he was QUICK. I don't know what's happened. The below is not what we are getting. He had an inner Turbo in him here:


My solutions:

1. Jake to prop (and with quite a bit of weight off)
2. Acquire a Liam Martin, Victor Radley, Karl Lawton (lite) for that 12 jersey
3. IF we stick with Burbo (use someone like Arthur if he hasn't gone) in the 13
4. If we get a new more mobile 12, move Nathan Brown into the starting 13 position pending point 1.

Thought's guys?
I like your thinking.

Jake to prop. Brown at 13, Lawton second row, burbo to bench.

Burbo has had some good patches but has been best in the games when he switched to centre imo.

He’s not in our top 2 centres nor in our top 2 second rowers right now. But pretty good bench cover so I’d put him there.
 
I agree Jake's best position is prop. I hope he trains for a preseason at prop and regains some of the power that he used to run with. I don't think his defense has fallen off, he just does so much of it.
 
Happy for Lawnton to replace Burbo as he has raised the ruck speed whenever he has come on this year...
Prefer Jake stays at lock for now as his defence in the middle is elite, his ball-playing is under-rated / under-valued and Jake's penalty count is waaay down this year... plus I dont think having Jake on the pine for extended periods (as he would be in a prop rotation) has been good for us in any games that I can recall...
We were good against the knights and BFB played Jake's role pretty well but imo it is a lot different when the opponent is actually throwing punches back at you...
 
Agree with all, it's a shame we've taken this long to realise Lawton is our best option on the left edge but hopefully we at least now keep him there until he leaves for the Cows.

That position is definitely one of our biggest holes and I don't think Burbo is any better than Waddell let alone Lawton. If we can't sign someone there for next year maybe Talau can move into that role? I seem to remember him filling in there for the Tigers and it would solve the selection headache in the backline. I'd be hesitant to do it with how much he's improved this year after trimming down in weight, but he seems like a new player with us anyway and with how well he's jumped between the centres and wing for us I'm sure he could do a job there.
 
I reckon 60 minutes each for Jake and Brown is the sweet spot. The numbers on their backs don't really matter. Brown played strong for the full 80 yesterday but I don't think that is sustainable or optimal for his style of play
 
Trbo
Saab
Garrick
Koula
Talau
Brooks
DCE
Paseka
Simpkins
Aloiai
Olakau’atu
Lawton
Jrbo
Res: Hoppa, Brown, Sipley, Bully
Simpkins can play 80 with Lawton as backup, Jrbo can always move to the middle, Hoppa has a roaming job as he did yesterday. For mine the best team we have!
With Lawton going to Cows let’s get Samuela back & we win Premierships!
 
Trbo
Saab
Garrick
Koula
Talau
Brooks
DCE
Paseka
Simpkins
Aloiai
Olakau’atu
Lawton
Jrbo
Res: Hoppa, Brown, Sipley, Bully
Simpkins can play 80 with Lawton as backup, Jrbo can always move to the middle, Hoppa has a roaming job as he did yesterday. For mine the best team we have!
With Lawton going to Cows let’s get Samuela back & we win Premierships!
Did we watch the same game yesterday???hmmm
Hoppa had a roaming job...?.. he did.. right along the left touchline in both halves as a good winger should..he certainly didn't "roam"

As for Samuel he's average,especially at his managers asking price

I've said this before real talent shine straight up from their debut and then kick on.. I can't remember Samuela's debut

We need a serious second rower and dominant front rower before we are winning premierships and that's hoping that Simpkins becomes an elite hooker otherwise we still need one of them.

Here's hoping... Go Manly
 
Did we watch the same game yesterday???hmmm
Hoppa had a roaming job...?.. he did.. right along the left touchline in both halves as a good winger should..he certainly didn't "roam"

As for Samuel he's average,especially at his managers asking price

I've said this before real talent shine straight up from their debut and then kick on.. I can't remember Samuela's debut

We need a serious second rower and dominant front rower before we are winning premierships and that's hoping that Simpkins becomes an elite hooker otherwise we still need one of them.

Here's hoping... Go Manly
Watch the game again….he was everywhere taking the ball up & WAS not stuck on the wing! He was taking hit ups that Trbo would normally take so yeah he was taking pressure off Trbo by roaming.
 
Watch the game again….he was everywhere taking the ball up & WAS not stuck on the wing! He was taking hit ups that Trbo would normally take so yeah he was taking pressure off Trbo by roaming.
He was everywhere on the left side of the field just as Saab was on the right side.. what roaming???.. it's his job to take the first pass from the fullback and take a hit up..

Roaming means he took plays on the right side of the field ( which he didn't).. or he chimmed in on a backline play over on the right side or through the middle of the field (which he didn't).

Sorry I'm just stating the obvious to your call that Hoppa had a "roaming" job.
 
He was everywhere on the left side of the field just as Saab was on the right side.. what roaming???.. it's his job to take the first pass from the fullback and take a hit up..

Roaming means he took plays on the right side of the field ( which he didn't).. or he chimmed in on a backline play over on the right side or through the middle of the field (which he didn't).

Sorry I'm just stating the obvious to your call that Hoppa had a "roaming" job.
Agree to disagree….
 
I know this will be an unpopular post, because we are talking about many fans favorite player(s) here, but I think we need to look at this backrow and lock position going forward to stay in touch with the modern game. As we've seen recently, when we've had Lawton / Brown filling in there (2 players with some mobility, leg speed, and intensity at the line), we've looked MUCH better in both attack and defense.

But what do we do?

Jake Trbojevic: Here's the toughest one. He adds so much value character, leadership and often in defense. To offset that (if we are being honest), he offers very little in attack (he looks like he's running in quicksand), and he can certainly give away a penalty (his defense seems to be tapering off). It's this reason I believe he's given very little minutes in Origin - you just can't risk a player of his pace against the elite speed, pace and mobility of those other representative players. My view, is that he needs to lose 15 k/g's odd, and move into a prop rotation (basically replacing Lodge who should probably go). Before you rip me for saying that, look at how it rejuvenated Talau (he's got a new lease on life right now to almost becoming some peoples favorite player !!). It will also prolong his career guys. We also needs to avoid having too many of the same types of players (Jake, Lodge, Woods, Sips, Condon, Aloiai, Burbo, James, Brown - all lumbering types).

Ben Trbojevic: He's 22, so can develop. But look at our difference in both attack and defense with Lawton in the 12. We honestly need a hole running, ball playing, lighter, faster, more mobile and agile backrower here. Burbo's defense is also deplorable. I think it's due to lack of lateral movement in defense. He's a spot defender, and gets targeted due to his size, and arm grabbing. I WANT him to be different. In the junior grades, he was QUICK. I don't know what's happened. The below is not what we are getting. He had an inner Turbo in him here:


My solutions:

1. Jake to prop (and with quite a bit of weight off)
2. Acquire a Liam Martin, Victor Radley, Karl Lawton (lite) for that 12 jersey
3. IF we stick with Burbo (use someone like Arthur if he hasn't gone) in the 13
4. If we get a new more mobile 12, move Nathan Brown into the starting 13 position pending point 1.

Thought's guys?
My thought is an edge forward with some size, athletic build similar to the shape of Angus Crichton would be ideal. If the rumours are correct Matterson may well be the one.

I think Ben needs time to develop his game on the edge, coming off the pine he doesn’t have to play the full 80 and those hard first 20 minutes.

Brown is a good ball distributer in the middle, though his body ain’t going to give you a full 80 week in week out, Navale may develop this in his game over time if he can hold a spot on the bench.
 
Thought we might have held up writing Jake’s obituary after his last performance where his ball put Koula in the clear for the 3rd Saab try, his effort on old slow legs blocked the field goal that was going over, and his hit up where he stayed upright helped for that extra bit of time for DCE to knock over the winner
 
Thought we might have held up writing Jake’s obituary after his last performance where his ball put Koula in the clear for the 3rd Saab try, his effort on old slow legs blocked the field goal that was going over, and his hit up where he stayed upright helped for that extra bit of time for DCE to knock over the winner

This isn't a bag Jake thread mate. It's about what's best for the team. We've seen a strong shift in speed / mobility both in attack and defense, when more agile players are in the backrow and lock.

Why do you think he gets just 18-20 minutes in Origin? And remember, he's still IN origin, as a captain, so no-one is questioning his value.

My view is, to prolong his career, he trims down 15kg's or so, moves to prop, rejuvenates like Talau has, and comes out as a ball playing , hard running prop next season.

Remember, we have so many other first grade and depth players similar to him (lumbering, power forwards).

We've all been watching. For the first time in 15 months, we've held a team to less than 10 on the weekend. Our defense was up and in. Our attack agile and mobile.

Add Jake, Ben, Lodge, Paseka all back in, we go back to that more simple, slower, set style of play we've seen over the past few years.

If that's what you want, okay? But I personally think change is important to stay with the speed of the game.
 
This isn't a bag Jake thread mate. It's about what's best for the team. We've seen a strong shift in speed / mobility both in attack and defense, when more agile players are in the backrow and lock.

Why do you think he gets just 18-20 minutes in Origin? And remember, he's still IN origin, as a captain, so no-one is questioning his value.

My view is, to prolong his career, he trims down 15kg's or so, moves to prop, rejuvenates like Talau has, and comes out as a ball playing , hard running prop next season.

Remember, we have so many other first grade and depth players similar to him (lumbering, power forwards).

We've all been watching. For the first time in 15 months, we've held a team to less than 10 on the weekend. Our defense was up and in. Our attack agile and mobile.

Add Jake, Ben, Lodge, Paseka all back in, we go back to that more simple, slower, set style of play we've seen over the past few years.

If that's what you want, okay? But I personally think change is important to stay with the speed of the game.
Game 1 obviously the send off left NSW short and scrambling for edge players so that’s what happened there. Game 2 comfortably in front so

I don’t see him dropping 15kg really adding much value to his play mate. I’m not looking at what he doesn’t offer, I’m looking at what he does offer. He is the leader of the pack that completely ties everything together in the middle. What he does with the ball is still fairly underrated as well. 13 and 8 isn’t really a huge difference in the modern game with the roles they play. I think we are a better side with Jake on the park for 80mins, and Nathan Brown coming on and injecting himself after 20mins or so whichever way we need him.

Ben T, I don’t really understand all the crap he cops. He is still a fairly young guy to the game who has been hampered a bit by not being able to string a consistent run of games together. I like his size as a hole runner, he can be dangerous if the ball players get it right. Choc and Gift weren’t the finished article at 22 with less than 50 games under their belt.

I can understand the talk about speed etc, but there are plenty of ways to skin the cat in rugby league. 10 years ago the common cry was that all wingers now had to be 6’4” and good in the air, any other type the game had passed them by. Brett Morris was still the best winger for years after that while To’o currently doesn’t fit that mould at all and is one of the best wingers the game has seen

P.s- Please never talk about adding Lodge in again. It will be a disgrace if any of the current mob lose their spot to him
 
Game 1 obviously the send off left NSW short and scrambling for edge players so that’s what happened there. Game 2 comfortably in front so

I don’t see him dropping 15kg really adding much value to his play mate. I’m not looking at what he doesn’t offer, I’m looking at what he does offer. He is the leader of the pack that completely ties everything together in the middle. What he does with the ball is still fairly underrated as well. 13 and 8 isn’t really a huge difference in the modern game with the roles they play. I think we are a better side with Jake on the park for 80mins, and Nathan Brown coming on and injecting himself after 20mins or so whichever way we need him.

Ben T, I don’t really understand all the crap he cops. He is still a fairly young guy to the game who has been hampered a bit by not being able to string a consistent run of games together. I like his size as a hole runner, he can be dangerous if the ball players get it right. Choc and Gift weren’t the finished article at 22 with less than 50 games under their belt.

I can understand the talk about speed etc, but there are plenty of ways to skin the cat in rugby league. 10 years ago the common cry was that all wingers now had to be 6’4” and good in the air, any other type the game had passed them by. Brett Morris was still the best winger for years after that while To’o currently doesn’t fit that mould at all and is one of the best wingers the game has seen

P.s- Please never talk about adding Lodge in again. It will be a disgrace if any of the current mob lose their spot to him

But HAVE we been better with Jake and Ben there? I wonder what our win % over the years with them both in the team sits at (particularly with both starting).

With Jake, he isn't getting better. You know what you get. And that's solid. Ben....not sure it's hate mate. We all see the arm grabbing, the lazy ruck play, the lethargic runs, the terrible lateral movement. Anyways, hope he turns it around. 22, there's heaps of room for growth.

Having them BOTH on, plus say Sipley, Aloiai & others (as example) there is zero joke running, line breaking , up tempo footy there. Mix it up, throw Lawton, Brown, there's a bit more.

Lodge, I agree. Since his ACL he's been shocking. Then to get another long term injury - yikes. But he's always been injury prone. We knew what we were getting but I think his contract was a job for the boys. I do think Flanagan will trim him down though.
 

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