To much structure

[Lyonstomenzies]

Win the ruck, win the game. Simple game plan.

 

[Chip and Chase]

I think where we are struggling is in the wrestle. I would have thought since we bought a Melbourne Storm wrestling expert we would see some improvement in that area.....not so. We are getting dominated in the ruck when we have the ball, no quick roll on, no fast play the balls to work off. Then when we are defending teams are just punching through us because we can't slow down their ruck enough for the defence to set, which screws any defensive structure you might be trying to achieve

Like @Lyonstomenzies said, win the ruck go a long way to winning the game. Winning the ruck these days means winning the wrestle.

 

[mave]

Bozo and Zorba have turned this great club around....Its a results driven business.....fark off, Me personally thinks there is a lot of **** still inside, only difference to last year is its NOW not in the media.

Every footy club has egos, agendas, internal bullsht...
From under 6's right through to First Grade.

You are never going to stop it.
Out of the media is exactly where we want it.

 

[Technical Coach]

I think where we are struggling is in the wrestle. I would have thought since we bought a Melbourne Storm wrestling expert we would see some improvement in that area.....not so. We are getting dominated in the ruck when we have the ball, no quick roll on, no fast play the balls to work off. Then when we are defending teams are just punching through us because we can't slow down their ruck enough for the defence to set, which screws any defensive structure you might be trying to achieve

Like @Lyonstomenzies said, win the ruck go a long way to winning the game. Winning the ruck these days means winning the wrestle.

The way Melb have been able to slow the play the ball over the years has been beautiful to watch especially in their least competitive years.

I recall with the new rules interpretations that came in a few years ago mentioning teams will just start to keep players upright and dance around in a tussle as if they are struggling to hear the ref or appear so tangled in the upright dance it takes a while to peel off a "standing upright player".

It is an art form to work out ways to slow the play the ball down, Melb are far more technical and advanced in this area as they have had to be "to remain competitive" due to a lack of size and aggression in their tackles over the years.

The timing of each player entering the tackle is critical and position/point of contact of each player entering to extract as much time out of the upright wrestle or on the ground---every movement has to appear the tackle is not completed when it really is or accidental in prolonging the tackle.

It's more about appearing to have a "genuine" reason to the ref that "the tackle is not completed or it is so tangled it is not all the tacklers fault for causing a slow play the ball"---- like going to court knowing you are guilty so work on creating an element of "doubt" or enough of a reason for the judge to give a lenient judgement---which is what they are really looking for.

Manly in the past have combined elements of Melb's wrestle but balanced that out with dominant defence to slow down the play the ball, without the dominant tackles we are now playing catch up in learning the art to compensate and this will take a long time.

If Manly learn the art and procedures it will help with performance consistency as the more aggressive approach is draining and more injury prone especially if you lack forward depth along with weight/size in the tackle.(playing above your weight)

 

[Snake]

I think where we are struggling is in the wrestle. I would have thought since we bought a Melbourne Storm wrestling expert we would see some improvement in that area.....not so. We are getting dominated in the ruck when we have the ball, no quick roll on, no fast play the balls to work off. Then when we are defending teams are just punching through us because we can't slow down their ruck enough for the defence to set, which screws any defensive structure you might be trying to achieve

Like @Lyonstomenzies said, win the ruck go a long way to winning the game. Winning the ruck these days means winning the wrestle.

This has been mentioned a lot, but he only spent two years working with the Storm FG side; 2014-2015. He wasn't involved in their 2012 Premiership and they leaked the most points of any side in the top 8 during the 2014 season. Granted, they did defend well last year, but I don't think this guy is one of Melbourne's top dogs that slipped through their fingers and into the arms of a rival club...for all we know, the Storm released him?!

 

[Snake]

As far as structure goes, I personally don't see a huge problem with our attack. We have enough natural talent to score points and the combinations will come with time. What does worry me is obviously the defence and I agree that part of it comes down to the wrestle and being beaten in the ruck. The other part that hasn't been mentioned is "first up contact" which goes a long way to nullifying the opposition's dominance of the ruck area.

Watching the way the Eels defended against the Bulldogs on Friday Night is exactly what is required to negate the opposition go-forward and keep the edges from being exposed. The Eels forwards come out absolutely raging with anger and they hit hard and the hits stick. We come out like junior school footballers and arm grab and backpedal. It's something that never used to happen with the likes of Stewart, Watmough, Kite, and King.

I hate the Eels and I hate Arthur, but I envy the intensity that he gets from his forwards. He was able to do it last year as well, but they just lacked that little bit of class to finish off games.

Finally, I think Bennett is a coach who sets up simple structures and within the framework of that structure, his players can do as they please depending on what the defence is doing. You see Milford and Hunt pop up in very similar positions during games, with very similar structures around them, but they do a variety of different things within that framework. They play with so much freedom but it's organised around them.

 

[Technical Coach]

As far as structure goes, I personally don't see a huge problem with our attack. We have enough natural talent to score points and the combinations will come with time. What does worry me is obviously the defence and I agree that part of it comes down to the wrestle and being beaten in the ruck. The other part that hasn't been mentioned is "first up contact" which goes a long way to nullifying the opposition's dominance of the ruck area.

Watching the way the Eels defended against the Bulldogs on Friday Night is exactly what is required to negate the opposition go-forward and keep the edges from being exposed. The Eels forwards come out absolutely raging with anger and they hit hard and the hits stick. We come out like junior school footballers and arm grab and backpedal. It's something that never used to happen with the likes of Stewart, Watmough, Kite, and King.

I hate the Eels and I hate Arthur, but I envy the intensity that he gets from his forwards. He was able to do it last year as well, but they just lacked that little bit of class to finish off games.

Finally, I think Bennett is a coach who sets up simple structures and within the framework of that structure, his players can do as they please depending on what the defence is doing. You see Milford and Hunt pop up in very similar positions during games, with very similar structures around them, but they do a variety of different things within that framework. They play with so much freedom but it's organised around them.

The first up contact is soft because our players are bracing for impact not trying to initiate it,(also due to going backwards but other times just not enough in your face substance) more aggression is needed but you also need the right type of players to make it happen.

It is not just a case of "do it like team X,Y,Z if you don't have the caliber of players to execute such tackles on a consistent effective basis.

 

[Woodsie]

The first up contact is soft because our players are bracing for impact not trying to initiate it,(also due to going backwards but other times just not enough in your face substance) more aggression is needed but you also need the right type of players to make it happen.

It is not just a case of "do it like team X,Y,Z if you don't have the caliber of players to execute such tackles on a consistent effective basis.

Correct. Over the past decade (depending on personnel) Manly have had periods of both up in your face punishing defense and the absorbing smothering defense.

Both can be effective but everybody has to be on the same page and trust his team mates. Don't know what will work with our current crew.

 

[Technical Coach]

Correct. Over the past decade (depending on personnel) Manly have had periods of both up in your face punishing defense and the absorbing smothering defense.

Both can be effective but everybody has to be on the same page and trust his team mates. Don't know what will work with our current crew.

If we lack aggressive in your face ball and all in your face defenders then smothering with numbers but with a higher intensity then what Manly are playing at right now has to be a starting point up the middle.

Problem is every inside shoulder at the moment can't be trusted to make a quality tackle (going off the previous 2yrs and watching small parts of this year) that stops the player in it's tracks which will inevitably compress the defensive line so much there will be way too much space out wide to work with.

 

[Snake]

The first up contact is soft because our players are bracing for impact not trying to initiate it,(also due to going backwards but other times just not enough in your face substance) more aggression is needed but you also need the right type of players to make it happen.

It is not just a case of "do it like team X,Y,Z if you don't have the caliber of players to execute such tackles on a consistent effective basis.

Arthur has a lot of rubbish in his forward pack like Mannah, Kenny Edwards, a fat guy named Junior Paulo, David Gower, Peni Terepo, and Danny Wicks.

We have Kapow, Lawrence, Jake T, L Brown, and Nate Myles; three of which are internationals. Problem is, they're playing like pansies.

 

[maxta]

Simple aggression....line speed is backed up due to losing the contact & defenders backed up losing coordination, communication & mentally on the back foot.

 

[Technical Coach]

Arthur has a lot of rubbish in his forward pack like Mannah, Kenny Edwards, a fat guy named Junior Paulo, David Gower, Peni Terepo, and Danny Wicks.

We have Kapow, Lawrence, Jake T, L Brown, and Nate Myles; three of which are internationals. Problem is, they're playing like pansies.

We are not talking about the overall quality of a player but the style of player and physical attributes that lend itself to a more aggressive ball and all attacking defence.

Losing hardened seasoned professionals such as G.Stewart, Watmough,Kite,King(Ball and all in your face defenders) Big Joe, Foran when he was not playing injured, and even the great technique of Menzies allowed for repetitive consistent tough in your face performances.(along with Ballins toughness)

Kapow has his moments, Lawrence has his moments and was poor the last season or so he played in part due to his back and conserving himself but can we rely on him for a fall season, Nate is workman like, Brown have not seen much of him as i don't watch much Footy these days but comes across workmanlike also.

You can have a rubbish pack but if you play to their combined physical attributes and they are all on the same page playing as one which Woodsie alluded to you can work around certain limitations.

I do agree playing like pansies in some respects but don't confuse that with players who have never tackled or played in a physical manner and it is not their style, it can be a mix of both.

Honestly go through the squad and make a judgement on the type of player they are defensively on a consistent basis in terms of functioning style and you can see there is probably a lack of the size aggressive element depth wise to sustain in your face defence.

 

[NYEagle]

As far as structure goes, I personally don't see a huge problem with our attack. We have enough natural talent to score points and the combinations will come with time. What does worry me is obviously the defence and I agree that part of it comes down to the wrestle and being beaten in the ruck. The other part that hasn't been mentioned is "first up contact" which goes a long way to nullifying the opposition's dominance of the ruck area.

Watching the way the Eels defended against the Bulldogs on Friday Night is exactly what is required to negate the opposition go-forward and keep the edges from being exposed. The Eels forwards come out absolutely raging with anger and they hit hard and the hits stick. We come out like junior school footballers and arm grab and backpedal. It's something that never used to happen with the likes of Stewart, Watmough, Kite, and King.

I hate the Eels and I hate Arthur, but I envy the intensity that he gets from his forwards. He was able to do it last year as well, but they just lacked that little bit of class to finish off games.

Finally, I think Bennett is a coach who sets up simple structures and within the framework of that structure, his players can do as they please depending on what the defence is doing. You see Milford and Hunt pop up in very similar positions during games, with very similar structures around them, but they do a variety of different things within that framework. They play with so much freedom but it's organised around them.

I just watched the first half of the Tigers game and Manly's defence was the worst I've seen since 2005. A rabble. No line speed, and they were back 13 metres every play with no go forward to tackle. Tigers were all over it and run amok.
Plus, to make matter worse, Manly made more metres from their penalties than they did running.
If Manly get with 8 points of the sharks tonight I'd consider it improvement tbh. Usually, I'm back in the Manly camp with tipping by the end of the week, but right now, I don't feel it.
But I'll be screaming tonight and I hope they prove me wrong. Needs a BIG lift.
NYEagle