The only change that can save Des

[Kez]

99% of those juniors Fulton is bringing through are the type of kids that carve up in their age group but soon as they start playing fully grown experienced men,they are found wanting.I’m going go against the tide and say I’m not convinced about Schuster yet.He played 1 half of first grade last year, had 1 no look pass that eventually led to a try,was trigger happy with the boot then got injured.Watched him specifically yesterday and other than playing the full game,it was the same as his first grade debut.I hope he does convince me he’s a star but I can see why Hasler is still reluctant to make him a regular in first grade

I seriously think Des should try his best to get dce, tom and Jake to all take considerable pay cuts. Take off a total of 600K from all three and we’d be able to buy a great winger, and depth hooker. Release Walker, Sironen, Jetski and maybe Taupau as well, then we can buy a great centre, 1 depth second-rower (Davey, Olakautau starting) and a first-line, young lock (Jake to prop in Taupau’s spot). Totally refreshes our squad.

Won’t happen, dce, tom and jake just won’t do it.

Your right and it would show just how manly these guys are..shave 300k from giraffe..200k from hambo and 200k from slowbo and while we are at it dont resign walker let taupau go along with the deadwood and we would have a nice war chest to work with

 

[frank stokes]

I have absolutely no idea who a potential replacement could be. Although some fools on Twitter seem to think that Barrett will quit the Dogs and come back here.

Hahahaha... more chance of Hell freezing over...

oh sh1t, did I just mention religion??!!

 

[hozza]

Des is most definitely under pressure, I’d suggest he has 3 games max to turn it around.

Iv loved Des both as a player and coach and think he is a Manly legend. But no player, no coach, is bigger than the club!

 

[HoldenV8]

I saw a stat that said our average points conceded over that period was like 38 points - over 11 games!!

That is Western Suburbs Magpies (towards the end), Gold Coast Crushers territory!

Even the f*cking Northern Eagles were never that terrible!

Our last 16 competition games (starting with Rd.7 last year)

Cronulla (H) - lost 22 - 40
Newcastle (H) - lost 12 - 14
St George Illawarra (A) - lost 4 - 34
Parramatta (H) - won 22 - 18
North Queensland (A) - won 24 - 12
Penrith (H) - lost 12 - 42
Warriors (H) - lost 22 - 26
Newcastle (A) - lost 24 - 26
South Sydney (A) - lost 16 - 56
Melbourne (A) - lost 6 - 30
Wests Tigers (H) - lost 32 - 34
Canterbury (A) - won 32 - 20
Gold Coast (H) - lost 24 - 42
Warriors (A) - lost 28 - 40
Sydney (A) - lost 4 - 46

The average score in those 13 losses is 15.69 - 33.08
The average score in the 3 wins is 26 - 13.33

Two of those wins were against clubs that finished lower than us on the 2020 ladder.

 

[hozza]

Our last 16 competition games (starting with Rd.7 last year)

Cronulla (H) - lost 22 - 40
Newcastle (H) - lost 12 - 14
St George Illawarra (A) - lost 4 - 34
Parramatta (H) - won 22 - 18
North Queensland (A) - won 24 - 12
Penrith (H) - lost 12 - 42
Warriors (H) - lost 22 - 26
Newcastle (A) - lost 24 - 26
South Sydney (A) - lost 16 - 56
Melbourne (A) - lost 6 - 30
Wests Tigers (H) - lost 32 - 34
Canterbury (A) - won 32 - 20
Gold Coast (H) - lost 24 - 42
Warriors (A) - lost 28 - 40
Sydney (A) - lost 4 - 46

The average score in those 13 losses is 15.69 - 33.08

That’s horrendous reading. Absolutely Des should be under pressure..

 

[frank stokes]

Our last 16 competition games (starting with Rd.7 last year)

Cronulla (H) - lost 22 - 40
Newcastle (H) - lost 12 - 14
St George Illawarra (A) - lost 4 - 34
Parramatta (H) - won 22 - 18
North Queensland (A) - won 24 - 12
Penrith (H) - lost 12 - 42
Warriors (H) - lost 22 - 26
Newcastle (A) - lost 24 - 26
South Sydney (A) - lost 16 - 56
Melbourne (A) - lost 6 - 30
Wests Tigers (H) - lost 32 - 34
Canterbury (A) - won 32 - 20
Gold Coast (H) - lost 24 - 42
Warriors (A) - lost 28 - 40
Sydney (A) - lost 4 - 46

The average score in those 13 losses is 15.69 - 33.08
The average score in the 3 wins is 26 - 13.33

Two of those wins were against clubs that finished lower than us on the 2020 ladder.

My bad... it might have been 36 points over 10 games maybe... still disgusting...

 

[manly al]

Have to take into account the terrible injury factor from mid last season but the usual grit and perseverance from the still available squad was pretty noticeable and lacking from the usually expected level from Des coached sides , at least Manly ones . Think that any suggestion of Des job being on the line now is very misplaced , maybe the mid season point and if things are still grim , could be a different matter then ., and the very ordinary and slack defence , again just so out of character for usual Des coached sides regardless of the personal Wouldn 't even mind Schuster at the lock and move Jake to prop , then with Cust as the 9 , Daley and Foz in the halves , something may improve in the attacking scope . Might have to fast track and try to tie up Saddler long term as well , he is definitely a young player on an upward projectory .

 

[nightster]

Would you rather he gets his development in first grade, even if off the bench? Or have him (and lets face it, his manager) unhappy playing for Blacktown and then get poached by a Chooks or Souffs where he goes on to be a superstar?

you forgot Melbourne

 

[NZEaglesFan]

Our last 16 competition games (starting with Rd.7 last year)

Cronulla (H) - lost 22 - 40
Newcastle (H) - lost 12 - 14
St George Illawarra (A) - lost 4 - 34
Parramatta (H) - won 22 - 18
North Queensland (A) - won 24 - 12
Penrith (H) - lost 12 - 42
Warriors (H) - lost 22 - 26
Newcastle (A) - lost 24 - 26
South Sydney (A) - lost 16 - 56
Melbourne (A) - lost 6 - 30
Wests Tigers (H) - lost 32 - 34
Canterbury (A) - won 32 - 20
Gold Coast (H) - lost 24 - 42
Warriors (A) - lost 28 - 40
Sydney (A) - lost 4 - 46

The average score in those 13 losses is 15.69 - 33.08
The average score in the 3 wins is 26 - 13.33

Two of those wins were against clubs that finished lower than us on the 2020 ladder.

Since the Covid break last year – round 4 onwards including the trial against West Tigers and this weeks game, we have played 19 games and, in these games, we have conceded 575 points (average 30.26) and scored 352 points(average 18.53).

Commentators and coaches always say defence is all about attitude and if this is the case then does our stat show “I don’t give a s**t attitude on part of the team.

I know not having Fainu and Tom does not help, but we either need to learn to play without these two or needed to recruit players to cover their spot. Walker is not a fullback and Crocker offers nothing as a starting hooker, but Des should know this already. Does it mean that Des has failed to evolve with the game, and you can see from his selection and signing of players while at Canterbury and since his return to Manly.

I also noticed from the matches I watched in the weekend, all the other teams seem to be running and hitting so my harder than us (even Dragons and Broncos) and we looked so lethargic. Could this say something about our fitness?

Lets hope Des and his coaching staff are able to figure a way out of this rut otherwise it will be a long long year and if this is the case, there needs to be a major cleanout at the end of the year including the coach, some one season wonders at the club and we also need to look at the value we are getting from some high profile /highly paid players.

One last thing I noticed, is Jake becoming our Gallen where he gets the ball too often in sech set?

 

[nightster]

Davey needs to start ... Sirro off the bench, unfortunately Quac is now on the injured list after that nasty one yesterday ... Saddler needs to be in the squad ...he is a worker

 

[hozza]

Have to take into account the terrible injury factor from mid last season but the usual grit and perseverance from the still available squad was pretty noticeable and lacking from the usually expected level from Des coached sides , at least Manly ones . Think that any suggestion of Des job being on the line now is very misplaced , maybe the mid season point and if things are still grim , could be a different matter then ., and the very ordinary and slack defence , again just so out of character for usual Des coached sides regardless of the personal Wouldn 't even mind Schuster at the lock and move Jake to prop , then with Cust as the 9 , Daley and Foz in the halves , something may improve in the attacking scope . Might have to fast track and try to tie up Saddler long term as well , he is definitely a young player on an upward projectory .

Sorry mate, by mid season we’ll have the spoon in the bag. And that’s not acceptable. I have absolutely no doubt he only has a handful of games to turn it around. Regardless of injury..

The blow torch is well and truly on him, as it should be.

 

[Brisbane Tragic]

First of all, I acknowledge the fans who are pleading for stability and recommending we persist with Hasler for at least the time being, not only is that logic sound it's backed up by the reality of the situation as it would stand if Hasler was gone now, there are no proven coaches available that can parachute themselves in and get this lineup firing, I am reluctant to refer to our players as sh#t despite the obvious fact they're not up to first grade standard.

In my opinion, and please note this post is an opinion and I'm not a professional rugby league analyst, tactician or anything of the like, but from my experience following the game before I could even muster an expletive at the television in reaction - I think the primary issue is a combination of the following in descending order.

1. Poor recruitment - when is the last time a professional pundit has said anything contrary to our glaring lack of depth.
2. Poor team selection - it's obvious the experience over potential experiment has run its course and failed, this is not a reactionary observation, just review the last few seasons where underperforming players were consistently chosen due to the perceived ability of handling NRL level football.
3. Poor salary cap management - I love DCE, the Turbo brothers and Marty, but at the overall percentage of our cap they absorb in my opinion can no longer be ignored, especially compared to other successful teams.

I don't think Des is a horrible coach, I believe that a successful team is made up of many parts, from the front house to the field working together, meeting or exceeding potential to create something that results in the sum of all parts being worth more then the individuals within it.

If Des cannot address the poor recruitment (Fulton), institute some kind of selection panel, whatever that may resemble and make some tough calls around our marquee players I truly believe that is when the buck stops with him and amendments need to be made.

Now I hate to say it because I love this club just as much as you or anyone else, but considering my opinions unless there are drastic updates to the operations of our football department, there will be drastic, and very damaging changes to personnel which may take a lot longer to fix than the aforementioned.

Just my 2c. I'm not, nor pretending to speak as an authority on the matter - this is my opinion and an observant yet passionate layman.

I am not sure the recruitment is poor - we are bringing through some great young talent - but the transition between then and now hasn't been great but then again there has to be players on the market that actually fit what we want to be able to sign them. It is no good just rushing out and grabbing someone for the sake of it. Mind you the signing of Lawnton does raise eyebrows.

 

[Franko]

If Fainu is found guilty do we get that money back off the cap?

 

[manly al]

Sorry mate, by mid season we’ll have the spoon in the bag. And that’s not acceptable. I have absolutely no doubt he only has a handful of games to turn it around. Regardless of injury..

The blow torch is well and truly on him, as it should be.

Naturally could not rule anything out but then who would be available to just slot in then and not cause too much disruption and to be able to impart something better . But can see your point if spoon territory is looming . B T W should have mentioned trajectory instead of projectory ; bit of a lapse there ] bit like Manly 's present defence or should that be overall form .

 

[The Who]

Re the Shoe: Yes, he had a quiet match for Blacktown on Sunday but I have watched him enough coming through the ranks to see he has talent reserved for a special few.

 

[Ranga]

If Fainu is found guilty to we get that money back off the cap?

Yes. His contract will be terminated. But everything he is paid up until that point will come under the cap.

 

[Deleted member 26876]

Your right and it would show just how manly these guys are..shave 300k from giraffe..200k from hambo and 200k from slowbo and while we are at it dont resign walker let taupau go along with the deadwood and we would have a nice war chest to work with

If Jake, Tom and Dce truly love the club and lead by example they would do it. I’m not so sure they could put their financial interests aside to make it happen. But if we want to quickly transition back into a successful side (aka by next season), they need to seriously consider it.

At the end of the day it isn’t the money that will stick with them, it is their success/legacy. If dce keeps losing and looking like a headless chook, and if tom/jake never taste gf success, it’ll be a waste of everyone’s time and money

 

[Budgie]

I seriously think Des should try his best to get dce, tom and Jake to all take considerable pay cuts.

Des: Hey guys, I need to save my job and in doing so, earn even more money without being accountable. How about you all take a massive pay cut for me? You're young, you can make it up throughout your life, whereas me ...
Crickets.

 

[manly al]

Re the Shoe: Yes, he had a quiet match for Blacktown on Sunday but I have watched him enough coming through the ranks to see he has talent reserved for a special few.

Big body too so really can not see why he can not be regarded as a lock or back rower and where he also played at different stages in the juniors . Cam Murray is not a big guy but is still a very capable 13 . Sure that Schuster can manage the role well if Foz continues as the 6

 

[HoldenV8]

Since the Covid break last year – round 4 onwards including the trial against West Tigers and this weeks game, we have played 19 games and, in these games, we have conceded 575 points (average 30.26) and scored 352 points(average 18.53).

Commentators and coaches always say defence is all about attitude and if this is the case then does our stat show “I don’t give a s**t attitude on part of the team.

I know not having Fainu and Tom does not help, but we either need to learn to play without these two or needed to recruit players to cover their spot. Walker is not a fullback and Crocker offers nothing as a starting hooker, but Des should know this already. Does it mean that Des has failed to evolve with the game, and you can see from his selection and signing of players while at Canterbury and since his return to Manly.

I also noticed from the matches I watched in the weekend, all the other teams seem to be running and hitting so my harder than us (even Dragons and Broncos) and we looked so lethargic. Could this say something about our fitness?

Lets hope Des and his coaching staff are able to figure a way out of this rut otherwise it will be a long long year and if this is the case, there needs to be a major cleanout at the end of the year including the coach, some one season wonders at the club and we also need to look at the value we are getting from some high profile /highly paid players.

One last thing I noticed, is Jake becoming our Gallen where he gets the ball too often in sech set?

Interestingly, Des was at the Blacktown game yesterday so he saw first hand how the likes of both Cust and Schuster went. We'll have to wait and see what side is selected tomorrow and which way the team runs out next Saturday against the Vermin.

With regards to the teams fitness ... we did look gassed on Saturday which does bring things into question. I know it was a warm day in Sydney, but our players looked very underdone compared to the Chooks. We competed for the first 20 or so, then they just blew us away.

Jake ... to me he looked a bit lost in attack on Saturday. Normally he's been our first receiver, but with Walker at fullback playing like an extra 5/8 in the line and also Foran in the side, he was essentially just doing hit ups which TBH has never been the strongest part of his game (for all the talk of his natural strength, he does get put on the ground rather easily). And when he does that, yes like Gallen he tends to take more hit ups than he should. One per set is fine, but not two and especially not on the 4th or 5th.

To that end we are also getting little from our highest paid. DCE had a shocker and played like someone who hasn't taken the field in the 4 months since Origin, Jake has been reduced to being just a tackler and hit up merchant, and for all intents and purposes Tom has played one game in the past 10-11 months, and he didn't even finish that one because he got injured again.

We are definitely a team under pressure and the next 2-3 weeks will be telling. Our next 3 games are against Souffs at home, St Merge in Wollongong where we traditionally have struggled, and Penrith at home. Unless we make a dramatic turnaround, at best I see us maybe, but not likely, beating St Merge, but that's it. We could very easily by 0-4 and that will effectively be the end of us in 2021. And it could also spell the end for Des.