The elephant in the Room...

[wombatgc]

On this one I know I going to get bagged, but I think Barrett has done OK job as coach. The club has had crap hanging over it and the players for years. It ain't his coaching that caused this.
Why don't we let the crap settle down, find out what the club has to work with before we crucify the lot of them?

Consider yourself bagged SL!
Getting your playmakers kicking it into touch on purpose.....that was the final nail in Trentys coffin for me.

 

[wedgetail eagle]

Maybe it’s like the Noah’s Ark story.
His Mrs said to him,
can we talk about the 2 elephants in the room?

 

[40 years an eagle]

Would have been nice if you had at least "like"d my post here before you used it as your template to start this thread.

1. By:40 YEARS AN EAGLE- Wednesday at 2:12 PM
   Well-Known Member
   
   
   3M for TT JT and DCE
   850k for Kapow
   1.2M for Dylan and Thommo
   6 players at the 100k minimum
   Api and Sirro upgrade contracts sitting on Greenturd's desk: guess 800k
   
   Leaves about 2.8.M for the other 16 players for our 30, about 175k per. Maybe 7 of those will need to be new signings.
   
   Factoring in the anomalies of uneven yearly pay contracts will possibly even out eachother after Kapow's big last year backending is paid, maybe.
   
   These are all quantum guesses based on the unconfirmed ramblings of us on here but it will not be MILES out.
   For 2019+ we will be spending something like 5,8M of our 9M adjusted cap on our top 8 players, leaving something like 3.2M plus change to pay 22 other guys.
   
   It doesn't look too pretty to me.

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[double hoops]

If our cap is this bad. How was the club going to afford Pearce as well?

 

[Kevinward777]

Tom signed 3 years for $2.7 million and Jake 3 years for $2.1 million.

Where are you getting $1 million each per season?

Not sure how many times it has been mentioned in here, but DCE is under a million a year on the cap after TPAs.

As if Turbo and Jake are on overs... I’m sure if we put them on the market tomorrow for the price we’re paying, clubs would be falling over the top of themselves to sign them up. Every club now has at least three players on massive coin. Penrith signed Tamou for 850k a season ffs, and the great minds on here want to complain about Jake being on 700k a season.

 

[40 years an eagle]

Not sure how many times it has been mentioned in here, but DCE is under a million a year on the cap after TPAs.

DCE's club contract rises as the salary cap increases so it grows per cap increase. Next year is his third increase from whatever his starting money was. I sincerely doubt his TPA's are anywhere near 300k/year for 10 years and he is rumoured to be on 1.3M now. So he is realistically taking up 1.1M+ of our cap. 1.1+, +900, + 700 = 2.7+. That's close enough to 3M for me.

Are there any sources for DCE's ACTUAL cap earnings beyond "Not sure how many times it has been mentioned in here", or for his TPA values to base your claim on?

 

[Oracle]

This incessant drum beat that we need a organising 5/8 is more myth then fact.
Consider the teams below us they all have organising halves to die for ?.....apparently.

Let's not forget Hodko his arrival was meant to have appeased the screaming voices for a organising 5/8 ....true.??? ..well how has that worked for us.
I have no doubt Dce got sucked into thinking that as well and it would not surprise me if he threw a tantrum to get him here.

Baz must be seething at how things have gone, if only we had won with our organising saviour at 5/8 .....Hodko would still be there instead of Walkz.
Baz must be thinking what a waste of money, ...we could have upgraded Lane.

Now he is recycling a centre as a 5/8 to carry the hopes of the team, who apparently can't organise diddly squat.
It just shows the semantics around 5/8 means diddly squat when it comes to winning
Turbo selected as a winger in SOO remains a moot point with critics..but they won.

We are a team that appears mentally fatigued and of late showing signs of early physical fatigue during games, symptomatic of over coaching IMO.
Nothing kills a players natural instincts, enthusiasm and feel for the game quicker if they have been over coached.....relinquish your grip Baz...and let them play.
If Baz wants our team to return to our winning ways against the Panthers ? He needs to rethink TomW inclusion, his obvious talents aside ..just his sheer joy and enthusiasm alone will lift the team.
Onwards and upwards for the win.

 

[HoldenV8]

I believe we need a genuine organising half and until we find one - we are never going to be a threat. I’d also suggest we need to rely on the best of the young guys to rebuild around and get our cap in order. Fainu, Anderson, Suli, Paseka, Tom Wright, and possibly Metcalf and Olakau’atu should be in the 17 at some point next year.

The sad part is that Hodko IS an organising half, but with the roles that Barrett has them playing he is not being given the chance to do that. When we signed Hodko, I like probably most of us thought great, an organising half who can free Cherry up to play his more natural style of game, but it hasn't happened because our so called coach has had Hodko playing like Croker did - hand off's to lumbering forwards and the odd short kick while still having DCE to run the side.

Barrett has stated often that "this is DCE's team". Sure, all well and good as he's the captain and arguably the senior player in the group. But for crying out loud, did DCE's form being much better last year with Green doing the organising not open Barrett's eyes to the fact that Cherry plays his best football when he doesn't have to try and point the team around the park?

I'm not for one moment saying Hodkinson is the answer, especially long term, to our need for an organising halves partner for DCE. But for now allowing him to fill that role would be a BIG step in the right direction.

This weeks selection of Walker at 5/8 (despite that with him at pivot we did manage to beat Brisbane and Melbourne) with Hodko on the bench shows me that Barrett seems to have run out of ideas.

 

[Sue]

I know people are happy with Walker at 6 - I am not one of them. He is a centre, not a long term option in the halves. We win two games and suddenly he is our answer at 5/8. I just don’t see it - defences will work him out very quickly as he is a running threat only. He isn’t much of a passer and can’t kick effectively at all.

I believe we need a genuine organising half and until we find one - we are never going to be a threat. I’d also suggest we need to rely on the best of the young guys to rebuild around and get our cap in order. Fainu, Anderson, Suli, Paseka, Tom Wright, and possibly Metcalf and Olakau’atu should be in the 17 at some point next year.

I’d let Tafua go - often injured, struggles with the high ball, very slow play the balls, slow to get back into position defensively and would be on decent money. I wouldn’t re-sign Siro - too injury prone and we just aren’t getting return on our investment. Perrett should also be released (if not off contract). We will see Jono Wright, Brown, Matt Wright and possibly Winterstein all move on.

We can make it work with the players we have available plus one new organising half and a refreshed coaching staff. We need some bold moves from the front office and we need them soon, otherwise we will be having these same discussions next year.

I would also be ensuring we do not lose young Schuster and Hopoate and factor in salary cap planning for these youngsters in two/three years time as they will be 18/19 years old and pushing for first grade. Two superstars in the making right there.

Even if Walker improves as a five eight it is not a long term option. And the reason is simple. With Walker at 5/8 we have ONE KICKER FFS because our hooker can’t kick either. If anyone thinks we can be a force in this competition long term with one kicker in general play is absolutely kidding themselves. It’s a joke. One of the reasons DCE is a headless chook at times is because he knows me has to take every f...ing kick and the opposition knows it.We need a fit healthy competent five eight with a kicking game if they want Api at 9.And it’s not Hodkinson as the past few games has shown. Tom Wright can kick. Can he do it well enough. Let’s find out ffs. It’s that simple.

Those who want Walker at 5/8 bettr hope Fainu takes over from Api because that’s the only possible way it could work.

 

[Wombat64]

I thought the elephant in the room was Zorba?

 

[Fluffy]

I think the issue with Turbo is that he is trying too hard (in a team getting beaten badly), and then open to pushing the play and then making errors. Playing SOO and being around the Aust team will fix that. It's called experience.

Also at the end of the day the difference between the top 8 and the rest (except Parra) is a thing called injuries.

On this one I know I going to get bagged, but I think Barrett has done OK job as coach. The club has had crap hanging over it and the players for years. It ain't his coaching that caused this.
Why don't we let the crap settle down, find out what the club has to work with before we crucify the lot of them?

I am still out on Barrett, last year he made the 8 with the million $ handicap of Stewart and Matai, this year he has almost the same handicap of Myles and salary cap. None of which he was part of organizing.

I also wonder about the quality of those around him - is he getting who and what he needs in his staff or is that being dictated to him as well.

 

[mjb136]

The Turbos are both origin players and international's and are only young, we have not paid overs because once they are in their prime we will be happy we kept them. As far as I am concerned 700k for Jake being the best Australian and 2nd best forward in the game is a bargain. Tom's cash is questionable but he is in a key position and has been hit with injury the last 2 years but when he strings games together without injury he is the most destructive player in the game. I'd say both of the Turbos cash is probably exactly how much we should have paid. Daly is not an origin and international and is frankly not playing well enough, he is our marquee man and should be running the team but isn't plus has got 500k more then both Turbos. He is under the most pressure not because of his pay but his position and form.

Have you changed your name?

 

[Disco]

These sort of threads always amuse me.

With TPA's, front ended contracts, back ended deals, marquee player allowances, long serving playing allowances, clubs paying to move players on and sensationalist media articles who has any idea what players are on

 

[Nice Beaver]

DCE's club contract rises as the salary cap increases so it grows per cap increase. Next year is his third increase from whatever his starting money was. I sincerely doubt his TPA's are anywhere near 300k/year for 10 years and he is rumoured to be on 1.3M now. So he is realistically taking up 1.1M+ of our cap. 1.1+, +900, + 700 = 2.7+. That's close enough to 3M for me.

Are there any sources for DCE's ACTUAL cap earnings beyond "Not sure how many times it has been mentioned in here", or for his TPA values to base your claim on?

I'd say as many sources available as those who say he takes up $1 million + of actual cap space.
But its sport on here to s*it on DCE so I will get back in my corner.
And that's not to say I think he is anywhere near earning his keep this season.

 

[manly al]

The issue with Walker continuing as a 5 / 8 is again who is out there available to be acquired for next season or so and as a suitable 5/ 8 proposition but agree that at this stage it would be more recommended to see how Tom Wright goes as a 5 / 8 and to be able to gain some experience and game management , even if it includes interchanging with Walker when appropriate . Really do not think that a lack of a supposedly effective alternative kicker is contributing to D C E 's loss of form this year , his whole playing mind set and application has been seriously out of whack this season and he on all normal expectation should be capable of largely rectifying it .

 

[Andyvb88]

When we had our full team on the field earlier this year we looked dangerous. We have been smashed with injuries and with all the contract issues in the media (not players or coaches fault) we were never going to perform. The year snake was in trouble (found innocent) we had a **** year. I am happy to give Trent another year to show potential

 

[Andyvb88]

Dce contract goes up with the cap but it’s percentage based so he will always take up the same percentage of the cap every year

 

[Sue]

The issue with Walker continuing as a 5 / 8 is again who is out there available to be acquired for next season or so and as a suitable 5/ 8 proposition but agree that at this stage it would be more recommended to see how Tom Wright goes as a 5 / 8 and to be able to gain some experience and game management , even if it includes interchanging with Walker when appropriate . Really do not think that a lack of a supposedly effective alternative kicker is contributing to D C E 's loss of form this year , his whole playing mind set and application has been seriously out of whack this season and he on all normal expectation should be capable of largely rectifying it .

There is not a single team in the NRL with one kicker. It’s not hard to work out why.

1. The opposition know he’s going to get it and pressure is easy.

2 He can’t afford to get tackled on 5th tackle so that limits our options on what is usually the set where sides try things

3 if he gets hurt we have no kicker for rest of the match.

4Ingoal kicks for repeat sets are so easy to defend because they know which side he’s going. Hence we get very few !

I don’t care who the halfback is. Try winning pressure matches when the above 4 apply.

Having a 9 who can’t kick makes five eight extra crucial. Smith Hodgson Cook etc allows so much more variety. We have no such luxury and need another kicker.

 

[Oracle]

The sad part is that Hodko IS an organising half, but with the roles that Barrett has them playing he is not being given the chance to do that. When we signed Hodko, I like probably most of us thought great, an organising half who can free Cherry up to play his more natural style of game, but it hasn't happened because our so called coach has had Hodko playing like Croker did - hand off's to lumbering forwards and the odd short kick while still having DCE to run the side.

Barrett has stated often that "this is DCE's team". Sure, all well and good as he's the captain and arguably the senior player in the group. But for crying out loud, did DCE's form being much better last year with Green doing the organising not open Barrett's eyes to the fact that Cherry plays his best football when he doesn't have to try and point the team around the park?

I'm not for one moment saying Hodkinson is the answer, especially long term, to our need for an organising halves partner for DCE. But for now allowing him to fill that role would be a BIG step in the right direction.

This weeks selection of Walker at 5/8 (despite that with him at pivot we did manage to beat Brisbane and Melbourne) with Hodko on the bench shows me that Barrett seems to have run out of ideas.

Let me get this straight Hodko is a organising 5/8 which everyone was screaming out for ......correct ?
Well,! You got your wish, but suddenly a few losses later everyone wants us to get another 5/8 ...sheesh ! ..so we just flushed $700 000 down the drain ?..bloody madness !
But hang on ?..it's Trents fault for coaching him the way he is playing...well that just takes the cake.
Using that logic his coaching obviously worked with Green last year, but since then he decided to f...k things up with Croker and Hodko.....yea right.
Those of us who are astute enough to know, Dce has had to much to say about who comes and who go's in this team and without a doubt he pushed for Hodko, so you have to ask who really is the problem ???...now that he hasn't worked out.
2,3 elephants ?.....nah only 1 elephant in the room.
Since 2011 our winning percentages has gone down with Dce in the play maker roll
that's a fact.

 

[manly al]

D C E should have enough smarts by now to set up an attacking play or give some direction to avoid being in that position . When he was more switched on in the Broncos game for instance and the side was playing with some real purpose , Manly 's field position and kicking game did not seem to be issue . Let"s see how Fainu goes if he is given that opportunity and at least with Walker actually taking on the defence as is his tendency , this should take some pressure off D C E if this has contributed something to his form loss .