The elephant in the Room...

[EagleFlys]

3 million dollars spent on three players that cannot deliver wins.

We often blame DCE for the enormity of his individual contract, but the reality is, we have screwed up monumentally on 3 players, not just 1.

Some posters have eluded to the Turbos being overpaid, not because they don't put in of course, but because they are either too green or not in themselves good enough to win games on their own.
(TT might one day, Jake will never be in that position as a lock/FRF.)

So bagging out DCE is a now a Silvertails and national RL sport, but the reality is DCE is no more than an overpaid Munster and needs the help of a Smith a Slater and a Cronk. The game changed thanks to those guys.

Our next 2 highest paid players are a prop and a centre.
There goes another 1.25 m of cap. (Marty 600, Dylan 650) and neither are spine.

4.25 mil out the door for 5 players. So 5m for 25 remaining players @ 200k each.
4.25 mil on 1 proven spine player, 1 green spine player with talent, and the rest on positions that matter, but can't in themselves win a premiership (or a regular match on their own).

I have no doubt we paid overs for Jake and Tom (sadly and I don't know why). Maybe Penn/ BOZO the clown was so scared they would leave, and us fans would revolt, that they paid a potential market+ rate.

We paid overs for DCE definitely, and that sits on Penn and BOZO the administrator Clown together (1.3m paid v 800K withdrawn). But we are on the cusp of paying overs for Dylan (650K for what he has delivered is not acceptable). However, on the plus side (1 of 5) @600 -650 for Marty is at least evens (especially with Woods new contract).

So, the Elephant in the room is not just DCE. It is DCE + the turbos, plus the encroaching irrelevants.
And it will not end until we miraculously create a spine ala 2010/1, or sadly remove people.

Twenty Bwarret maybe a **** coach, with **** game plans, but he has a **** side; all things considered.

 

[ricardo]

Spine of DCE, Turbo Api and Walker is fine and has DELIVERED a couple of wins this year. Fainu the new saviour and we have Hodko on the bench...We are aces

 

[The Wheel]

You make some good points- Probably why the club is currently recruiting a NRL Recruitment/List Manger at the moment.

This (the current list of players) was part of Bozo role at the club

 

[Sheikheagle]

I think Tom is being paid on potential at the moment but Jake T is being paid fair coin as he is now one of the elite forwards in the game. He is the player we need to build the team around (not DCE ) and is the heart and soul of the club.

 

[Holmsey]

The Turbos are both origin players and international's and are only young, we have not paid overs because once they are in their prime we will be happy we kept them. As far as I am concerned 700k for Jake being the best Australian and 2nd best forward in the game is a bargain. Tom's cash is questionable but he is in a key position and has been hit with injury the last 2 years but when he strings games together without injury he is the most destructive player in the game. I'd say both of the Turbos cash is probably exactly how much we should have paid. Daly is not an origin and international and is frankly not playing well enough, he is our marquee man and should be running the team but isn't plus has got 500k more then both Turbos. He is under the most pressure not because of his pay but his position and form.

 

[Class of 96]

Works for Melbourne.

 

[niccipops]

I think Tom is being paid on potential at the moment but Jake T is being paid fair coin as he is now one of the elite forwards in the game. He is the player we need to build the team around (not DCE ) and is the heart and soul of the club.

Jake Turbo is awesome. I've become a massive fan of him. Watching him play origin shows just what he can do surrounded by quality. He gives 110% for Manly even though we're currently a rabble. I can't wait to see him play in a decent Manly side.

 

[Clay]

Was expecting a photo of zorba at the buffet

 

[Class of 96]

Jake Turbo is awesome. I've become a massive fan of him. Watching him play origin shows just what he can do surrounded by quality. He gives 110% for Manly even though we're currently a rabble. I can't wait to see him play in a decent Manly side.

So pleased you added Manly before side

 

[niccipops]

So pleased you added Manly before side

Of course. He belongs at Manly.

 

[Fluffy]

A good thread looking to discuss something rather than just throw insults out. It will get few replies.

DCE has been discussed ad nausuem and imo you have nailed it, at 800-900K that he signed for before Manly pulled the offer we wouldn't feel the same way.

I think Jake is a good deal for us but we are paying overs for Tom right now, can attack for sure but his defence/organisation is not improving which is the real worry, still playing like a very good centre.

So we are effectively paying 2 centres spine money and neither right now are delivering to their pay level.

 

[Peter C]

If you compare our side to say .the Dragons, out of our side the only player I would say who is playing above his pay packet would be Api, there would be a few playing on par with their pay but a he'll of a lot playing below.
Out of the Dragons, the only player playing below his pay would probably be Ben Hunt, and that is debatable also, due to his very high contract.
Guys like Widdop, DeBelin ,Vaughan, Aitken ,Dufty,McDonald,Sims etc etc are all killing it this year

 

[Nice Beaver]

3 million dollars spent on three players that cannot deliver wins.

We often blame DCE for the enormity of his individual contract, but the reality is, we have screwed up monumentally on 3 players, not just 1.

Some posters have eluded to the Turbos being overpaid, not because they don't put in of course, but because they are either too green or not in themselves good enough to win games on their own.
(TT might one day, Jake will never be in that position as a lock/FRF.)

So bagging out DCE is a now a Silvertails and national RL sport, but the reality is DCE is no more than an overpaid Munster and needs the help of a Smith a Slater and a Cronk. The game changed thanks to those guys.

Our next 2 highest paid players are a prop and a centre.
There goes another 1.25 m of cap. (Marty 600, Dylan 650) and neither are spine.

4.25 mil out the door for 5 players. So 5m for 25 remaining players @ 200k each.
4.25 mil on 1 proven spine player, 1 green spine player with talent, and the rest on positions that matter, but can't in themselves win a premiership (or a regular match on their own).

I have no doubt we paid overs for Jake and Tom (sadly and I don't know why). Maybe Penn/ BOZO the clown was so scared they would leave, and us fans would revolt, that they paid a potential market+ rate.

We paid overs for DCE definitely, and that sits on Penn and BOZO the administrator Clown together (1.3m paid v 800K withdrawn). But we are on the cusp of paying overs for Dylan (650K for what he has delivered is not acceptable). However, on the plus side (1 of 5) @600 -650 for Marty is at least evens (especially with Woods new contract).

So, the Elephant in the room is not just DCE. It is DCE + the turbos, plus the encroaching irrelevants.
And it will not end until we miraculously create a spine ala 2010/1, or sadly remove people.

Twenty Bwarret maybe a **** coach, with **** game plans, but he has a **** side; all things considered.

Tom signed 3 years for $2.7 million and Jake 3 years for $2.1 million.

Where are you getting $1 million each per season?

Not sure how many times it has been mentioned in here, but DCE is under a million a year on the cap after TPAs.

 

[tookey]

Never been the same since Watmough left the club

 

[Chip and Chase]

The killer with DCE isn't necessarily the amount he is on, it's the length of the contract. If we picked him up on that original offer I'm betting it was a shorter term contract, the lesser amount of money was just a bonus IMO. He holds all the cards now and we are forced to build around him, that really limits our options. Even if we want to go through a 5 year plan and rebuild, he has to be the cornerstone of it. We can't wait a year or two and move him on. We put all our eggs in that basket, so you have to be dead sure it's a the right decision. His form the last two seasons suggests it wasn't a great idea.

I'm Ok with paying Kapow 600K if that is what he is pulling. That's OK coin when compared to what was bandied around for Woods recently. I just get the impression this year that he isn't happy and therefore his form is off. He doesn't look invested in the team.

You have to remember we bought Walker as a 5/8, so that amount for a spine player isn't unreasonable. Bozo was trumpeting him as our saviour at 6, it didn't work out so he goes back to centre. That was a recruitment mistake most likely, but I quite like that Trent has picked him at 6 now, it gives him another shot at showing if he indeed can be an option there.

Tommy hasn't come on as quickly as we (or I) may have hoped, his passing game hasn't improved so he lets us down there. His running game is quality though. He suffers with comparisons to Ponga, which is a little unfair as that kid is looking like a freak. I think Turbo is worth the coin as an investment for the future. If he can work on his ball playing then he will be a superstar because he can create opportunities, he just doesn't have the skill set to capitalise on them presently.

Jake is an 80 minute machine that is worth whatever we are paying him IMO. He is rock solid in defence and gives us options in attack with his ball playing. Freddie gave him a wrap after Sunday saying he was the key to NSW's win. He is the foundation we build our pack around for another decade.

 

[pjayz]

The killer with DCE isn't necessarily the amount he is on, it's the length of the contract. If we picked him up on that original offer I'm betting it was a shorter term contract, the lesser amount of money was just a bonus IMO. He holds all the cards now and we are forced to build around him, that really limits our options. Even if we want to go through a 5 year plan and rebuild, he has to be the cornerstone of it. We can't wait a year or two and move him on. We put all our eggs in that basket, so you have to be dead sure it's a the right decision. His form the last two seasons suggests it wasn't a great idea.

I'm Ok with paying Kapow 600K if that is what he is pulling. That's OK coin when compared to what was bandied around for Woods recently. I just get the impression this year that he isn't happy and therefore his form is off. He doesn't look invested in the team.

You have to remember we bought Walker as a 5/8, so that amount for a spine player isn't unreasonable. Bozo was trumpeting him as our saviour at 6, it didn't work out so he goes back to centre. That was a recruitment mistake most likely, but I quite like that Trent has picked him at 6 now, it gives him another shot at showing if he indeed can be an option there.

Tommy hasn't come on as quickly as we (or I) may have hoped, his passing game hasn't improved so he lets us down there. His running game is quality though. He suffers with comparisons to Ponga, which is a little unfair as that kid is looking like a freak. I think Turbo is worth the coin as an investment for the future. If he can work on his ball playing then he will be a superstar because he can create opportunities, he just doesn't have the skill set to capitalise on them presently.

Jake is an 80 minute machine that is worth whatever we are paying him IMO. He is rock solid in defence and gives us options in attack with his ball playing. Freddie gave him a wrap after Sunday saying he was the key to NSW's win. He is the foundation we build our pack around for another decade.

The only thing I disagree with is that DCE was in excellent form last year and played at his contract value. This year is a very different story.

 

[Supreme Leader]

Spine of DCE, Turbo Api and Walker is fine and has DELIVERED a couple of wins this year. Fainu the new saviour and we have Hodko on the bench...We are aces

But Api & Fainu are both hookers? Are you going to play one as 5/8

 

[Chip and Chase]

The only thing I disagree with is that DCE was in excellent form last year and played at his contract value. This year is a very different story.

His form was better last year I agree, but he still didn't have that consistency and match presence that you'd expect from a marquee half on a lifetime contract. The team as a whole was probably playing better which covered some of his shortcomings, and he is a much better front runner than scrapper. He never lacks effort, just execution at crucial times.

 

[Supreme Leader]

I think the issue with Turbo is that he is trying too hard (in a team getting beaten badly), and then open to pushing the play and then making errors. Playing SOO and being around the Aust team will fix that. It's called experience.

Also at the end of the day the difference between the top 8 and the rest (except Parra) is a thing called injuries.

On this one I know I going to get bagged, but I think Barrett has done OK job as coach. The club has had crap hanging over it and the players for years. It ain't his coaching that caused this.
Why don't we let the crap settle down, find out what the club has to work with before we crucify the lot of them?

 

[pjayz]

I know people are happy with Walker at 6 - I am not one of them. He is a centre, not a long term option in the halves. We win two games and suddenly he is our answer at 5/8. I just don’t see it - defences will work him out very quickly as he is a running threat only. He isn’t much of a passer and can’t kick effectively at all.

I believe we need a genuine organising half and until we find one - we are never going to be a threat. I’d also suggest we need to rely on the best of the young guys to rebuild around and get our cap in order. Fainu, Anderson, Suli, Paseka, Tom Wright, and possibly Metcalf and Olakau’atu should be in the 17 at some point next year.

I’d let Tafua go - often injured, struggles with the high ball, very slow play the balls, slow to get back into position defensively and would be on decent money. I wouldn’t re-sign Siro - too injury prone and we just aren’t getting return on our investment. Perrett should also be released (if not off contract). We will see Jono Wright, Brown, Matt Wright and possibly Winterstein all move on.

We can make it work with the players we have available plus one new organising half and a refreshed coaching staff. We need some bold moves from the front office and we need them soon, otherwise we will be having these same discussions next year.

I would also be ensuring we do not lose young Schuster and Hopoate and factor in salary cap planning for these youngsters in two/three years time as they will be 18/19 years old and pushing for first grade. Two superstars in the making right there.