Single biggest issue…

[Fibro Eagle]

I voted forward mobility
I'm more to the forwards about play the ball speed it also can relate to the backs as well . Quick play the balls work well when the players around push up as well , I don't see that a lot in this team either
This team does a lot of one out plays
Good teams get a roll on and back up ,Manly lack in this department

 

[Rocky]

I think the answer to the forward conundrum involves junior recruitment. Chasing big name forwards (like Payne Haas) with our salary cap is impossible. I like the Aloiai signing because he has some leg speed and did not break the bank but to get 2-3 others, we probably need to look internally. I know Taupau and Davey are leaving, but Boyle, Keppie, Paseka, Sipley and De Luis are not the right kind of props for the speed of the current game. Each have had their moments and played well enough on occasions, but not consistently.

Sipley will come out and play 1 really good game and we talk about his improvement. The following week, you wouldn't know he'd played. The same goes for Paseka and co. Bullemor should be moved into the prop rotation next season. We need to stop blooding big, slow forwards and start investing our junior dollars in athletic and mobile forwards.

Do you think the issues you are talking about stems from Des' biases/preference in terms of what "type" of player should be in each position.

For example

We know he likes a hooker that is good defensively and is predominantly a passer
We know he likes a ballplaying forward being a key part of attack.

And we also saw at the Bulldogs he likes a big lumbering forward pack. And that's what we have at Manly. The game has changed and perhaps Des' preference for a certain type of player, that worked a decade ago, is holding us back.

 

[Snake]

Do you think the issues you are talking about stems from Des' biases/preference in terms of what "type" of player should be in each position.

For example

We know he likes a hooker that is good defensively and is predominantly a passer
We know he likes a ballplaying forward being a key part of attack.

And we also saw at the Bulldogs he likes a big lumbering forward pack. And that's what we have at Manly. The game has changed and perhaps Des' preference for a certain type of player, that worked a decade ago, is holding us back.

Yes, I question his perceptions of what we need in the forwards...This is a guy who once told Willie Mason that Aiden Tolman was the best prop in the competition.

I guess the once thing in his favour is recruitment is a slow moving beast. Sure, he's been there since 2019 but the game has only really shifted in the last 2 years due to the rule changes and many players already had contracts that needed to be honoured. Picking up Aloiai was a good move. It's hard to completely wipe the slate clean and start all over again when the landscape changes. You've gotta have the cap space, the players have to want to sign on and there are many moving parts.
I guess what I am saying is, sometimes you're stuck with what you got because you can't get anything else.

 

[tookey]

I think the answer to the forward conundrum involves junior recruitment. Chasing big name forwards (like Payne Haas) with our salary cap is impossible. I like the Aloiai signing because he has some leg speed and did not break the bank but to get 2-3 others, we probably need to look internally. I know Taupau and Davey are leaving, but Boyle, Keppie, Paseka, Sipley and De Luis are not the right kind of props for the speed of the current game. Each have had their moments and played well enough on occasions, but not consistently.

Sipley will come out and play 1 really good game and we talk about his improvement. The following week, you wouldn't know he'd played. The same goes for Paseka and co. Bullemor should be moved into the prop rotation next season. We need to stop blooding big, slow forwards and start investing our junior dollars in athletic and mobile forwards.

It would be interesting to see how Pesaka would go under Payten and the cowboys fitness regime

Jordan McLean has been a plodder since he left the storm but this year he has actually been much more mobile and quite impressive

I think a lot of our problems stem from our general coaching and strength and fitness training

The cowboys and penrith in particular play the game so much faster than us and their players are trained to play this speed for 80 minutes whereas our players were stuffed after 25 minutes on Friday night and a lot were still walking back into position on the second tackle

 

[Snake]

It would be interesting to see how Pesaka would go under Payten and the cowboys fitness regime

Jordan McLean has been a plodder since he left the storm but this year he has actually been much more mobile and quite impressive

I think a lot of our problems stem from our general coaching and strength and fitness training

The cowboys and penrith in particular play the game so much faster than us and their players are trained to play this speed for 80 minutes whereas our players were stuffed after 25 minutes on Friday night and a lot were still walking back into position on the second tackle

Agree on all fronts.

 

[ricardo]

My old man used to say "forwards decide the winner, backs decide by how much"

We are in desperate need of a strong forward pack which can lay a platform. I actually think we are just one or two explosive AFB/Klemmer types away from it, but damn we need it.

 

[mave]

Imo AFB is not as big a loss as everyone makes out.

Look at Cotter for the Cowboys...smaller, qucker, more agile, more desperate. He is nowhere near as big as AFB, but a hell of a lot more effective. How many good plays come off the next play after he gets tackled?.....the answer is heaps of them

 

[Terry Zarsoff]

Imo AFB is not as big a loss as everyone makes out.

Look at Cotter for the Cowboys...smaller, qucker, more agile, more desperate. He is nowhere near as big as AFB, but a hell of a lot more effective. How many good plays come off the next play after he gets tackled?.....the answer is heaps of them

Yes I thought the problem with AFB was that often he would make ground and then take forever to get up and play the ball, often hanging out for some sort of penalty in the process. Thus negating the attacking momentum.

Our front/cornrower is more of the same, without the intimidation. I thought the defensive line and attack generally looked stronger without him on Friday night.

 

[ricardo]

I just don't think our four best props are premiership material. Two or three are good and just need to be supplemented ... need a weapon in there. Perhaps AFB was not a good example but he has been our best in recent memory (when fully fit).

Second row / 13 great
Halves great
Backline pretty good to amazing depending on the day

 

[bob dylan]

I voted Tom's injury. It was our turning point, even now if he was playing I'd give us some hope.

It concerns me Jake turns 29 in February and is a realistic chance of playing a 300 game career and never playing in a Grand Final.

Who would of ever thought that was a possibility?

 

[eagle66]

I think Sykes (Development Player) needs to be brought along as a prop. Looks like he is being developed as an edge but has some attributes to play in the centre and could give what is needed, speed and agility. Sure he will need time but got to point him in a better direction.

 

[Terry Zarsoff]

I voted Tom's injury. It was our turning point, even now if he was playing I'd give us some hope.

It concerns me Jake turns 29 in February and is a realistic chance of playing a 300 game career and never playing in a Grand Final.

Who would of ever thought that was a possibility?

He could be in the same ‘club’ as Tapau. Somewhat depressing.

The people that dig Tapau - how do you think he would stack up alongside front rowers or sometime frontrowers like Bull, O’Neill, Hamilton, Randall, Harvey, Gray, Ward, Carroll, Gillespie, King or Kite? He’s not in the same ballpark.

 

[Eagle 1]

Well, most of us seem to agree on one thing, we got well and truly owned in the forwards.

 

[Simonmyers11]

Definitely some go forward and toughness. defence still not good enough.

Look at penrith on the weekend, no halves but didn't matter. they win games on their defence, their toughness. their forwards are relentless.

Its why Cowboys and Brisbane have turned things around with their forwards. I also think if parra click they will be hard to beat, but penrith still so strong

 

[tookey]

Imo AFB is not as big a loss as everyone makes out.

Look at Cotter for the Cowboys...smaller, qucker, more agile, more desperate. He is nowhere near as big as AFB, but a hell of a lot more effective. How many good plays come off the next play after he gets tackled?.....the answer is heaps of them

Yep

AFB has received his long term big contract and is now just turning up for his money and playing like a log

 

[eaglebuzz]

I would have cast my vote but there was no "all of the above" button.

Add to that list:
- stupidity on and off the field

 

[Wombat64]

Our ball boys just ain't good enough

 

[StuBoot]

I voted Tom's injury. It was our turning point, even now if he was playing I'd give us some hope.

I voted this too.
We were one game away from the GF last year with pretty much the same squad.

Yes, our forwards could be better.
Yes, to most ( if not all ) of the other options but if Tom plays only 20 games a year we're in the Top 6.
Even through our golden period we had something like only a 50% win ratio without Snake.

Look at Souffs, they were treading water until Mitchell came back, I hate to say it but now they look like a confident football side.

The Storm were real Premiership contenders until Rd 9 when Pap got injured, even his first game back v us he nearly conjured a miraculous comeback.
They miss Pap more than they miss Christian Welch.
I wouldn't be surprised if they keep Munster there for the rest of the year now.

Take Teddy out of the Chooks and see how they go? Okay they'd put Manu there but....
When we played the Knights, Ponga was their only threat.
How would Parra go without Guffo?

The Sharks struggled a bit the other night without Kennedy, he's not in the Top 6 fullbacks but he means so much to their play, just like Edwards at the Panthers.
Look at Drinkwater at the Cows.

Yes, it's the sum of many parts but Turbo is the answer.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

$3 million plus on 3 players is our biggest issue.

If you checked the top teams that wouldn’t be far from being different for bay of them.

Our overpaid one is probably Jake , but there’s a few on that same money !

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Who have we bought for 2023????

They’ll announce that when they announce Matthew Orford.