Poll added - Sea Eagles Everyone in League jersey

[niccipops]

I wasn’t going to get involved in this as it is so highly emotional. But here goes.

Firstly, I’m fine with the jersey. As a matter of fact when I first saw it I thought it was a good initiative. But this post is not about the process and the outcome. It’s about those who are sitting out.

The general consensus here is that they are bigots and that is why they won’t play.

But has anyone considered that they are genuinely afraid for their souls? That is that if they are seen to support the rainbow community, they will go to hell for eternity.

Before you dismiss the idea, I was brought up as Catholic. I was educated by nuns and brothers in my early years. It is drummed into you by them that if you die in sin, you will go to hell. And while I still adhere to the basic Catholic tenants, I have outgrown that idea. I don’t even attend church. But if this continues to be drummed into them by their religious leaders, then it is probably still a genuine belief for them.

If these players are committed enough to participate in prayer circles, thank their god publicly and have ‘Jesus’ and crosses written/drawn in their strapping, then why wouldn’t they genuinely believe their souls might be in danger? It’s part of the package.

I’m not defending anyone’s right to bigotry, but this is just from a different perspective.

For clarity, just reiterating that I support this, and any initiative that promotes inclusion.

Hey I grew up Catholic too but retired at age 17 when I was allowed to decide whether to keep attending church or not.
I chose to go surfing.
Even though I'm quite frustrated that these players can't challenge their own thinking for the good of the team and now basically we're going to get smashed, I do understand the pressure they must feel. They've been instilled with the belief of religion over science. This has always been a conflict but their upbringing and beliefs are who they are, right now.
Can their beliefs change? For some I think yes.
Religion and science can work together if you're willing to except good from both.
My dear departed Dad, Tommy, was an ex-airforce man, extreme homophobe who was highly alarmed by potential gayness because his eldest son combed his hair, his daughter was a tomboy and his younger son grew his hair like a hippie. He ended up with all straight but open-minded offspring.
He was born in 1927, staunchly Catholic and didn't have kids until 40 so we heard his misplaced humour and concepts growing up.
Fast forward to the 2017 Marriage amendment and 89 year old Tommy voted yes.
Got to say I was pretty proud of him.
Not all people change but some do.

 

[mave]

And a double lol......now Manase is up next.

 

[Heckenberg]

I wasn’t going to get involved in this as it is so highly emotional. But here goes.

Firstly, I’m fine with the jersey. As a matter of fact when I first saw it I thought it was a good initiative. But this post is not about the process and the outcome. It’s about those who are sitting out.

The general consensus here is that they are bigots and that is why they won’t play.

But has anyone considered that they are genuinely afraid for their souls? That is that if they are seen to support the rainbow community, they will go to hell for eternity.

Before you dismiss the idea, I was brought up as Catholic. I was educated by nuns and brothers in my early years. It is drummed into you by them that if you die in sin, you will go to hell. And while I still adhere to the basic Catholic tenants, I have outgrown that idea. I don’t even attend church. But if this continues to be drummed into them by their religious leaders, then it is probably still a genuine belief for them.

If these players are committed enough to participate in prayer circles, thank their god publicly and have ‘Jesus’ and crosses written/drawn in their strapping, then why wouldn’t they genuinely believe their souls might be in danger? It’s part of the package.

I’m not defending anyone’s right to bigotry, but this is just from a different perspective.

For clarity, just reiterating that I support this, and any initiative that promotes inclusion.

I got told I was going to hell at my catholic schools year five camp because I wasn’t baptised and therefore wasn’t a friend of Jesus. Kindve put a bad taste in my mouth.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

So... how does this play out?
I might add a poll!

Poll added

 

[47MVEagle]

I voted 2 & 3 & nearly 6 but somehow I think that option will cause as much trouble (if not more) than the jersey itself.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

I’m not defending anyone’s right to bigotry, but this is just from a different perspective

I'm sure there is something in what you say, and I don't regard the religious 7 as bad people, rather, as ignorant people. Which is no doubt largely on their background and upbringing. But as adults, one (me) would hope they are now open to listening to other points of view and assessing their own attitudes and beliefs in light of things they may never have seriously thought about before.
But yes there would be some genuine 'fear of the mystery' for some of them, and massive peer pressure to contend with for probably all of them. A tough position to find yourself as a footy player, but that's where they are now!

By the way, poll just aded to this thread

 

[Technical Coach]

Well, in that story, the 7 sitting out would be the destructive force as they are the ones who are not just focusing on the job, but rather, focusing on their beliefs. Right?

They have been focusing on the job since day one and respecting "inclusivity" since day one.

Seems you are trying to say they should "just get on with the job" regardless of what is promoted on the jersey.

The players have every right to take the stance they have, the club is more in the wrong than the players. The club has apologized for the lack of prior consultation so the onus is on the club to back that apology with actions and defer the promotion until a more inclusive consultation process is in place.

Does this mean the players will go ahead in the future and play under this jersey---no, but it at least respects all parties and shows respect for all views and beliefs.

To me the very carefully worded response by Des appeared more like a Lawyer crafting a response to protect the club, maybe the Folau case had some influence in the style of reply.

The rainbow colours to the average person is not a symbol representing a general "inclusive of all" meaning but as of today it appears to be, i wonder why.

The Manly jersey already is representative of inclusivity in the great support Ian Roberts was shown in the past and present, not this tokenism marketing rubbish to generate financial gain and trying to broaden the appeal in the modern market place.

 

[Dan]

I got told I was going to hell at my catholic schools year five camp because I wasn’t baptised and therefore wasn’t a friend of Jesus. Kindve put a bad taste in my mouth.

My ex-wife must have been catholic because shes been telling me I'm bound for hell for years

 

[double hoops]

Well done Dan. Jumped on the site and see silvertails in the rainbow colours. Couldn't help but smirk. Did these blokes every use an apple iPhone, there bloody logo was rainbow coloured for years for the same reason.

 

[Technical Coach]

I'm sure there is something in what you say, and I don't regard the religious 7 as bad people, rather, as ignorant people. Which is no doubt largely on their background and upbringing. But as adults, one (me) would hope they are now open to listening to other points of view and assessing their own attitudes and beliefs in light of things they may never have seripously thought about before.
But yes there would be some genuine 'fear of the mystery' for some of them, and massive peer pressure to contend with for probably all of them. A tough position to find yourself as a footy player, but that's where they are now!

By the way, poll just aded to this thread

"Which is no doubt largely on their background and upbringing", can you elaborate more on this as it comes across as an arrogant statement to make.

 

[Snake]

there needs to be another option in the poll...the season is derailed and 2-3 of the 7 are dirty on the club and seek a release over the next 12 months.

 

[Dan]

Well done Dan. Jumped on the site and see silvertails in the rainbow colours. Couldn't help but smirk. Did these blokes every use an apple iPhone, there bloody logo was rainbow coloured for years for the same reason.

Most companies make a pride version of their logo yearly and most of them are companies these guys would use daily

 

[Shoe1]

there needs to be another option in the poll...the season is derailed and 2-3 of the 7 are dirty on the club and seek a release over the next 12 months.

Yeah I choose this one, and I’ll happily call them a cab.

 

[Technical Coach]

Hey I grew up Catholic too but retired at age 17 when I was allowed to decide whether to keep attending church or not.
I chose to go surfing.
Even though I'm quite frustrated that these players can't challenge their own thinking for the good of the team and now basically we're going to get smashed, I do understand the pressure they must feel. They've been instilled with the belief of religion over science. This has always been a conflict but their upbringing and beliefs are who they are, right now.
Can their beliefs change? For some I think yes.
Religion and science can work together if you're willing to except good from both.
My dear departed Dad, Tommy, was an ex-airforce man, extreme homophobe who was highly alarmed by potential gayness because his eldest son combed his hair, his daughter was a tomboy and his younger son grew his hair like a hippie. He ended up with all straight but open-minded offspring.
He was born in 1927, staunchly Catholic and didn't have kids until 40 so we heard his misplaced humour and concepts growing up.
Fast forward to the 2017 Marriage amendment and 89 year old Tommy voted yes.
Got to say I was pretty proud of him.
Not all people change but some do.

"Belief of religion over science" has zero to do with this.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

"Which is no doubt largely on their background and upbringing", can you elaborate more on this as it comes across as an arrogant statement to make.

In my experience people brought up in a religious family are more lilely to be religious, as opposed to comparatively few who are brought up by parents with no religious beliefs yet grow up and later adopt a religion.

Not intended as arrogant, although if you consider atheism to be arrogant then guilty as charged.

 

[Technical Coach]

Most companies make a pride version of their logo yearly and most of them are companies these guys would use daily

And an employee probably has every right not to wear this logo with no "Legal Repurcussions" i would imagine.

Yeah i'm sure many in the workplace would have it in for such people though.

 

[Technical Coach]

In my experience people brought up in a religious family are more lilely to be religious, as opposed to comparatively few who are brought up by parents with no religious beliefs yet grow up and later adopt a religion.

Not intended as arrogant, although if you consider atheism to be arrogant then guilty as charged.

You are only addressing the "upbringing" element, what do you mean by "background".

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

there needs to be another option in the poll...the season is derailed and 2-3 of the 7 are dirty on the club and seek a release over the next 12 months.

Done. Pardon the spelling mistake, I didn't sem to have an option to fix that!

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

You are only addressing the "upbringing" element, what do you mean by "background".

The players named are from Samoan or Tongan backgrounds, and apparenly these places were well indoctrinated by driven Christian missionaries long ago, and therefore many are now very religious (we are told).

 

[Technical Coach]

In my experience people brought up in a religious family are more lilely to be religious, as opposed to comparatively few who are brought up by parents with no religious beliefs yet grow up and later adopt a religion.

Not intended as arrogant, although if you consider atheism to be arrogant then guilty as charged.

I don't consider Atheism as arrogant at all, totally understandable why people would feel this way, i just don't try and elevate my belief system above others or knock Atheism for shytes and giggles.

So what is your "background" and why is your background more likely to be less "ignorant"