Post-Game Discussion Penrith v Manly [Round 1, 2022]

[Mitch]

Looking at the lack of speed around the ruck we had coming out of our own end, I actually think not having Walker there makes a difference.

He has that work rate and leg speed coming out of our own end through the middle.

Would it have made a huge difference, no, but he would have provided some energy coming out of our own end.

 

[EOL now nesting on the GC]

True. But surely we aim to be the best.

Of course we do but its not something that magically happens. We need to learn how to. We will.

 

[Tongan Eagle]

Our work from dummy half was so poor, and I love Croker as he plays with heart but he is too slow and doesn’t engage markers. Not sure what our hooker stocks looks like but how far is Fainu from coming back lol

 

[EOL now nesting on the GC]

100%.
PS, I’m a Cherry Evan hater. Grossly overrated, constant mix of good and bad vs mediocre-bad teams, and never plays well against good teams, oh and wrecking our salary cap.

Overall the whole game was more about Penrith superiority in physicality and attitude, but Daly Cherry-Evans spent the whole game wrecking every single attack on his side by hardly ever passing the ball.
Not only did he not pass the ball when there was players open next to him, he didn’t organise anything to generate an attack. That Huamole was The most dangerous player on the right side with his hit ups is a total embarrassment for Cherry Evans.
We saw a warning in the trial game where Cherry Evan’s never set up any attack for Koula or Saab, with Jack Wighton mistakes for the Raiders doing more for Manly’s attack then Cherry Evans ever did.

Congratulations everything you said there was 100% wrong. It takes special talent to watch 80 min of football and come up with that crock of Arse juice Poop.

 

[Kalvin]

We were totally dominated around the ruck last night with Penrith getting quick play the balls and 1 out scoots from dummy half.
Also they strategically kicked us out of the game, pegging us into our own corners thus losing field position badly... played most of the game in our own third!

 

[JakeyB789]

Only round 1 but what a poor showing that looked like nothing had changed since last year. Parker was garbage and got toyed with by Crichton but will no doubt hold his spot, and as much I loved what Harper did for us last year he’s starting to look like he isn’t up to it either. People will say Koula/Tuipulotu are too inexperienced and aren’t ‘ready’ yet but the only way they will be is by actually playing games so I think we should be getting them both in the centres ASAP.

Enough said about Croker on here but watching Api do his thing and score a try really rubbed salt in the wounds. Not sure what we can do here other than wait for the Fainu situation to resolve itself but we desperately need a hooker that can not only run the ball but also make simple passes out of dummy half which don’t end up on the ground.

In the end I don’t think any team would’ve beaten Penrith last night but we certainly didn’t make it easy for ourselves and continuing to carry players like these in our side is only going to hurt us, as will only using 15 players in a game in which our forwards are being dominated. Good one Des!

 

[R3]

RaNdOm WiLd SuGeSTiOnS tIMe!!!!!!

Before I sit down and watch the replay of the second half which I missed,
I have some ‘imaginative suggestions’;

1. Hooker - Segyaro will get a shot after a few rounds?

2. Halves- Schuster gets a crack at 6 and Foran becomes the Benji Marshall super-sub, or (less likely) DCE

3. Attacking Centre- Koula takes Parker’s spot so we get a loose ball chance converted to a try

4. Defensive Centre- Jorge Taufua takes Matai’s old number 4 to make some nice hits?

5. Prop- Drop Toffy for Jurbo- about time Jake stepped aside from lock for someone with leg speed.

6. Lock- Bully or walker? Jeez even tippy toes if he can’t get a single game at centre . He’s look big enough?

6. Prop 2- Páseka or Keppie to Start instead of Marty. Kapow should run against tired players and avoid that initial bash up.


I heard we didn’t win our first 4 games last year?

We didn’t have Turbo in those first 4 games so maybe try something crazy if nothing improves after round 4?

 

[The Who]

DCE has been a fantastic player for us over the years (mind you, he has been handsomely rewarded financially) but last night convinced me that we shouldn't be considering extending his contract beyond 2023. He's not the player he was, which is hardly surprising, and whilst ever he is in our squad he will prevent the progression of our next halfback. We need to be offering a clear pathway to our next halfback (whoever that may be) and have him slowly brought into the top grade in 2023. I can't imagine any talented young halfback prepared to wait years until DCE retires or moves on.
As for Foran; he was one of our best last night but the team needs to take its performances to the next level so The Shoe must be given his shot as our permanent 5/8, with Foran used as a 'super sub' in 2022.
I'd be delighted if both DCE and Foran transitioned into coaching or administrative roles with the club as both are very impressive students of the sport.

 

[QLDSeaeagle]

I heard we didn’t win our first 4 games last year?

We didn’t have Turbo in those first 4 games

Mate, its about time this team started identifying itself as the Seaeagles again, we are NOT the Trbojevic Tribe.

 

[IQofalimabean]

Need to find some new forwards. The raiders beat us up the middle too.

 

[HoldenV8]

RaNdOm WiLd SuGeSTiOnS tIMe!!!!!!

Before I sit down and watch the replay of the second half which I missed,
I have some ‘imaginative suggestions’;

1. Hooker - Segyaro will get a shot after a few rounds?

2. Halves- Schuster gets a crack at 6 and Foran becomes the Benji Marshall super-sub, or (less likely) DCE

3. Attacking Centre- Koula takes Parker’s spot so we get a loose ball chance converted to a try

4. Defensive Centre- Jorge Taufua takes Matai’s old number 4 to make some nice hits?

5. Prop- Drop Toffy for Jurbo- about time Jake stepped aside from lock for someone with leg speed.

6. Lock- Bully or walker? Jeez even tippy toes if he can’t get a single game at centre . He’s look big enough?

6. Prop 2- Páseka or Keppie to Start instead of Marty. Kapow should run against tired players and avoid that initial bash up.


I heard we didn’t win our first 4 games last year?

We didn’t have Turbo in those first 4 games so maybe try something crazy if nothing improves after round 4?

OK, I'll have a crack at this one.....

1 - Nope, won't happen unless Froggy and Lawton are injured or suspended.

2 - Again, nope, won't happen. When Shoe comes back he'll be in the back row. Despite playing behind a beaten pack, Cherry and Foz were among our better players last night.

3 - If Koula takes anyone's spot its Harper's.

4 - Post first, then have a toke.

5 - Toff should be starting from the bench at best. Paseka needs to be the starter in #8.

6 - The lock also needs to be a good passer so that rules out Bullemor straight up. Jake will only be moved to prop in an emergency and Walker won't start there unless Jake isn't playing (e.g. Origin time).

6 - First, this should be 7, but we'll forgive the typo lol. OK, when everyone is available our starting props should be Paseka and Aloiai with Marty, Keppie and maybe Toff coming off the bench.

What should we try if we haven't won after Round 4 (which would mean a loss to the Dogs in Round 3 BTW, and that ain't happening). Should we piss Turbo off to Blacktown and play Walker at fullback??

 

[The Indian]

The Panthers ball control in that game was awesome. Let's not forget even without Cleary their halfback played a blinder and they were "on" last night. No shame in losing that.

They followed the blueprint that will beat us ( and most teams ) most times. High completions, pin opponents in corners with kicking game then win the battle of field position which takes Tom out of the game. It's what the good teams do to us ( Melbourne Souths Penrith Roosters ) and will continue to do to us most times whilst we drop the ball then persist in playing low percentage sideways football off the back of zero go forward. Trying to gamble our way out of trouble.

To me last night it wasn't lack of effort it was execution, game plan and structure. The Panthers have a clearly defined structure and method, we play off the cuff more and against the good teams that's low percentage.

We'll be back but we have to learn for all these similar defeats.

 

[Snake]

Personally, I didn’t see a lack of effort, I just saw a really good team that are superior to us, win the game.

We turned up with intent but Penrith are too mobile and fast and we have a heavy and cumbersome forward rotation that lacks leg speed and everything that came off the back of that, was a result of being outplayed in the middle.

For example -

• Croker’s poor pass was fatigue
• Keppie walking when the ball looked like it would die on the edge before Luai scored, was fatigue
• Keppie and Croker’s efforts from marker when Koroisau scored, was fatigue.
• DCE ineffective kicking game was the result of kicking off the back of limited go forward
• Tom being heavily marked was the result of a set defensive line off the back of no ruck speed.

Right now, Penrith are just a better side. They have really mobile forwards who run hard and they have great line speed and first up contact.

It pains me to say but I would have felt better if we just didn’t turn up and a fresh attitude would be an easy fix...alas, I think we just aren’t up to Penrith’s level.

It’s hard to single out individual players because we were beaten easily up the middle but I do think we lack leg speed in the forwards. The only one with any was our best forward, Taupau. Jake, Keppie, Paseka, Haumole, and Sipley are all lacking leg speed. Haumole makes up for it with his sheer physical presence but we don’t have forwards that get us over the Ad line quickly and generate a quick play the ball. A good 9 would also help get the forwards into good positions against the defence, but they are pretty much sitting ducks due to the lack of variation around the ruck.

 

[Daddycool]

Yep, you're not going to win too often when you can't at least compete in the forwards. We were badly dominated last night and not even Tom can do much behind a beaten forward pack.
We've got some big forwards that can poke their nose thru the line but too often they're lacking two key things; a supporting player to potentially offload to. Or the nous to get to ground & get a quick play the ball.
I hate to keep saying it but, until we get an 80min, quick & creative #9, we're going to struggle to beat the top teams. We can't afford to carry a hooker on the bench so we need an 80min player. I know Croker tries his heart out but he's not the player we need. The best we can do for the moment is Lawton with either Segeyaro or Foz as cover.

 

[HK_Eagle]

For me the frustrating thing was that whilst yes we were camped coming out of our own end all night, when we're coming out all we were doing was taking one out runs - Penrith will eat that up all night!

We needed to look to shift the ball and try and disrupt their defensive structure which is clearly the best in the competition.

This^
Couldn't agree more.

It was so predictable and made worst when you consider the stature of our wingers running up against a rushing 3 gang tackle every time. Even Turbo was getting rag-dolled in that situation. We really needed to get creative and try something to break up the structure. Shifting it is the obvious response, but even turning the ball back inside to keep the defence guessing a little. I guess the fatigue probably stopped numbers getting back to provide the options needed. It was frustrating though to see us continually bang our collective heads against a brick wall.

 

[HK_Eagle]

I'm a little surprised to see some criticising Foz. I thought he was one of our best. That was all the more impressive given our halves were trying to work behind a dominated pack. This showed in its impact on DCE's game, but Foz remained steady throughout, IMO. His defence was generally outstanding.

 

[Snake]

I'm a little surprised to see some criticising Foz. I thought he was one of our best. That was all the more impressive given our halves were trying to work behind a dominated pack. This showed in its impact on DCE's game, but Foz remained steady throughout, IMO. His defence was generally outstanding.

Yeah I thought Foran was our best player last night.

 

[Marto1970]

If you don't win the middle your halves are not going to have any opportunities ,we never had the defence on the back foot , our attack in the middle is very pedestrian they could see what was coming and fast line speed Teed off on our First 3 or 4 plays then a shift wide then kick from our 30or 40m ,have to create the space in the middle

Been saying that at season's end last year ,we need to move to the next level and our 2021 halves will not take us there .They put no fear on the opposition with any instinctive plays ,good variety of kicking ,creating opportunities with little ball they get ,etc .We have the best back 3 and are wasted because we do not create space for them accept hit up 5 and Foran or Evans kicks .We scored a try last night from a F/up play the ball on the 5th tackle and showed what we can do .Lets hope for something new before we get into the finals this year .

 

[Marto1970]

Looking at the lack of speed around the ruck we had coming out of our own end, I actually think not having Walker there makes a difference.

He has that work rate and leg speed coming out of our own end through the middle.

Would it have made a huge difference, no, but he would have provided some energy coming out of our own end.

I also think we should shift Bully to the middle as well,need his speed and leg drive to get us on the front foot

 

[Clivus00]

Still the same story as last year. Completely dominated in the ruck on both sides by the top 4 teams.
Schustsr won’t help when we don’t have any go forward. Walker will with hard running and quick play the balls.
Taupau is too slow nowadays. We need Aloiai.
Keppie needs to start as he’s the only one whose tackles stick.
Jake still needs to stop giving away repeat sets with the holding down.
Do we have a wrestling coach?