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Lets call a spade

Discussion in 'Rugby League Forum' started by jbb/james, May 2, 2016.

  1. jbb/james

    jbb/james Well-Known Member

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    results driven business, hiku and gutho. Im hearing this a lot , mostly out of context.

    This is the way i see it. Hiku and gutho were wanted, they were part of the future, manly got kapow and walker quite late which were good pick ups. They had hoped to release mateo, burgess, starling and a few others to accomadate this master stroke. It would have been as well. All were contracted and dug there heels in. We were over the cap and had to sell players . Ultimately we sold players that were wanted elsewhere, potato and burgess were not. Obviuosly 2 **** signings to begin with. Not bozos fault. They were not surplus, they were in the plans, we choked hard releasing them but had no other choice. We were pumped when walker and kapow signed, we just didnt envisgae it would cost us our backline depth. We rolled the dice and lost we will get more, they were good but no messiahs. Short term pain.

    Tooves wasnt sacked for results , it was political. We had to warring parties in the club for many years. While all meant well, there ability to not get along cost our club and still does. Peace needed to be brokered but never was. Even though they all had manly at heart it was very very personal war. Fridgate, avo's , checque cashing scandal, court cases, we even had board members walking around the leagues club offering drink vouchers to other venues to get people out of the club. It was a bich fight. No one should be proud .

    Wether we like it or not there inability to find peace for the common goal cost many people there jobs, toovs included, not results. Its still evident now with zorbas bitter column last week. While ever the hatred and personal bitterness is there and is displayed openly our club will suffer. Im sure there were reasons, good reasons for the rift but concentrate on that stuff, and not the personal media attacks from both sides. Its pathetic, make peace for the club

    Manly performed despite the no 1 rugby league rule. Get your off field sorted and results follow.we cant expect to continue to break the no 1 rule.

    I believe everyone involved are good people, who care but this war was no good for our culture and toovey can attest to that.

    Lets not make barret or our future part of what killed us. Its just the same piss poor attitude mentioned above. Its a dig at the penns. If you want to dig the penns, dig the penns, leave our new coach, baggage free to do what he is learning to do.lets support the team, try and get a clean slate, all move together as one and put this nastiness behind us. No one is bigger than the club on or off the field. Its the manly way, its the only way.

    Tooves showed us the manly way, classy, lyon demonstrates the manly way, more class. You set your own standards despite all this carrying on. These are the cards we have been dealt, play on or fold,

    So the penns own manly, they finance manly. Get behind or find another board and management group to follow, hang on we support teams not boards and ceos. . Fark we are even turning nasty on the great bonzo , what next arkos mum.

    Just my view, add to it as you wish. If you have better info stick it out there i d love to hear it. If i have it wrong im sorry as its quite strong but i would deal with the real issues, we just only heard trivial bitchy stuff.

    We need to embrace the change. It might not be perfect but what we had was far from it and only slowing progress
     
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  2. SeaEagleRock8

    SeaEagleRock8 Sea Eagle Lach Staff Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Not sure who you are addressing this post to James?
    Fans will always second guess recruitment and team selection decisions, and always differ in assessment of player abilities and coach abilities.
    The other stuff about the front office is not exactly in our hands to solve, is it?
     
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  3. Turbo

    Turbo Well-Known Member

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    Last year at this point in the year we were last, this year we are equal 8th
     
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  4. Simonmyers11

    Simonmyers11 Well-Known Member

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    What a great post. Best one ive read in ages!
     
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  5. manlyfan76

    manlyfan76 Parra Trolls are the best. Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Agree with your post. It does suck that that only some players and (ex)staff have shown class as Manly deserves more.
     
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  6. Mals

    Mals Well-Known Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    News flash James no supporter follows a board or owner. We follow a club and cheer on the players. Critiquing a board has occurred since companies were first formed and will occur until the world ends :)
     
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  7. The Wheel

    The Wheel Well-Known Member

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    Nice post James!
     
  8. The Who

    The Who Well-Known Member

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    So James, let's dumb down the essence of your post: Manly bought a 'house' (players) when they hadn't sold their own in order to finance it. Correct?
     
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  9. SeaEagleRock8

    SeaEagleRock8 Sea Eagle Lach Staff Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    No, I think it was more about the warring factions, and Zorba is still writing bitter articles, and while ever the hatred and personal bitterness is there, our club will suffer.
    So let's embrace the change and support the team.
    Actually, that's not it either.
    Aw, I give up!
     
  10. jbb/james

    jbb/james Well-Known Member

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    Yeah the gutho hiku stuff. Very well put. They just had to lquidate some other assets once the house didnt sell
     
  11. jbb/james

    jbb/james Well-Known Member

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    Agree mate, even said the same thing in my own way in the above post. But continually blaming the toovie situation on results when we all know it wasnt was the point i was trying to make. Especially after every loss we get sack the coach its a results driven business. I onow its the excuse used and sarcasm is awesome , i couldnt live without it, but you know


    It was very wordy
     
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  12. SeaEagleRock8

    SeaEagleRock8 Sea Eagle Lach Staff Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    True.
    Not much we can do about Zorba's bitterness or the Penn power plays but a few more wins will help us ignore those things.
     
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  13. Fluffy

    Fluffy Well-Known Member

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    looks like a shovel to me
     
  14. The Who

    The Who Well-Known Member

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    I will always support the Manly Sea Eagles. But I like to think that my one maroon and one white eye doesn't completely blind me to some failings by Manly players and officials.
    None of us would go to the shops without money in the wallet. Surely it would be better business practice to free up funds before you go on a spending spree.
    PS: I love the fact that we recruited Kapow and Parcell, but can't support the recruitment of Mr Plod. As for Walker, I'd preferred we still had Hiku and Gutherson, but time will tell on this one.
     
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  15. Frank

    Frank Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    The "results driven business" sound grab will stay with our current owners for as long as they own the club. They ran a propaganda machine through the whole sorry saga last year and were only fooling the ignorant. The rest of us found it insulting.

    I thinks it's time our owners were asked if Barrett's job is safe.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2016
  16. double hoops

    double hoops Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Ahh very interesting. @jbb/james I don't disagree with many of your words. But If I understand correctly u seem to advance that there comes a time when things need to change. Agreed. And you also just put forward that Zorba speaking is detrimental to this club being United, so presumably Zorba or Zorba in that role needs to change. Look I support your motions.

    What I don't understand is that whilst you just criticised some parts of the current regime and that is ok, It would seem that your suggesting other parts of the regime our current management the Penns, Bozo or Barrett should be off limits as that would be, well being factional? Not productive. Look I don't quite follow. If people made mistakes they need to realise they stuffed up before they can fix it.

    No doubt we are both passionate about this club, we are doing exactly the same things in calling for change, I just don't understand your distinction regarding what can and can't be discussed.

    A management discission to sack someone like David Heath who transformed the 20's from last into a gf in two years and replacing him with an unproven coach, who hasn't got a win, And gets moved after 8 rounds speaks volumes.

    A bad decision, is a bad decision. If our management is out of its depth, can't see through the haze of its political agendas, to make the right calls for success at this club and the community, then they have failed haven't they?

    Change only happens when the decision maker relizes there mistake. Being quiet helps no one.
     
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    Last edited: May 2, 2016
  17. jbb/james

    jbb/james Well-Known Member

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    Very reasonable reply and in my haste i probabLy should have given more thought in how i approached the subject. you are of course correct in that in a vague way i was a hypocritical in what i said even though you didnt go to lengths to point that out

    thank you for your tact and style in Pointing out the obvious to all but me. Sometimes i just get so immersed i dont see the bigger picture in what i say,nregardless or what im trying to say.

    But i think we need to understand why things were done, and not see everything as black and white

    Clarifying , criticism is part of life i am not trying to stop freedom of speech, i just know that we need to give people a go if we want a succesful club to a point

    Kicking the cat about tooves and making barret the scapegoat to why it went down will not help manly. If barret is not succesful and we are forced to try another coach this will only delay our progress and will make manly a less attractive work place for the stars of the game.

    Jamie lyon is a very good player but i still remember how manly treated him upon his arrival. As with bk, the belief that they would deliver was second to none. They were both great players before they arrived but the undying faith only improved them as players and leaders in my opinion.

    Bagging barret to hurt the penns goes against that culture. If barret sucks then he sucks but thats because of the future, not the past
     
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  18. double hoops

    double hoops Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    A mature and grounded discussion on here is very welcomed:). So well done @jbb/james.

    The beauty of sport and footy particularly is that it has what business and other things don't usually, that is emotion. Sometimes we all can speak without thinking, or just be frustrated.

    Round 1 aside, the calls for Barrett's head, have been few and far between.

    We all knew it would take time for a new team to gel.

    I am sure we all hope our team can come home with a wet sail yet.

    The next 6-7 weeks probably decides our fate this year. We need to be better. The Donkeys and Sharks will be at least a challenge, and after that, we really need to be finding our rhythm. There simply won't be much time for excuses.

    I doubt there is really calls to sack Trent. Id suggest criticism of him is more linked with the excuses he has been peddling. Whats really being called for, is not his head, but for him to take an even greater control. Ownership of performances. Results decide themselves.

    There exists a perception and It may be wrong, that he may need to ask for more, and push this squad further, to get the best out of them. Up until now he may have been doing a fair bit of repoire building!

    But the team has some way to go to be a cohesive unit yet. Discipline at the moment is lacking, being close if not the most penalised team in the Comp. We can't just keep blaming the ref. Let's be better then that.

    Im not calling for Trents head. I'm suggesting the time for a different phase of coach is upon him. What we all need, is a more disciplined, demanding Baz.

    If a challenge is viewed as a reason not too, the team won't. If the challenge is viewed as an opportunity, the group at least can.
     
  19. Wombat Legacy

    Wombat Legacy Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    I think the point that is really poignant here is that Manly DO NOT have a finished roster. Trent Barrett will use this year to lay down the business plan of the footy club and assemble the coaching & conditioning team for the the future "plan"
    Blind Freddy can see that there are still several players to move on, and several key positions to fill. My feeling is that behind closed doors this is happening now.
    Regardless of the controversy surrounding the Penns' and Zorba, they are obviously here to stay, so I guess we better get used to it.
    The squad in 2017& 2018 will be much stronger and more unified.
    Barrett has managed to achieve a better defensive structure, and the effort is great most weekends.
    Discipline is fairly poor, and Barrett needs to work hard in this area.
    There are good signs emerging, however Barrett will not be his 'own man' this year.
    I am positive, but I respect others points of view when we play dumb footy.
    Only way is up guys
     
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  20. ricardo

    ricardo Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. Let's see what happens closer to 30 June.
     

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