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If guilty what will happen???

Discussion in 'Rugby League Forum' started by Mark from Brisbane, Feb 8, 2013.

  1. Mark from Brisbane

    Mark from Brisbane Living the dream Premium Member

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    Now first of all this isn't aimed just at our club (although by association we are involved). Every single major sport was represented on stage yesterday so we have (as they have said) problems in all games and all clubs and all codes.

    So I pose the following.

    Assuming they name codes, names and clubs, and if they do what happens then?

    ***Perhaps players are suspended to the point that they are found guilty and at which time they will be banned for a lengthy period (I heard 2 years), or found not guilty at which time they recommence playing duties.... OR are they allowed to play on, on the basis of innocent to proven guilty???

    *** Then the Doctors / Support staff...who are deemed to be involved....ditto as above???

    *** Ditto for Coaches

    *** And if found that it was systemic in a club sense (meaning that it was known from the top to the bottom) do they then nulify Premierships that those clubs have won (for example do the Queensland Reds lose their 2011 Super Rugby Championship if found guilty), and ban those clubs from competing for say two years???

    *** Or do we see just those involved banned, and clubs continue with those still standing???

    *** And do we have different grades of punishment (for example I heard that Essendon players were just given a drink and told it was a Vitamin supplement.....so who is guilty there, players or those delivering the drink??)...maybe both but do both get the same or different punishment??

    The second part of this is who proves them guilty, a court of law??...ASADA???...the Government???

    And the last part is, who determines the punishment??? (my assumption is there will be a blanket punishment or will this be deemed by the clubs)???

    I assume someone with more knowledge than me may have these answers!
     
  2. Brookie

    Brookie Well-Known Member

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    i reckon do the same as what they did about newcastle being drug cheats back in '97!
     
  3. bones

    bones Bones Knows Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    You assumed wrong Mark, as I actually don't have the answers.
     
  4. Garts

    Garts Well-Known Member

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    There are way too many variables or unknowns at this point in time. Did the players know what they were doing was illegal? If a club doctor gives you a needle to assist with being able to take the field, train or assist with pain or have a injury heal quicker who's responsibility is it to ensure the substances are not banned? I would say the club and its medical staff. Why should players be punished for being told what to take by a qualified staff member at the club. If they knew they were taking banned substances, i.e. like Armstrong then that is a different story.

    Anyway I have no idea what the facts are so its hard to make a accurate comment, all we can do is speculate.
     
  5. Dan

    Dan Administrator Staff Member Administrator 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Personally I think it is more about the clubs.

    If players are found to be doping on a regular basis regularly now then they should be banned. If it was back in 2008 I don't think it fair that some players get banned, whilst there will be others that have since retired or moved to the UK that won't end up being punished at all.

    I think what they need to do is instead of putting in retrospective sanctions they need to be looking at the current and future situation and that means wiping the slate clean to an extent
     
  6. Mark from Brisbane

    Mark from Brisbane Living the dream Premium Member

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    My assumption is none of this has come out yet, I was just wondering of it had and I missed it??

    If it's speculation then I guess we don't need that either!!

    BUT it's an interesting topic I feel.
     
  7. Stevo

    Stevo Well-Known Member

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    I think there are too many grey areas still, Mark. The only actual allegation that has been made is that the bloke used peptides and similar substances at Essendon. It seems to me that the rest of the hype is formed on the basis that he was possibly practicing those methods at other clubs in past years. My question is, if they have any proof of any player or any club then why was the story broken by a journo in Melbourne and not ASADA?

    I don't think authorities have any idea how far it stretches past Essendon, if at all. If they knew who was involved they wouldn't have come out and said yesterday for players to turn themselves in before they come knocking at their door because they will go easier on them if they do.

    I think it's a storm in an Essendon cafe tea cup.
     
  8. firechild

    firechild Active Member

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    I can't really speculate as to what WILL happen but I think we can all have a crack at what MAY happen.

    For clubs that are found to be doing this systematically (i.e. coaches, doctors, etc being involved) then all individuals involved will be punished (2 years for players, 4 years to lifetime bans for officials). On top of that premierships may be looked at depending on how widespread it is.

    If, as you suggest, players are given supplements unknowingly, they can still be found guilty and face bans that will be treated as though they did so knowingly. Officials that gave them the "supplements" will face lengthy bans as above.

    As for whether players (and I guess this extends to coaches, doctors and others) will be allowed to continue while being investigated, I think banning them with no proof of guilt would open them (ASADA, NRL, whoever) to legal action from individuals and clubs given the potential repercussions (i.e. club not making the finals due to innocent player being banned). On the other hand, fans would not be happy if their team is playing against someone suspected of cheating who later is proven to be guilty. I guess the Brett Stewart scenario is something that should be kept in mind here (though obviously that wasn't about cheating).

    As for who will punish players/clubs, this will depend on how they are involved. AFAIK these drugs are not illegal but rather are banned in sports. This would rule out criminal prosecution (though police are involved in investigations due to links to crime syndicates and match fixing allegations). The NRL are obligated to abide by ASADA rulings which in this case are the penalties listed above. My understanding is that the NRL has 2 levels of testing; official ASADA testing, where any findings are subject to ASADA rulings, and in-house testig where punishments are subject to rulings by the club. Obviously anything uncovered by the investigation would fall into the first category, clubs will have no say in who is punished and what penalty they face.
     
  9. Shoe1

    Shoe1 Well-Known Member

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    Is the problem the peptides (some of which seem legal, some not), or that the peptides were likely obtained from illegal importation?
     
  10. firechild

    firechild Active Member

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    Regarding the bold part, ASADA falls under WADAs umbrella and any ban that is applied will affect players in any sport (at least those that adhere to WADA policy) in any country.
     
  11. bones

    bones Bones Knows Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    I am confident that Manly will be cleared of any wrong doing in this saga. However, if they are ever found guilty of anything that resulted in a premiership being stripped, they would lose my support, and membership, for good.
     
  12. eagles2win

    eagles2win Well-Known Member

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    Players 2 years. All Codes should introduce a three strike policy but instead of the AFL's not naming them do this instead :
    1st strike : 2 years
    2nd strike : 5 years
    3rd strike : life

    Doctors / Support staff...who are deemed to be involved : life

    Coaches if they know about it : life

    Wide spread in Clubs : Compete for no competition points that season

    Match fixing indiviual/s : life ban

    Match fixing club : no licence in there respective code

    Drug cheats are easy to get over(club moves on, new player comes through), the one's that should not be tolerated are the match fixers.
     
  13. SeaEagleRock8

    SeaEagleRock8 Sea Eagle Lach Staff Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Whoever is guilty should get bigger, faster, and stronger. If not, they definitely should get their money back.
     
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  14. Dan

    Dan Administrator Staff Member Administrator 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Speculation probably isn't healthy and I am sure we will find our opinions posted soon in papers etc.

    i might do up a bit of an article on my thoughts though
     
  15. MK Eagle

    MK Eagle Well-Known Member

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    As professional sportsmen, you would hope NRL players know what they are taking & if they are legal or not.
    The question for mine is that every club has their own dieticians, trainers ect who are hired as professionals in their respective fields to help the players obtain peak performance.
    If the player is told this new substance is safe & legal by ppl of this standing within the club, not many would take it to a detective to have it cleared.
    However, if players are taking illegal substances outside of the club knowing full well its wrong, the situation changes completely & whether its a Manly player or not, needs to be dealt with consistently & accordingly.
    However, not buying into the predictable Seaeagles guilty before innocent stories, the reason why is 0% success rate to date & most likely to stay that way....
     
  16. Stevo

    Stevo Well-Known Member

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    Also, don't be too jumpy if you discover a Manly player has used peptides. There are legal and illegal varieties. Obviously the ones that release substances similar to growth hormone are illegal. But others are on the same level as everyday sports nutritional supps like protein and creatine.

    The funny thing is that some varieties are not banned substances but are not approved for human use. So what he's been doing may be highly unethical but not illegal for a player to use. Go figure.
     
  17. globaleagle

    globaleagle Où est mon chapeau Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    I did not have sexual relations with that woman as she was real ugly. Anyone saying they did is either blind, desperate, or both!!!
     
  18. Stevo

    Stevo Well-Known Member

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  19. lloydy

    lloydy Active Member

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    I would have to spend winters weekends with my wife and kids if Manly were found guilty.....
     
  20. Shoe1

    Shoe1 Well-Known Member

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    What about polypeptides? Anyone remember year 8 science?
     
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