[Resurrected] DCE is the worst halfback in the NRL

[Pete W]

Brooks was disappointing. I can't understand why DCE cops criticism when we need more from our five eighth.

It's not that hard to understand

 

[Terry Zarsoff]

So you want Brookes, on far less coin, to come in and do what DCE refuses to? You want to blame Brooke’s for Manly’s performances and give DCE further free passes and no scrutiny….

Look, I think it’s fair to question Brooke’s and scrutinise his performances. I think he’s been reasonably sound with a few poor moments…. But compared to our saviour, DCE, no comparison in the disappointment stakes, IMO.

His surname is ‘Brooks’. Not ‘Brookes’ or ‘Brooke’.

 

[master blaster]

Past his best implies he was better in previous seasons, and with the exception of maybe a handful of games last season, what we've seen these last weeks is exactly what we've been seeing for a decade now. It's just for some odd reason, our expectations are higher this season - some even claiming a 'premiership window' because of a couple of early season scalps and a flashy pre-season documentary.

Last night was a night an experienced 300+ game halfback, captain of qld, etc etc etc... would take control and prove his worth. These are the games he is supposed to dominate and stamp his authority on much younger and less experienced playmakers. He was poor.

Outplayed again by a younger opponent and I think he has his mind of SOO, that seems to be the only time he bleeds for the Maroon jersey

 

[mickqld]

Outplayed again by a younger opponent and I think he has his mind of SOO, that seems to be the only time he bleeds for the Maroon jersey

In self preservation mode more than usual. Fatty was virtually screaming for both of them to take charge, run the ball , put some doubt on the donkies defense. All we did was 5 hit ups and an ineffective kick. Brooks just shuffling the ball to marked runners. DCE doing the same. This is what they're being coached ??? Fuk me we are so predictable no wonder they're losers.

 

[bob dylan]

What disappoints me most is DCE plays really well for QLD 90% of the time.

Maybe its playing behind a good pack as opposed to or pop gun pack, which has been pretty good this year.

 

[KNUCKLES]

What disappoints me most is DCE plays really well for QLD 90% of the time.

Maybe its playing behind a good pack as opposed to or pop gun pack, which has been pretty good this year.

Luckily for chez state of origin doesn't have a salary cap. He plays well for QLD but in my opinion I don't think he has ever really been the difference for them.

 

[bob dylan]

Luckily for chez state of origin doesn't have a salary cap. He plays well for QLD but in my opinion I don't think he has ever really been the difference for them.

The one he got MOM when covid was on was as good as anything Johns or Lewis ever produced.

 

[jbb/james]

It seemed pretty clear to me that brooks started at 7 last night. The first half in particular he played first receiver on both sides of the ruck and directed play. DCE just caught, passed and kicked. Very little else

Less evident in the second half

While seibs is toying with the roles its clear we lack direction in the halves and he also knows it.

Does seibs results give him the power or safety to drop the chez. The media backlash would be huge. Despite how poor he can play his popularity would ensure tears/ anger in primary schools and on ST. And of course the fallout and finger pointing at players that caused chezs demise, hooker, 6, forwards coach, albo, and rainbow apparel

Seibs is coming to crunch time in his own contract. Somethings gotta give soon because we are going to be losing next week too id suggest

 

[The Who]

It's not that hard to understand

Name one other halfback in history who has ever played as many First Grade matches, and is as resilient?
DCE is a champion. It seems the knockers expect him to be perfect.
One thing I know about DCE is that he'll be in the team next week -- how are the other feted halfbacks going on the injury front? -- and he'll be backing up half-breaks and running hard at the end of the 80 minutes.

 

[jbb/james]

Name one other halfback in history who has ever played as many First Grade matches, and is as resilient?
DCE is a champion. It seems the knockers expect him to be perfect.
One thing I know about DCE is that he'll be in the team next week -- how are the other feted halfbacks going on the injury front? -- and he'll be backing up half-breaks and running hard at the end of the 80 minutes.

I think this point is part if the DCE divide

While no one can doubt he is a bit if a genetic freak, with a very impressive aerobic ceiling and physically resilient There is another thought that his game is built on self preservation , which is a huge downside for the position he plays and a major reason for our touch footy / bazball approach and subsequent success rate

Jason Taylor is another half who played a huge ammount of games consecutively and was also a similar frame but he rately got tackled or used his shoulder in Defence either. The dessies hasler style pat down defence, seems to keep you on top of the tackler more but you yield more ground

 

[Pete W]

Name one other halfback in history who has ever played as many First Grade matches, and is as resilient?
DCE is a champion. It seems the knockers expect him to be perfect.
One thing I know about DCE is that he'll be in the team next week -- how are the other feted halfbacks going on the injury front? -- and he'll be backing up half-breaks and running hard at the end of the 80 minutes.

Lol you speak of being injury free as if this is something good that DCE is doing that others somehow aren't. It's really simple, the reason he has many games, and doesn't have injury issues is...wait for it... he doesn't take the line on. He avoids the tackle at all costs!

He doesn't play direct, and has always stuffed up his runners around him. Always lets his teammates take the hits for him. His priority is Daly. He's a terrible leader and a below average game manager.

But yes, backing up half breaks is a good investment. Kick metres too. Maximum return for minimum investment - scores really high in fantasy points, and most journos look at these types of numbers to paint a picture without actually understanding the game. Make no mistake, DCE is highly intelligent and ambitious, and understands personal accolades more than anything else. If you don't see this, you haven't been paying attention.

 

[mave]

Should have forced a move to #9 years ago.....no hiding in the middle.

 

[Pete W]

Should have forced a move to #9 years ago.....no hiding in the middle.

Absolutely. He would have been a great 9. It would have accentuated his strengths, and all but eliminated his weaknesses.

 

[jbb/james]

Ive wanted him at 9 as much as you guys but my main interest was getting him away from 7, despite his attacking weapons from dummy half

No way he is our 9 now if he transitioned years ago. He would be retired but his desire to avoid contact at 7 would be a bigger issue at 9. Cant play him in the middle. Not even sure if he has shoulders. He tackles in the middle like he is trying to put a burning man out

14 once the heat goes out of the game would be better suited now

 

[KNUCKLES]

The one he got MOM when covid was on was as good as anything Johns or Lewis ever produced.

Oh I don't know about that.. thats a big call

 

[Technical Coach]

Yesterday was a more controlled measured performance in part helped by the limitations of a heavy wet track(that worked against us) but also was more measured and controlled in it's general approach.(maybe overly so)

The real big positive is Manly stayed in the grind, could have easily let the game be blown away at 12-0 and the effort defensively was good to see.(even against an average performing Brisbane side)

In my eyes performance wise Brooks has exceeded expectations, i would have him more playing as a central half linking with the edges and scheming and taking on a tired middle but in saying that i don't think he has done too bad in the way Seibold has used him. It's hard to use him more centrally when we are lacking another genuine ballplaying option in the squad so we can have a left and right option and Brooks.

The problem is how Manly structure their attack, with too much emphasis in the attacking half of playing to our spread plays with not enough structured set ups be it runners, short passing through the forwards or genuine decoys through the middle. DCE and Brooks need to centralize more and play shorter off the dummy half which at times in the Brisbane game was evident to see but the wet track didn't really work in our favour.

Manly need to improve their try output and structured passing through the forwards if we want our elaborate spreads to have consistent impact that is less under pressure by well studied defensive lines. I like at times how the Warriors forwards attack around or near the posts to try and compress the defensive line-----sure they are inconsistent as a team but in this area i think Manly need to look into more to take the focus off the opposition being able to slide hard an early on our spreads flooding with numbers or just eyeing off where Tom is and rushing in and applying pressure that results in many drop balls.

Damn i love seeing Tolu run with the ball even off kick returns, football speed and light quick footwork you feel there is always a chance to break the line----this will be more evident on dry tracks and fast game play with early spreads.

My preferred makeup of the squad would be Brooks playing centrally, DCE on the right and Tom playing a mixed Centre 5/8 role on the left(working off back rowers hitting lines when in ballplaying mode) then out the back to Tolu, while at other times just playing conservative and running or hitting lines as a centre.

That stats link earlier in the thread really is pointless, anyone with half an eye watching a game with some head space left over can see all that and more, it tells you what you already know, the good coaches know how to fix the issues or work around it.

Our spreads in our own half obviously will have less dropped ball as it is mostly second man plays with depth to generate go forward---the higher risk more elaborate spreads and flatter come off DCE's side, the more controlled typical spreads on the left side. The higher percentage of dropped balls in the opposing half will naturally come as the focus goes from "spreading for yardage" to "spreading to score" or create a try scoring opportunity, with less go forward momentum prior to the play and higher risk or more skilled related ball playing on offer right at the defensive line that is trying to read and scuffle the play not back off and just allow the play to unfold.

Such stats are made for Coaches who don't really want to take in the game and want a snap shot researched for them to come to training with so they can sit on their ar$e and be depressed watching Netflix all day or fall asleep at Maccas.

 

[Pete W]

Yesterday was a more controlled measured performance in part helped by the limitations of a heavy wet track(that worked against us) but also was more measured and controlled in it's general approach.(maybe overly so)

The real big positive is Manly stayed in the grind, could have easily let the game be blown away at 12-0 and the effort defensively was good to see.(even against an average performing Brisbane side)

In my eyes performance wise Brooks has exceeded expectations, i would have him more playing as a central half linking with the edges and scheming and taking on a tired middle but in saying that i don't think he has done too bad in the way Seibold has used him. It's hard to use him more centrally when we are lacking another genuine ballplaying option in the squad so we can have a left and right option and Brooks.

The problem is how Manly structure their attack, with too much emphasis in the attacking half of playing to our spread plays with not enough structured set ups be it runners, short passing through the forwards or genuine decoys through the middle. DCE and Brooks need to centralize more and play shorter off the dummy half which at times in the Brisbane game was evident to see but the wet track didn't really work in our favour.

Manly need to improve their try output and structured passing through the forwards if we want our elaborate spreads to have consistent impact that is less under pressure by well studied defensive lines. I like at times how the Warriors forwards attack around or near the posts to try and compress the defensive line-----sure they are inconsistent as a team but in this area i think Manly need to look into more to take the focus off the opposition being able to slide hard an early on our spreads flooding with numbers or just eyeing off where Tom is and rushing in and applying pressure that results in many drop balls.

Damn i love seeing Tolu run with the ball even off kick returns, football speed and light quick footwork you feel there is always a chance to break the line----this will be more evident on dry tracks and fast game play with early spreads.

My preferred makeup of the squad would be Brooks playing centrally, DCE on the right and Tom playing a mixed Centre 5/8 role on the left(working off back rowers hitting lines when in ballplaying mode) then out the back to Tolu, while at other times just playing conservative and running or hitting lines as a centre.

That stats link earlier in the thread really is pointless, anyone with half an eye watching a game with some head space left over can see all that and more, it tells you what you already know, the good coaches know how to fix the issues or work around it.

Our spreads in our own half obviously will have less dropped ball as it is mostly second man plays with depth to generate go forward---the higher risk more elaborate spreads and flatter come off DCE's side, the more controlled typical spreads on the left side. The higher percentage of dropped balls in the opposing half will naturally come as the focus goes from "spreading for yardage" to "spreading to score" or create a try scoring opportunity, with less go forward momentum prior to the play and higher risk or more skilled related ball playing on offer right at the defensive line that is trying to read and scuffle the play not back off and just allow the play to unfold.

Such stats are made for Coaches who don't really want to take in the game and want a snap shot researched for them to come to training with so they can sit on their ar$e and be depressed watching Netflix all day or fall asleep at Maccas.

Really like your suggested roles for Turbo and Brooks in particular

 

[Technical Coach]

To me from day one i mentioned Tom is more a straight up and down player lacking light footwork and a turn of speed(that is not the same as just general speed)to offer a wider variety of danger points to his game from the back and less prone to being read in a way for direct tackling techniques.

Slater, Papi, Hunt,Karmichael Hunt, Barba, Tedesco(to a lesser extent), Hayne, Matty Bowen,Tuivasa Sheck etc tend to have footwork with a nice turn of speed, this is not to say other fullbacks with a different mix of attributes can't dominate or succeed just that it is a nice attribute to have floating in from the back or picking and slicing your way through.

It would be difficult to get the balance of Tom playing like a centre then mixing it up as a 5/8 and would need an off season to gel it in. You have to have mobile back rowers to offer the line running dangers when Tom is ballplaying, also it might be a case of the early stages of each half or even the entire first half playing as a conventional centre then as fatigue enters the game allowing more ballplaying latitude to come into play.

Lockyer did the transition and was the captain and i think Karmichael Hunt came in at fullback, i still worry physically(injury wise) if Tom is up to it though. For now this year and next year would offer a nice transition period in centre 5/8 mode(J.Lyon offered a touch of 5/8 during his centre years but in a minor way before playing as a 5/8) then it might end up being Brooks and Tom in the halves and we have a ballplaying backrower on the right to take over DCE like G.Stewart.(but more mobile)

Manly looked the most dangerous in recent times when we had a fit and firing Foran,Walker and DCE as ball playing options on each side and centrally.

We lack forward mobility and an extra ball playing option to take our game to another level right now, so if Tom can take on that role for the left side we get the benefit of an extra ballplayer and a light footed speedy fullback in one hit

 

[KNUCKLES]

Turbo ain't a 5/8th.

Firstly, he is too large.

Secondly, he doesn't have the best passing game.

Thirdly, his kicking game is quite bad.

 

[HoldenV8]

I'm far from DCE biggest fan...I've sent myself mad yelling at him to think about what he's doing and not just free wheel it......

Today I can't knock him.. he played a controlled game where the object was to build pressure rather than try and hail mary tries with hero plays and it nearly worked.

Tonight was more how DCE plays for QLD. Credit where it's due....just did his job and cut out the Miracle plays. It wasn't enough but we looked more like.a footy team tonight. No knocks from me ( this time) for once

Well, as much as I'm a DCE fan, I can call a spade a spade and knock him after last night's performance.

Last night was extremely pi$$ poor game management from someone who has played 316 first grade games, 22 Origins and 21 tests. With 10 seconds left on the clock and the team only one point down, instead of demanding the ball our captain, halfback and chief playmaker just stood there and let Olakau'atu get the ball for a nothing hit up that ran out the clock.

ZERO urgency to get the ball with 10 seconds left. Zero, none.

Mind you with just 27 first grade games to his credit his opposite was cool under no pressure kicking the field goal.....

Oh, and don't get me started about the Paseka "knock-on" that the replay showed was clearly knocked out by Brisbane that our captain decided NOT to challenge. Even the commentators said it was a one look challenge that Manly would have won. But nothing, not a damn thing.

In the past 3 weeks, DCE's game management has gone out the window.